mattshields 0 Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Could someone please explain DMX's to me, like from the basics, all i can find is technical explanations, which are no good to me at the mo..http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/wallbash.gif http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/533.gif stuff i would like to know, are things like: what do the lights plug into, using what leads and connections.... and the different stages of rigging par cans to a desk, etc.. this would be really helpful http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/thanks.gif Link to post Share on other sites
Gary 0 Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 (edited) QUOTE (mattshields @ Jan 16 2006, 08:47 PM) stuff i would like to know, are things like: what do the lights plug into, using what leads and connections.... and the different stages of rigging par cans to a desk, etc.. this would be really helpful http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/thanks.gif Righty-ho! DMX is a control language for lighting. In basic terms each DMX light that you have, would be powered "ON" throughout the show, unlike conventional lighting which you'd usually switch off and on as you needed it through the show. Each DMX light unit would have an IN connector and an OUT connector for the DMX control/Data signal. The idea is that you run one lead from the DMX controller to the first light fitting, then run a short lead from the first light fitting to the second one, and so on, so each of the DMX lights are "daisy-chained" to the DMX fitting next to it - rather than each DMX light having a long lead running back to a controller. These IN and OUT connectors are usually 3 Pin XLR plugs - looking rather annoyingly like microphone connectors. Each light fitting will have a Male (plug) and a Female (Socket) connector on it. The Controller will usually only have 1 connector on it - so, its always best to start wiring from the (powered off) controller, OUT to the first DMX light, then onto the second DMX light etc, rather than working from the other end, toward the controller - I did this once and ended up with the wrong Male/female end left by the time I reached the controller. Two elements of confusion, and/or frustration here, regarding the DMX connectors, are: 1) Different companies like to use different wiring configurations for their 3 pins - in particular which pin is the "Data +" and "Data -"(minus) pins. 2) Some companies like to use 5 pin XLRs, rather than 3 Pin XLRs. For some companies there is a good (although normally non-standard) reason offered for using the 5 pin versions, for other companies, there isnt. With regard to your question about Par Cans, if you mean the "traditional" par can with just one big old bulb in it, then you'd need a DMX dimmer pack. If you're looking at running 4 Par cans, then you'll need a 4 channel DMX dimmer pack. At this point, you get into whats covered in this DMX thread: DMX Addressing Edited January 17, 2006 by Gary Link to post Share on other sites
NiM 0 Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 QUOTE (Gary @ Jan 17 2006, 11:19 AM) Some companies like to use 5 pin XLRs, rather than 3 Pin XLRs. For some companies there is a good (although normally non-standard) reason offered for using the 5 pin versions, for other companies, there isnt. But 5 pin xlr is the standard not the 3 pin, so anyone that whacks a 3 pin in their fixture is going against the DMX512 standard.. linky NiM Link to post Share on other sites
DJ Dicky 0 Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 You beat me to it NiM. The pin out of a 5 pin XLR is defined in the spec so most of the problems where the Data + and Data - pins are swapped are on three pin connectors that are not controlled under the spec anyway. Dicky DMX help and support Great prices on class-d speaker systems Link to post Share on other sites
Gary 0 Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 There we go you see, I said that the two different types of XLR led to confusion. Maybe the more "mobile-friendly" products have gone for 3 pin XLR as its much easier to find a 3 pin XLR than a 5 pin XLR in stores (at the moment). Link to post Share on other sites
mattshields 0 Posted January 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 thanks a lot, that makes everything a whole lot clearer...http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/thumbup.gif one other thing....how do IEC socketed lights and par cans work with DMX? is there something in the middle like another piece of hardware that the IEC cables plug into? then into the DMX controller? thanks once again Link to post Share on other sites
Gary 0 Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 QUOTE (mattshields @ Jan 17 2006, 05:46 PM) thanks a lot, that makes everything a whole lot clearer...http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/thumbup.gif one other thing....how do IEC socketed lights and par cans work with DMX? is there something in the middle like another piece of hardware that the IEC cables plug into? then into the DMX controller? thanks once again Yes! http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/thumbup.gif On many DMX dimmer packs, there are IEC sockets, one for each channel, which you would plug your par cans into. The DMX dimmer pack could typically be mounted close to the par cans, and a single power lead run down from the DMX dimmer to a wall socket. A DMX data lead also runs down from the DMX dimmer pack, and runs to the DMX controller. Link to post Share on other sites
superstardeejay 0 Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 QUOTE - I did this once and ended up with the wrong Male/female end left by the time I reached the controller. I wish I'd been there http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/laugh.gif . Link to post Share on other sites
YourBigEvent 0 Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 QUOTE I did this once and ended up with the wrong Male/female end left by the time I reached the controller. Do you not carry any gender benders in your toolbox ? .....but what do I know ? Your Big Event Office:01803 813540 Direct: 0797 0717 448 e.mail:info@yourbigevent.co.uk Link to post Share on other sites
Gary 0 Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 QUOTE (ADS Entertainments @ Jan 17 2006, 10:29 PM) QUOTE I did this once and ended up with the wrong Male/female end left by the time I reached the controller. Do you not carry any gender benders in your toolbox ? Didn't have xlr gender bender in my toolbox back then...I only hired 8 x dmx discharge scanners as the venue was huge. Luckily all 8 units were only hung at about 3 ft off the stage sono ladder needed to rewire them. Link to post Share on other sites
mattshields 0 Posted January 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 QUOTE (Gary @ Jan 17 2006, 09:01 PM) On many DMX dimmer packs, there are IEC sockets, one for each channel, which you would plug your par cans into. The DMX dimmer pack could typically be mounted close to the par cans, and a single power lead run down from the DMX dimmer to a wall socket. A DMX data lead also runs down from the DMX dimmer pack, and runs to the DMX controller. Any suggestions for good DMX Dimmer Packs that have this capability....im working to a budget lol, if that helps...i want something that will basically do the job. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/thanks.gif Link to post Share on other sites
Gary 0 Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 QUOTE (mattshields @ Jan 18 2006, 05:25 PM) Any suggestions for good DMX Dimmer Packs that have this capability....im working to a budget lol, if that helps...i want something that will basically do the job. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/thanks.gif I'm gradually working my way up to 4 of the Soundlab 4 channel DMX Dimmer packs. As seen here. They're about £60 each but remember you can run more than one lamp on each channel, depending on each lamps wattages. What I especially like about these is that there are also a few built-in chase patterns - including a soft crossfading pattern, so, if your DMX controller gets a beer tipped over it, or you want to use the lights without DMX control, one dip switch flick later, you'll have flashing/fading lights again. Link to post Share on other sites
superstardeejay 0 Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 Dont forget that you may want switch-packs rather than Dimmer packs if you have any sound-to-light effects, these dont always take kindly to being dimmed (blown motor windings can result etc). The switch packs respond to the DMX channels by, for example, switching off for values 0-50% and on for values 51-100% etc. When you choose a dimmer or switch pack look for external accessible fuseholders as a blown lamp will often cause the fuse to blow and you dont want to have to strip the damn thing down just to change a fuse. Sounds daft, but those awkward types are indeed out there. Some dimmer packs also have filament pre-heats, may be useful if you're only using PAR cans as it prevents thermal shock when you're flashing them, prolonging lamp life. My favourite are the Pulsar, Anytronics, Zero88 or Multiform, all quality UK brands mind you so they're not the cheapest. Some of the far-eastern brands are a pain especially if you blow a triac, thats sometimes a major engineering feat. Buy the best you can afford!! Most nightclub installers will use the UK types I mentioned, there are others eg Avolites, ETC, ADB-Siemens & Strand but they're mega bucks. . Link to post Share on other sites
mattshields 0 Posted January 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 (edited) SEE BUYING EQUIPMENT SECTION PLEASE http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/thanks.gif Edited January 20, 2006 by mattshields Link to post Share on other sites
MatDJ 0 Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Hi, I have this quote for a dmx controller: QUOTE Stairville DMX-Master I, CONTROLLER, DMX operator, 8channel mixer console with ever 2 banks, 16 channels perfixture, 30 banks of 8 programmable scenes for total of240 scenes, DMX 192 channels control, programmable scenesand chasers, 19 " DMX Output: 3 pin female XLR, Size 19in. x 5,25 in. x3 in, Weight:2,3 kg, Attention ! MIDI I/Ois not yet supported by the software. what does the scene stuff mean? 1)what are ever 2 banks?? 2)30 banks of 8 programmable secnes? 3) 240 scenes? all help greatfully recieved Matt http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/smile.gif Link to post Share on other sites
Hoseman-ade 0 Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Hi Matt, I am just getting my head around this as well, the way I see it is as follows........ 30 banks of 8 programmable secnes?....what this means is that you have banks 1 to 30, in each bank you can store 8 scenes under buttons 1 to 8...hence 240 scenes!!! A scene is a snapshot of the position of your lights. so.... if you had 2 scanners on red and pointing at the ceiling showing a hand gobo, that is one scene and would be stored in number one positon of the first bank of 8. If you now changed the position of the scanners to show green gobos on the floor area, that would be stored as scene 2 in the first bank. and so on until you had filled all 8 buttons, now if you wanted to add more "scenes" as the first 1 - 8 is full you would select bank 2 which then would have another 1 - 8 ready to fill up http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/smile.gif Its taking me a while but moving on from that, you then add "scenes" together to form a "chase", a chase is just a group of "scenes" that the controller works through in a cycle. so if you added scenes 1 - 8 from bank 1 together and saved it under "chase" number 1, your lights would go through the 8 snapshots (scenes) to form the show Well thats the way I am doing it but I am a DMX virgin compared to some on here but it was time I took the plunge to make a nice lightshow http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/thumbup.gif Cheers Ade Inferno Roadshow Link to post Share on other sites
Gary 0 Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 A good explanation of Scenes there by Hoseman Ade. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/notworthy.gif Remember too that a single "snapshot" scene doesn't have to mean there's no movement... as you may know already, DMX effects all work on receiving numbers between 0 & 255 from the controller to each of the channels (actions/features) on the lighting effect. Now, if one of a lights channels is "gobo rotation direction and speed" its common for value 127 to be "not moving either way", 128 being "clockwise rotation, very slowly, 126 being "anti-clockwise rotation, very slowly" and 255 being "top speed clockwise rotation" So, if one of your scenes sends value 200 to the gobo rotate channel, you'll have the gobo rotating clockwise, mediumly fast all the time that the controller is on that one scene. Link to post Share on other sites
YourBigEvent 0 Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Soundlab one here, but here.......... .....but what do I know ? Your Big Event Office:01803 813540 Direct: 0797 0717 448 e.mail:info@yourbigevent.co.uk Link to post Share on other sites
superstardeejay 0 Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 The Stairville (botex) unit mentioned is programmed scene-by-scene, in banks of 8. That means that you program each scene to one of eight buttons across the top of the panel. The entire 8 scenes are then called a bank, and can be run very simply and quickly in sequence just by selecting the appropriate bank of 8, the 8 scenes will keep repeating over and over at the speed set on the slider, or synchronised to music (built in mic) or manually tapped. When you've done 8, (saved to, say, bank 1), you can move to bank 2 and program another 8, to be recalled using those same 8 buttons across the top....and so on and so forth until all 8 scenes-by-30-banks have been stored (240 scenes in total). Thats pretty boring, as you have to manually select a bank of only 8 scenes to run in sequence. So... To make it more interesting, you can string any number of scenes, and any number of complete banks, in any order, scenes and banks mixed, any number of times, all together and store this under buttons called Chases. You have 8 chase buttons, you can put as few single scenes sequences as you want into a chase or you can make it really long and varied. Pressing the chase button will make its LED flash and it replays the lights at the speed set on the slider. And as if that weren't enough... You can build a SHOW out of Chases. Just press as many chase buttons as you want, it will run the chases in order from the lowest number to the highest, doing one complete chase before moving to the next. The active chase button will blink its LED and the other 'dormant' chases will wait their turn with steady LEDs. As you can see, the Stairville (Prolight/Showtec/Botex) controller as sold by Thomann is a really versatile thing, easy and fun (albeit lengthy) to program. Disadvantages with it are that the speed and fade time sliders are a little sensitive, a small movement makes alot of difference to the speed. They go from 0.01 seconds per scene to 30 seconds all on the one fader! I've had a few in for repair already with worn-out buttons, they seem to use rather cheap ones. They have a wall-wart power adapter. You cannot set individual speeds to sequences, they all replay at the same global speed set on the sliders. Recalling fixed scenes (eg floods, strobes etc) is fiddly if you're in a hurry because you have to first of all cancel a chase, knock it into manual, select your bank with up/down buttons then select your scene. Its easy to get your knickers in a twist in a live situation. Other than that, they're great! Lots of fun and as simple or complicated as you want them to be. . Link to post Share on other sites
superstardeejay 0 Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 QUOTE 1)what are ever 2 banks?? I think that's an error in translation. It refers to the fact that the controller can handle up to 16 channels per effect, but in 2 banks of 8 at a time, so if you have any large scanners or wonderful units that are indeed over 8 DMX channels each, (mostly high-end stuff, the sort of thing Gary would love) you have direct access to DMX channels 1-8 and a shift button to get 9-16. If you access the Prolight Concepts webpage, they have a nearly identical unit to the German Stairville and being an English company (Bolton) their details may make more sense. You should be able to get an owners manual download from someone like Highlite International though it will be in pidgeon-english too. If you email Highlite (showtec), they can mail you the manual over, they are unbelievably friendly. Prolight Concepts here Showtec page here Botex Original Equipment Manufacturing Hong Kong That last link is the manufacturer who does them for everyone else.. . Link to post Share on other sites
MatDJ 0 Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 wow thats made it all soo much clearer thank you soo much! cant wait to give it all a go! Matt http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif Link to post Share on other sites
NJD 0 Posted February 4, 2006 Report Share Posted February 4, 2006 QUOTE Any suggestions for good DMX Dimmer Packs that have this capability....im working to a budget lol, if that helps...i want something that will basically do the job. Just thought I'd mention we've just brought out a couple of DMX dimmer packs: 4-channel, 10Amps per channel, part code DPX4/10. There's a version with terminal blocks and one with IEC sockets, and M10 bushes on the back so it can be bolted to stands and truss. Easy access to fuses, and the triacs can be changed without soldering. Link to post Share on other sites
superstardeejay 0 Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 QUOTE Easy access to fuses, and the triacs can be changed without soldering Good, we supplied a DP10000X once to a customer who blew a triac. Changing it was like wrestling with old nick. . Link to post Share on other sites
Gary 0 Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 (edited) QUOTE (NJD @ Feb 4 2006, 09:41 PM) QUOTE Any suggestions for good DMX Dimmer Packs that have this capability....im working to a budget lol, if that helps...i want something that will basically do the job. Just thought I'd mention we've just brought out a couple of DMX dimmer packs: 4-channel, 10Amps per channel, part code DPX4/10. There's a version with terminal blocks and one with IEC sockets, and M10 bushes on the back so it can be bolted to stands and truss. Easy access to fuses, and the triacs can be changed without soldering. As a completely entranced and delighted NJD lighting control user - with a LV8000 and a pair of DP10000's - (love the slow fade up option in Standby mode - perfect for end of the night). I've just got three questions about the new pack which you've mentioned. 1) Can these DMX packs also be controled by a legacy 0~10volt controller? 2) Whats the retail price? 3) What's your best price for DJU members.... http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/whistling.gif Edited February 7, 2006 by Gary Link to post Share on other sites
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