Mcps Licence Poll

[ChrisPointon 0]

If you need an MCPS licence and one was to be introduced, which of the above options / fees would suit you the most?, and which one would you like to see represented by one central association on your behalf?.

http://www.dj-community.co.uk/digital.jpg

[short skirt high heels 0]

As it is nigh on impossible to insure your record collection, I think it is a disgrace to penalise anyone for protecting their (considerable) investment through the copying route.

 

If you had your music collection stolen tomorrow night, what would you do?

[Andy Westcott 0]

Sorry and all that, but I don't feel it is morally correct to suck cash out of us yet again for simply duplicating material we've already paid for, whether we are backing it up, or simply re-shuffling it for easier use or more compact storage.

 

If the material was being duplicated for use on another parallel disco, or for being sold, then there is justification. Otherwise there is no loss of revenue to the artists/record companies, and therefore there is no need for them to be 'compensated'.

 

I'm painfully aware that a licence will be introduced anyhow, so if I had to make a choice other than the option 1 I voted for, I would have to go with the idea of linking it to the DJs profits - the more the profit, presumably the more the music is being used. Not an absolute rule I know, but the best indicator we are likely to have.

[robbiedj 0]

My opinion is there should be a similar format to SG6. but no contacting producers and a one-off payment per track which includes a back-up copy.

 

A staggered payment option, say quarterly would be good.

[otronics 0]

NO COST!!

 

We pay for it, surely we can back it up and store it should we need it.

 

We pay enough in this country for the original material anyway + all the VAT etc.

[Gary 0]

QUOTE (robbiedj @ Jan 23 2006, 09:34 PM)

My opinion is there should be a similar format to SG6. but no contacting producers and a one-off payment per track which includes a back-up copy. A staggered payment option, say quarterly would be good.

Ditto!

 

Poor old SG-6 license, its actually stunningly good value, and its two best bits have been somewhat overlooked, and/or misunderstood by a few people, including PPL license re-sellers/distributers.

 

I nearly bought an SG-6 License last year to start transfering my vinyl collection to CD - the two major benefits of the SG6 are:

 

1) The £500 fee is one off - NOT annual - and at 10p per track, thats 5000 tracks covered.

 

2) The 10p per track is NOT payable as "extra" once you've handed over your £500 for the license... no. All those 10p per track come off of the original £500 - a bit like a mobile phone top-up card etc.

 

 

The only, and I mean "only", thing which stopped me from buying an SG-6 license last year was the requirement for me to write to all the different record labels.

 

I can see that by copying an original track, I'd have been bringing an additional copy into the world, and I personally was/am happy to pay a reasonable amount per track to do that.

 

As it is, I've abandoned the idea of moving my vinyl onto harddrive and then dumping it out to CD-R - not for any techincal reasons, purely as I dont fancy writing hundreds of letters to record companies, mentioning my SG-6 and begging permission to move their tracks. Now, I'm buying "Greatest hits of ...the 80's/blah blah artist" CD's eg: 120 tracks for £9.99 (under 10p per track) etc and replacing my original vinyl with original (compilation) CDs. This is a slightly better cost than the SG-6 Route, and doesnt encrouch on my time, labouriously "ripping" vinyl to harddrive in "real time" eg: a 1 hour LP takes 1 hour to record onto the harddrive...(harddrives just werent supposed to be accessed continously for hours on end http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/fear.gif )

 

Every discounted 80's compilation CD/box set I buy means that I can go through my vinyl collection and take out several 7inch or 12 inch singles, at a fairly good ratio. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/thumbup.gif

 

If the SG-6 revamp meant that there was blanket permission from the record companies, meaning that no individual letters had to be sent to each one, I'd probably still one for some of the rarer tracks, but as I havent bought vinyl since "Whigfield: Saturday night" (enough to put anyone off buying records http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/rolleyes.gif ), there is at least a finite amount of transfering that I need to do...once I've replaced all my vinyl with new compilations CDs, and the rare vinyls under license...its done. New music I buy will stay on the format I buy it - hence no dubbing, ripping, or transfering...

 

However, as well as Robbies suggestion for a staggered fee for the SG-7 (nicknamed), we also need something to cater for those DJ's who WILL have a small amount of new tracks that they want to transfer eg: DJs who buy/get sent new vinyl, or space-taking CD-singles each month, and want to rip to harddrive .... some sort of 100 tunes a month license...should just about cover ripping the latest Mastermix and NOW CD to harddrive each month.

[robbiedj 0]

QUOTE (Gary @ Jan 24 2006, 10:27 AM)

As it is, I've abandoned the idea of moving my vinyl onto harddrive and then dumping it out to CD-R - not for any techincal reasons, purely as I dont fancy writing hundreds of letters to record companies, mentioning my SG-6 and begging permission to move their tracks.

Gary, my vinyl consists of a lot of 50's & 60's singles. I don't even know who to write to as a lot of the companies are long gone.

 

How do you find out who owns the rights to these? darned if I know.

[spinner 0]

QUOTE (robbiedj @ Jan 24 2006, 08:11 PM)

my vinyl consists of a lot of 50's & 60's singles. I don't even know who to write to as a lot of the companies are long gone. How do you find out who owns the rights to these? darned if I know.

If you're really interested pm me with a list of labels and I may be able to tell you who owns the various back catalogues.

[HeadlineDJ 0]

You know I had to think then what was the last Vinyl I ever bought.. still not 100% sure, but it might have been Pet SHop BOys - Go West 12" single, I recall buying more than one item at the same time but can't think what they were right now.

 

Over 10 years ago anyways.

 

 

[Electrofreek 0]

i think there should be no cost.....there is alwyas loopholes for this kind of thing...for example how can they prove if somone is uing their backup cd's or stuff theve downloaded or bought off itunes for example....and what do you do if you have copied a cd off a friend and are using it......surely they cannot prove you have downloaded tracks by looking through your collection!

jules

[boogiebootsdisco 0]

QUOTE

NO COST!!

 

We pay for it, surely we can back it up and store it should we need it.

 

We pay enough in this country for the original material anyway + all the VAT etc.

 

 

I agree with this completely. From university, we learnt that if you own a copy of any CD, Vinyl, Tape, and have proof of purchase, then I was told you can create 1 Backup copy so long as you can prove that you are not reproducing to sell.

 

Any way, I know this is going well over the top and this will probably start and argument but;

I have seen alot of dj's over the years using all copied cd's or using a laptop. Once you have spent your cash building up a library of music, the last thing you want to do is destroy you cd collection by giving it the run around on gigs. So why not creat backup copies of the Cd's and use them instead. This way, your orriginals stay as new as possible and you can always create new copies if a cd becomes damaged.

 

Thats my 2cents done with. Does anyone have any other views?

 

Ken

 

http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/thumbup.gif

Edited May 3, 2006 by boogiebootsdisco

[ChrisPointon 0]

QUOTE

We pay for it, surely we can back it up and store it should we need it.

 

Can't fault your logic, and this is the way that the US maintain their Fair Use policy with regard to copyright.

 

Unfortunately I can see this heading the same way as the Canadian Authorities headed when they introduced similar licences for DJ's in 2000!. Unfortunately the Canadian Copyright associations lost the support of not only the DJ's but also the music industry and the consumer too, and today is faced with it's own share of problems as a direct result of sweeping changes to copyright laws

 

We can only hope that the PPL / MCPS take heed from this, and work with DJ's accordingly, rather than penalise them

[Gary 0]

QUOTE (boogiebootsdisco @ May 3 2006, 06:21 PM)

From university, we learnt that if you own a copy of any CD, Vinyl, Tape, and have proof of purchase, then I was told you can create 1 Backup copy so long as you can prove that you are not reproducing to sell.

Sadly, this useful (and in my personal opinion; only fair) idea, is not currently correct in the UK.

 

If you do a search here on DJU for threads over the last year+, for the phrase SG6 or SG-6, you'll uncover a whole load of research and posts.

 

Effectively, if you bought an SG-6 license from MCPS today, you could move 5000 tunes from whatever format they were on (even fairground organ music on paper rolls) onto whatever PHYSICAL (not harddrive) media you wanted to.

 

Two important caveats with the above statement (one good, one bad)

 

+) The payment is a ONE OFF - not annually.

 

-) You need to get permission from EACH record label for your proposed transfer.

 

 

 

 

However...things may be changing in the next few months....

Edited May 4, 2006 by Gary

[Dukesy 0]

QUOTE (Gary @ May 4 2006, 02:03 PM)

Effectively, if you bought an SG-6 license from MCPS today, you could move 5000 tunes from whatever format they were on (even fairground organ music on paper rolls) onto whatever PHYSICAL (not harddrive) media you wanted to.  Two important caveats with the above statement (one good, one bad) +)  The payment is a ONE OFF - not annually. -)  You need to get permission from EACH record label for your proposed transfer. However...things may be changing in the next few months....

All great, but I don't think MCPS like the idea of DJs obtaining tracks from as little as £0.10p. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/rolleyes.gif

 

 

Both PPL and MCPS want everyone to download. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/sad.gif

[zoltron 0]

I sit on the fence with this one I already pay my £235 for my digital licence, I think its all to with the country in which we live, its all gone mad. I do agree its not really needed because why pay twice fro our music, but I also accept I must pay it because its how I make an additional living. But £235 for 20000 tracks in digital format, bargain.

[ChrisPointon 0]

QUOTE

I already pay my £235 for my digital licence

 

So you only do public functions then?, and no private functions?

[zoltron 0]

QUOTE (Chris_Pointon @ Oct 17 2006, 08:37 PM)

QUOTE I already pay my £235 for my digital licence   So you only do public functions then?, and no private functions? I do both public and private, the last public performance was for an open day with my local council, 2 weeks ago. A friend who is also in this game advised me not to bother getting a licence, but i feel its better to be safe than sorry as any fine given to me would force me to wind the roadshow up, which I would not be very happy doing as I see it as a hobby i enjoy with the benefit of making money.

[ChrisPointon 0]

Hi,

 

No the reason I asked is because some folks are thinking of buying the license with good intentions but don't realise that the Digital DJ Licence does not cover you for legal use of digital files for private functions. Indeed such an entity does not exist currently and that is what is annoying a lot of DJs.

 

PPL has always been involved only with licensing for Public Performances, and this does not change with the introduction of the Digital Dj licence, so basically the Digital DJ Licence will only cover you for using a laptop / pc / mp3 with legal music files at public events, such as pubs etc, and not for the Wedding or Birthday held in a village hall or function room.

 

This is confirmed on the PPL Licence Site

 

QUOTE

Who can obtain a Digital DJ Licence? Any individual DJ who wants a licence to keep digital copies of sound recordings and use them for public performances can obtain a Digital DJ Licence from PPL

 

So basically DJ's who work Public Events (Public Performances) can obtain a licence, whilst those using them for private events still cannot as it is beyond the jurisidiction of PPL and of course the licence http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[DJ Marky Marc 0]

QUOTE

All great, but I don't think MCPS like the idea of DJs obtaining tracks from as little as £0.10p.

 

your are not obtaining tracks for 10p your have to buy the track on CD or vinyl at full price and then pay the .10p to copy it to your hard disk........

[Dukesy 0]

QUOTE (Dukesy @ May 4 2006, 03:03 PM)

QUOTE (Gary @ May 4 2006, 02:03 PM) Effectively, if you bought an SG-6 license from MCPS today, you could move 5000 tunes from whatever format they were on (even fairground organ music on paper rolls) onto whatever PHYSICAL (not harddrive) media you wanted to.   Two important caveats with the above statement (one good, one bad) +)  The payment is a ONE OFF - not annually. -)  You need to get permission from EACH record label for your proposed transfer. However...things may be changing in the next few months.... All great, but I don't think MCPS like the idea of DJs obtaining tracks from as little as £0.10p. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/rolleyes.gif     Both PPL and MCPS want everyone to download. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/sad.gif This is what I said Marc

[Danno13 0]

I'm sure i'm not alone in thinking that 10p charge for ripping a track to your PC is unwarranted.

 

The BPI have said they won't prosecute people copying their CDs to an iPod for personal use but yet we have to pay.

 

Ok, i know we're using it for business use, but by that logic shouldn't we then have an extra charge for our CDs in HMV??

[RobbieD 0]

QUOTE (Danno13 @ Oct 18 2006, 03:05 PM)

Ok, i know we're using it for business use, but by that logic shouldn't we then have an extra charge for our CDs in HMV??

Don't point that out to them!!!!

 

Joking aside, that would be impossible to work. Record shops would need to get every customer to fill in a declaration stating whether or no they are a DJ.

 

Almost as impossible to enforce is charging a fee to tens (or possibly hundreds) of thousands of unregistered part-time DJ's to copy CD's to their harddisc's. (Yet they are trying.)

 

Much similar would be for them to make every fixed (and therefore easy to track) venue that hosts pre-recorded music pay them a fee. That would be much easier to collect, and to make sure that every venue was paying (as opposed to a percentage of honest DJ's paying copying fees).

 

Oh, they already do that! http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/533.gif

[Murrough 0]

You are never going to be able to police a license based on tracks, media or formats or anything like that. Just look how the industry is going, it is simply going to be impossible to police and would take huge amounts of skilled resource to check machines etc.

 

Look how sky police their signals, for commercial customers there is a pint of guiness type outline on the screen. Any pub that shows a match without the guinness type symbol can easily be seen by any inspector.

 

If we take a different scenario and reverse it, currently most of us buy our car insurance at a flat rate per year.. However Norwich Union has just introduced a rate per mile. How, because the technology is becoming available to track it automatically.

 

For us, there is no such technology to police it easily, so as a consequence we will have to license the individual as that is policable. I will hold a DJ license, that will allow me to DJ in any format I like so long as I am using copies of originals that I own. If I am DJ'ing at any venue, private or public and I am not licensed, I am done. Between the PPL, MRPS and BPI, they have the joint coverage to produce this.

 

The policing and proving of the latter bit is a standard fraud inquiry line and should be followed if suspected, but to try and make every DJ prove accountability up front by license and process is ridiculous, it cannot work and you will not find an operations team in the country able to write a process that could be be fool-proof.

 

The quicker they realise that, the better, just get on with it and assume that , like itune and downloaders, the vast majority of DJ's would register as it would only take an inspector to walk into a venue and prove you are not.

 

Of course, if I provided copied material to all my DJ's and cannot account for a master per copy, then well, I deserve the book thrown at me.

 

I personally think it would be worth around 300 a year.

Edited October 18, 2006 by Murrough

[Danno13 0]

Well why can't that also cover the same tracks being played from a digital system... after all it shouldn't make any difference to the record company whether i play my music from a CD or a PC.

 

Oh.. actually i know why.. its because record companies are greedy and we're an easy target.. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/sad.gif

[Phil Cunnington 0]

Hi,

 

No the reason I asked is because some folks are thinking of buying the license with good intentions but don't realise that the Digital DJ Licence does not cover you for legal use of digital files for private functions. Indeed such an entity does not exist currently and that is what is annoying a lot of DJs.

 

PPL has always been involved only with licensing for Public Performances, and this does not change with the introduction of the Digital Dj licence, so basically the Digital DJ Licence will only cover you for using a laptop / pc / mp3 with legal music files at public events, such as pubs etc, and not for the Wedding or Birthday held in a village hall or function room.

 

This is confirmed on the PPL Licence Site

 

Who can obtain a Digital DJ Licence?

 

Any individual DJ who wants a licence to keep digital copies of sound recordings and use them for public performances can obtain a Digital DJ Licence from PPL

 

So basically DJ's who work Public Events (Public Performances) can obtain a licence, whilst those using them for private events still cannot as it is beyond the jurisidiction of PPL and of course the licence

 

Anyone reading this - please, please speak to PPL before deciding to not buy a licence.

 

The performance licence is not the same as the digital dj licence.

 

The digital dj licence is effectively required even if you have never performed as it relates to the copying or ripping of the tracks not the performance. There is no limit to their jurisdiction for copyright purposes regardless of any limit to jurisdiction of performance licences.

 

The last thing we want is djs thinking they can copy music with impunity because someone suggested it on a forum.

 

Put simply, this information is incorrect.