Noise limiters - has anyone has equipment failure?

[brianmole 0]

Other than a blown lamp, or a PC needing rebuilding, has anyone ever had equipment failure when sound limiter trips out?

 

Personally, I really find them irritating, and will avoid working with them. But I hear a lot of people who say that they will damage equipment if they trip. In my experience, this has never happened in 24 years, and I have worked with plenty, so I wonder if this suggestion is based on experience...

 

The reason I avoid working with them is quite simply that they are athmosphere killers, and put me on edge as I find myself constantly watching the levels instead of the punters.

[jamminroadshow 0]

I have not had something blow because of the limiter its self but i have for a sudden power loss which is sort of the same thing. My dynamo stopped working found out that it bust the bulb.

 

A friend of mine has though he amp would not come back on after the limiter threw the power out.

 

I do not like working with limiters but i suppose power surges could be worse than the power going out.

 

I would say that it hightens the risk of something going wrong so not happened yet but you know the saying put you hand in the fire and you will get burnt.

Edited February 2, 2006 by jamminroadshow

[Gary 0]

QUOTE (brianmole @ Feb 2 2006, 02:12 PM)

But I hear a lot of people who say that they will damage equipment if they trip. In my experience, this has never happened

Ditto here.

 

I can understand where people get the idea from - and in theory any item that is off, and then suddenly gets presented with a questionable re-application of power can suffer anything from a blowing anti-surge fuse, a damaged PSU, or something nastier.

 

For me, the worst bit about sound limiters used to be the "WOOOOOOOOOO !!!" from the darkened, silent dancefloor, during the time where the only illumination in the place was the bright red glow coming from my embarassed face.... http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/oops.gif

 

My only bad electrical experiences in terms of equipment damage has been from using generators.

[brianmole 0]

.

QUOTE

A friend of mine has though he amp would not come back on after the limiter threw the power out.

 

 

Fair enough, can you find out which amp he was using, and what it was driving? I'de be very interested to find out if it failed because the power went out, or when the power came back on

 

 

Guys & gals, I really want first had experience here, not 'my mate blew an amp' incidents. Cheers,

Brian

[jamminroadshow 0]

QUOTE (brianmole @ Feb 2 2006, 02:22 PM)

Fair enough, can you find out which amp he was using, and what it was driving? I'de be very interested to find out if it failed because the power went out, or when the power came back on.

Not sure about what amp he was using but the power went out and then never came back on which left him stuck. Lucky he had a spare or that would have been it for the night.

 

I am not sure if the power going off killed it or the power coming back on did. You might have you first blowed equipment now you said that it has not happened lol (i am touching wood for you)

 

 

[otronics 0]

Never worked with one and hope I never will.

 

Yes, stuff can blow if one trips.

 

I hate sound limiters!

[spinner 0]

QUOTE (brianmole @ Feb 2 2006, 02:12 PM)

The reason I avoid working with them is quite simply that they are atmosphere killers, and put me on edge as I find myself constantly watching the levels instead of the punters.

I won't work in venues with sound limiters either.

 

The last time I was in a room with a limiter, guests' conversations were tripping the power. The danger of power surges had been mentioned to me previously so I avoided problems by taking down all levels and turning all switches to the off position immediately the power went off.

 

A real nuisance when you have to do it half a dozen times in 4 hours.

[Thats entertainment 0]

One of my res bars has a sound limiter that lowers the sound if you hit the red

The problem is that its not that loud when you work with in the green area

All night punters come up to you and say "Turn it up mate....cant hear it!"

Which is true as you can hear people talking as the music ticks by... http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/wallbash.gif

 

The worst venue i worked (thank god it got knocked down) had a limiter that would kill the power if you hit the red

Even if people where singing (or shouting at the DJ) and the music level was droped right off it would still cut off.... http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/wallbash.gif

[RobbieD 0]

I guess that the biggest risk is a loud pop or bang from the mixer getting to the speakers as the power amps have not been shut down before the power is disconnected. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/fear.gif

 

Who here would choose to power down at the end of the night by just pulling the 13A socket out of the wall whilst everything is still switched on?

[DJ Marky Marc 0]

I killed a Rane crossover and had a RCF amp not want to come out of protection on one channel because of a sound limiter, all in one night.

 

Maybe it was just bad luck or maybe it was the power triping....

 

I now refuse to play with a sound limiter.

[Eskie 0]

One of my active speakers wouldn't come back on after the dreaded limiter cut the power.

It was during the wedding speeches; the brides father was using my radio mic; I was controlling the volume levels and he had been talking extremely quietly for around 5 minutes so I had the volume pretty high then totally out of character the guy suddenly screams into the mic http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/fear.gif the poxy limiter then kicked in and one speaker wouldn't come back on http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/mad.gif

No permanent damage done though, it just knocked out the fuse; I was able to complete the gig with one speaker quite easily and changed the fuse the next day.

[nrgize 0]

Once I played at a Village Hall in Milton Keynes that had a sound limiter. Within one night it had blown its way though 8 lightbulbs. Everytime it cut the power the bulbs had blown. And after the first time of powering down and back on quickly it had ruined my Dual CD Player. The display was lit up but there was no numbers, then loads of scrambled numbers kept flashing. After powering down and back on properly it still didnt work. Ended up replacing CD player to a better one ;)

[DJ Marky Marc 0]

I think the poll shows that there is a risk and its a risk not worth taking....

[brianmole 0]

This is interesting, Marky is right in my opinion.

 

May I make a suggestion? If you have a cut out, turn off you amp first, then everything else. When power is restored and stable, turn everything back on as you normally do. Then set the main gain a little lower!

 

I think I will go down the UPS route for any more of these gigs. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/thanks.gif

[Andy Westcott 0]

I've not had the misfortune to work with one of these devices, and don't know of anyone who has experienced equipment problems due to one.

 

I have it written into my contract that I will not work with sound detectors.

This is mainly because of what I imagine it would do to the success of the evening, but also because of the possible risk of damage to equipment, in particular speakers.

 

Technically, the most damaging situation would be if you were using amps without de-thump relays. This would allow a large, possibly full power low frequency 'thump' to be passed to the speakers at both power off and power on, and if the amp is rated way above the speakers you could bottom the voice coils with disastrous results.

 

Much as someone said earlier, the best you can do is to manually switch off the amps or unplug the speakers until the power comes back, whereupon you power them back up after the mixer/crossover/EQ or whatever else you may have in line.

 

There shouldn't really be any issues with the amps themselves, or any other equipment, but it is possible the mains might blow a fuse on power-on due to all of those torroidal transformers. This type of transformer is known for it's surge demands at switch-on anyhow, but as in my case, if you have 4 amps each with one, and another 4 projectors also with one each, that is one heck of a power-on surge for the poor old 13 amp fuses in your extension leads to withstand.

[nigelwright7557 0]

I have not had something blow because of the limiter its self but i have for a sudden power loss which is sort of the same thing. My dynamo stopped working found out that it bust the bulb.

 

A friend of mine has though he amp would not come back on after the limiter threw the power out.

 

I do not like working with limiters but i suppose power surges could be worse than the power going out.

 

I would say that it hightens the risk of something going wrong so not happened yet but you know the saying put you hand in the fire and you will get burnt.

 

Anything on the mains with a big relay or contactor will cause huge spikes on the mains as they break.

This can upset some cheaper amps with poor input filtering.

 

[superstardeejay 0]

Sounds like a storm in a teacup to me. I cant see any electronic reason why killing the mains at full tilt should affect the equipment. Most noise limiters only work on the amps (which can be killed at any time barring a truly poor design) and are usually also linked to the fire alarms so a fire call will be heard. They are often mandatory (it varies from local authority to authority) for either licensing or HSE reasons.

 

Good-mannered mixers and CD players won't go bump or click on power-down either and if they do...well they're probably a bit on the cheap side and best left in the bedroom!

 

:hide:

 

 

[NRG Roadshow 0]

Once I played at a Village Hall in Milton Keynes that had a sound limiter. Within one night it had blown its way though 8 lightbulbs. Everytime it cut the power the bulbs had blown. And after the first time of powering down and back on quickly it had ruined my Dual CD Player. The display was lit up but there was no numbers, then loads of scrambled numbers kept flashing. After powering down and back on properly it still didnt work. Ended up replacing CD player to a better one ;)

 

And did you charge cost of replacment equipment to the venue, I would have certainly tried to claim it back as its thier fault, not sure how succesfull you would be trying to claim off a venue for equipment damage.

 

I do try and avoid soundlimiters if I can, most are set at a stupidly low level....

I did onece work with on in a venue, it had the traffic light system at the oposite end of the room......had it into the red loads of times and nothing cut-out.

Do they need to be in the red for a certain amount of time before they actually cut out?

Maybe this one was faulty

[UKHero 0]

And did you charge cost of replacment equipment to the venue, I would have certainly tried to claim it back as its thier fault, not sure how succesfull you would be trying to claim off a venue for equipment damage.

 

I do try and avoid soundlimiters if I can, most are set at a stupidly low level....

I did onece work with on in a venue, it had the traffic light system at the oposite end of the room......had it into the red loads of times and nothing cut-out.

Do they need to be in the red for a certain amount of time before they actually cut out?

Maybe this one was faulty

 

Yes usually about 3 to 5 seconds....

[Dream Catchers 0]

If you use a projector cutting the power can ruin it.

The lamp (@£200+) needs to be cooled with the fan, pulling the power can pop the lamp and also melt some of the other components near the lamp.

I wont use the projector with a sound limiter.

 

I wont knowiningly take a booking for a venue with one either.

 

Jim

[superstardeejay 0]

It's best not plugged into a sound limiter socket!

[Gary (GDK) 0]

haha

there has only being once ive had a problem with a sound limiter and it was with kids screaming after i got them to... luckily i had a spare amp as it just blew the fuse on it. Not sure weather ive mentioned it before but where i work part time as a bar supervisor our limiter cuts off when people moan after someone shouts house on bingo!

[davemoody 0]

I refuse to work with sound limiters. I always determine if a venue has one before the day of the booking and refuse to plug in to the associated power sockets. Always run power from somewhere else.

 

I just explain to the manager that I am not running a mobile night club and it will not be that loud and if it is please come and tell me and I will gladly turn it down.

 

There was one hotel which will remain nameless that had one that cut the power for at least 10 seconds every time. It was set so low that I remember struggling to play anything.

[UKHero 0]

I refuse to work with sound limiters. I always determine if a venue has one before the day of the booking and refuse to plug in to the associated power sockets. Always run power from somewhere else.

 

I just explain to the manager that I am not running a mobile night club and it will not be that loud and if it is please come and tell me and I will gladly turn it down.

 

There was one hotel which will remain nameless that had one that cut the power for at least 10 seconds every time. It was set so low that I remember struggling to play anything.

 

How do you determine that the venue has one or not?

Edited April 10, 2008 by UKHero

[Dream Catchers 0]

I just explain to the manager that I am not running a mobile night club and it will not be that loud and if it is please come and tell me and I will gladly turn it down.

I would expect that most would reply that if "it will not be that loud", then you would have no problems with the limiter.

 

Jim