The Big Bang Theory

[danger mouse 0]

your not going to believe this . playing background music after about an hour bang, no cd player, light controller, sound enhancer, mixer, etc , changed the extension lead thinking it was that and it wasnt.no ! gear had blown, think it was a spike or something , even broke some lights and they werent even swithed on ,just pluged in. club got an electrician in as lights and other things were going off and on even without my gear plugged in. did a quick test as said there was a positive on the negative and could be a vault with the polarity in the fuse board and would have to check it out mon, (club closed down ) they had rcd trip sockets on the stage so dont see how it could be my gear , any one have any theorys as they took out £800 of gear which is in for repair (i checked the fuses in the plugs on each piece of gear and no joy) any one enlighten me without confusssing me with sience?

Edited September 9, 2007 by danger mouse

[Andy Westcott 0]

Lightning strike?

I can't think of anything else that would do so much damage.

 

Reversed polarity might have been co-incidental, but potentially dangerous.

[danger mouse 0]

i know the original electrics in the place are well old although they have updated some, i know they have installed new coolers, mayebe a fault on one? what you think i should do next? dont think it was lighting , was a clear night that night, all i want is evidence that the club blew my gear , if i had a dodgy extension lead surley that would not have blown my stuff or made the club have a positive negative in the fuse board should have just tripped the rcd , let me know electric minded people,

[danger mouse 0]

i know the original electrics in the place are well old although they have updated some, i know they have installed new coolers, mayebe a fault on one? what you think i should do next? dont think it was lighting , was a clear night that night, all i want is evidence that the club blew my gear , if i had a dodgy extension lead surley that would not have blown my stuff or made the club have a positive negative in the fuse board should have just tripped the rcd , let me know electric minded people,

checked my leads all ok (wires/ fuses) ran some things through them with a rcd at home and they are fine .no trips

[Paul Smith 0]

My theory is that something has caused a rather large spike in the mains and because the polarity was reversed at the fusebox the protection (fuses etc) in your equipment and leads was on the wrong side :shrug:

[Andy Westcott 0]

Initiate a claim from the club's insurance.

 

There is no way any of your gear can produce a spike large enough to cause the damage you describe. Therefore your clain lies either with the club, where you can prove the electrical installation was faulty anyhow, or the electricity distribution company.

 

A solicitor may be able to advise you which avenue to persue.

[High Fidelity 0]

Sorry to hear about your gear and hope it all gets sorted out Ok for you.

 

There's a valuable lesson for us all here.

 

I carry a socket tester in the cables bag, but never bother using it before I plug my gear in.

 

But I will be doing in future.

[TonyB 0]

I always use a surge protector for the audio bits. I wonder if that would of protected the equipment. Think I'll get one for the lights too.

[Dream Catchers 0]

Presumably the club will have loads of equipment that got zapped too, all their cash registers, alarm system, computers, etc....!

It will be full of gear that would have also got damaged if the fault was somewhere on the mains.

 

Jim

[jeffwall 0]

Firstly the venue by law has to have a Elecrical periodic inspection report in force....

 

Therefore if they have reversed polarity, this has to have been found previously surely??

 

If its not been found....then either the venue has not had a recent inspection....OR the electrician has inspected but not found....OR...somebody has reversed it lately and no inspection has been made since

 

Reverse polarity is dangourous and is bang out of order!

 

I notice you said your lights blew....but were not switched on!!............This tells me that the reverse polarity is a defo!

 

The switch on your lights will only be in line with the LIVE conductor.....so if the venue has reversed polarity problem, the switch on your lights will only break the NEUTRAL condutor, therefore leaving the lights in a "LIVE" state even when turned off!

 

This is precisely why periodic inspections are supposed to be carried out and polarity checks is number 1 on the check list!!

 

Why your gear has blown is a mystery at the moment, perhaps the repairist can tell you what the damage was, therefore will give you an idea if over voltage was the cause?

 

Go back to the venue, plug in a martindale, and take a photograph of the polarity warning lights

 

Then approach the venue managers and ask for your repair bill to be taken care of......

 

If no Joy, go and see a solicitor with your polarity tester photo, try and get it witnessed if you can.

 

Failing that ask them for a periodic inspection report copy to see if the venue "passed"

 

Bet they didnt!

 

Was it a council property owned venue by any chance? If so, I very much doubt they have not had an inspection report done lately, as council propertys are usually up to scratch.

 

But all the same, public use buildings should be up to scratch with the electrical system

 

You could employ an electrician to go and inspect the particular sockets that you used, try to keepit low key, just say a friend is gunna look at the sockets.

 

Ask the sparky to write a report or letter of his findings

 

Just some ideas there, hope you get it sorted

 

Edited September 9, 2007 by jeffwall

[Dream Catchers 0]

The switch on your lights will only be in line with the LIVE conductor.....so if the venue has reversed polarity problem, the switch on your lights will only break the NEUTRAL condutor, therefore leaving the lights in a "LIVE" state even when turned off!

Even if the lights are switched off with the neutral it still breaks the circuit so they still would not be affected.

It is of course still lethal because if changing lamps etc you will get a shock because the lamp is live and you will be earthed.

 

Jim

 

[danger mouse 0]

cheers boys for the info one of the lights was a brand new dynamo scanner ,all checked the night before , now only the motor and gobo wheel works although i changed the bulb, my other scanner blew just a bulb,njd chaos blown bulb and my funky double would only light up without the motor running , tried it at home and it worked fine! weird. after it all went bang i changed the mixer and extention lead and got it working off another socket at a different point then 1 hour later the mixer blew but some of the lights were still working , the electrician put a test on the negatives in one of the fuse boards and said it had 240 on it ,? hes coming in i think mon for full test, i have his number . im fuming! theyve just had like i said a load of new beer coolers fitted in the venue. its a private conservative social club run by committe. And yes most of the lights blew but were not running just plugged into a now(broken) light controller with iec leads to it. each channel of the light controller has its own fuse too, oh and yes the till went down, ladies toilets his par cans , and the rcds on stage would not come on. even his par cans when they were switched off with other things switched on were glowing dull ,

Edited September 9, 2007 by danger mouse

[BigBen 0]

I know nothing about electricity but I was thrown in at the deep end some time ago at work when we had serious electrical problems...

 

Our office is out in the sticks so we are supplied via poles. A car crashed into one of the tension wires that holds the first pole and it broke so the pole was able to sway around. For a while the lights at work would glow incredibly bright before dimming. Nobody knew about the car so nothing was done.

 

Eventually, so I am told, the wires on the pole touched and thousands of volts were sent up the earth cable. Even with our hellishly expensive lightning protectors built into the supply board, we lost thousands of pounds worth of gear - PC's, printers, laptops, UPS's, TV's, video's and the CCTV system. Strangely, some gear on a circuit would be wrecked whilst other gear, on the same circuit, was fine - the CCTV system was all on one circuit yet some camera's blew whilst others didn't.

 

Anyway, we sued, successfully, the car drivers insurance company for about £25k.

 

Someone somewhere is to blame and it's my guess the club will be looking to sue somebody too. Do your homework, get your photographs and keep all your evidence.

[superstardeejay 0]

When he said he found a positive on the negative (??) he probably said something like he found live voltage on the neutral..is this more like it?

 

This symptom is a fault of three-phase installations where a neutral conductor feeding a 3-phase board can work loose or overheat causing more than 240V to appear on certain 13A sockets and less than 240V on others..hence a bang if you're on the faulty phase. The venue insurance will hopefully cover it.

 

 

 

[jeffwall 0]

Fluppin heck Just sussed your problem

 

You have had 415 accross your stuff!!

 

If 240v was detected on the Neutral bar inside the 3phase distribution board....This means that the neutral connection at the main/souce has "Gone"

 

This would therefore allow one circuit on one of the phases to produce 240 v on the neutral bar

 

If your using a diffrent phase (likely you are!!) you have 240v on the live wire at one phase and 240 on the neutral (another phase) Giving 2 phases accross your gear!! 415V!

 

The gear has done well to survive that really

 

The venue is liable here without a doubt!! The neutral terminal should be safe guarded not to allow this to happen.

 

Also the electrician involved here should have shut it all down until the lost neutral has been found! 415v on 240v sockets is deadly and needs looking at straight away

Edited September 17, 2007 by jeffwall

[otronics 0]

So lesson here is to check the socket(s) you use with a multimeter before using them to check if they are 240v.........would a multimeter work in this situation....?

 

I use an ENL tester too but will be doing this too...if not just as a general check.

[danger mouse 0]

sounds like what happened ,had my stuff back from repair shop said it is unrepairable, transformers in the gear blown, they were more interested where i bought it from (wasnt them) so didnt seem too bothered , got them to say on invoice over voltage cause of damage . going to sort the club out this weeek ill keep you posted.

[brianmole 0]

Ouch! Nasty! Are you a member of the MU? They may be able to offer legal help.

 

Firstly the venue by law has to have a Elecrical periodic inspection report in force....

 

I think mobile DJ's should be able to ask to see these documents before they plug into a venue's supply in the same way they get asked for evidence of PLI & PAT. In my day job, when we do an install, it's part of the pre-requisites of the installation - no certificate means no install.

 

I ask to see the electrical installation docs for marquees now BTW...

[danger mouse 0]

Ouch! Nasty! Are you a member of the MU? They may be able to offer legal help.

I think mobile DJ's should be able to ask to see these documents before they plug into a venue's supply in the same way they get asked for evidence of PLI & PAT. In my day job, when we do an install, it's part of the pre-requisites of the installation - no certificate means no install.

 

I ask to see the electrical installation docs for marquees now BTW...

hi went back to the venue after being told it was pretty much sorted by the electrician (few minor things left ) plugged a serge protector in on an extension and boom., big time , fused everything ,surge is black and melted inside (big time) )it saved my lead though, all this off a socket that was not on the stage but in another part of the room , just thought id test it before i got to the stage, have a wedding there tomorrow , need another surge protector now , wonder if the stage is on another circuit , what you think ,

[Dream Catchers 0]

hi went back to the venue after being told it was pretty much sorted by the electrician (few minor things left ) plugged a serge protector in on an extension and boom., big time , fused everything ,surge is black and melted inside (big time) )it saved my lead though, all this off a socket that was not on the stage but in another part of the room , just thought id test it before i got to the stage, have a wedding there tomorrow , need another surge protector now , wonder if the stage is on another circuit , what you think ,

I think I'd be hiring a genny.

 

Jim

[danger mouse 0]

they dear to hire? , already billed the club £850 for damaged gear that the local disco shop said was no good (blown transformers not woth repairing) one thing already fixed by another shop for £40

[danger mouse 0]

they dear to hire? , already billed the club £850 for damaged gear that the local disco shop said was no good (blown transformers not woth repairing) one thing already fixed by another shop for £40

by the way not a member of mu, bought a serge protector from maplins,(£6) plugged it in and the place cooked it big time, got the electrician back ,disconeccted the socket and used another socket in a diiferent part of the club ,got a new serge too, that worked fine and stopped the extension lead from blowing, think its a one time deal though you wana see the inside of it , completley charred .

[otronics 0]

This is utterly unsafe, not accectable at all and simply should just not occur!

 

Did they accecpt the bill OK?

 

Pictures of the extension lead...

 

I think we, as DJs should:

 

1) Use ENL testers

2) Use voltmeters

3) Plug an extension, and turn on the supply without anything connected to see if it is, er stable!

 

Brian has a good point too above.

[danger mouse 0]

they accepted the bill ok , said they would sort it out but i know the club has financial dificulties so im hoping they sort it out with their insurance soon , or pay me cash .Gave them a breakdown of the gear with the shop estimate along with the websites where it can be purchased so they have everything they need.let you know what happenes as i need the gear before my own big do on 27 oct, using back up stuff at the mo

[Mattaious 0]

they accepted the bill ok , said they would sort it out but i know the club has financial dificulties so im hoping they sort it out with their insurance soon , or pay me cash .Gave them a breakdown of the gear with the shop estimate along with the websites where it can be purchased so they have everything they need.let you know what happenes as i need the gear before my own big do on 27 oct, using back up stuff at the mo

 

 

Did you get it all sorted out chap?