Pioneer CDJ-1000 MK3

[milhouse 0]

I've just received my order of 2x Pioneer CDJ-1000's, the recently released Mark 3 version. At £725 EACH they're a fair wack, but a stunning peice of kit which has a lot of functions I need for the DJing that I do.

 

One of the decks is refusing to play CDRs and some of my "promo" CDs. It gets stuck at the "loading CD" stage.

 

The other deck plays them fine.

 

Very disappointing really, you don't expect to have problems with such pricey kit.

 

Will now have to go through the task of sending them back etc etc.

 

Are dodgy pioneer CDJs a common problem?

[Gary 0]

if you hold down LOOP EXIT/LOOP OUT for 5 seconds, do you get the same display of characters on both units?

[milhouse 0]

QUOTE (Gary @ Jun 1 2006, 01:48 AM)

if you hold down LOOP EXIT/LOOP OUT for 5 seconds, do you get the same display of characters on both units?

Nothing happens when I do that http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/wacko.gif

[milhouse 0]

Hmm

 

Its just swallowed a CD and refuses to eject.

 

Bet you can guess how annoyed I am right now!

 

Oh no wait.. I turned the power off, turned it back on, and now its playing the CD.

 

http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/wallbash.gif http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/wallbash.gif

[Gary 0]

That used to be the way of displaying the Firmware version within each unit - apparently no longer, unless they've up'd the timer count eg: 10 seconds.

 

If one unit was an older version of firmware than the other, that could explain differences in the behaviour. To my knowledge there are no firmware issues on the CDJ1000 mk3 (yet), mind you, this unit has the 6th version (at least) of CDJ-1000 firmware in it now. Pioneers only current firmware issues relate to the CDJ-800mk2 (awful Master Tempo - no resolution in sight) and the DVJ-X1 firmware release (or Non-release for UK owners), relating to a video fix and MP3 playback.

 

Unfortunately any unit, at any price can suffer hardware issues - dispite getting a perfect bill of health and Quality Control stickers at the factory. The two units could have been lovingly made, carefully packed, respectfully placed in a well-driven lorry, then one dutifully dropped by The XYZ sound and lighting saturday lad, seconds before you saw the box come out of the stockroom. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/533.gif

 

I think that you've got a "back to the dealer" jobby there.

[milhouse 0]

QUOTE (Gary @ Jun 1 2006, 02:07 AM)

That used to be the way of displaying the Firmware version within each unit - apparently no longer, unless they've up'd the timer count eg: 10 seconds.

You're right (I think!) Its more like 12 seconds.

 

Both say "Main VER 1.40" so I take it thats the Firmware version.

 

Back to the dealer it is. And back to using my reliable workhorse Denon 4000s for another few weeks. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Welsh Audio Man 21 0]

If you have recently recieved them, they will be under garauntee! Send them back! They will either repair it or replace it. I don't care what anyone says, both players should work the same, so there must be a fault somewhere!

[milhouse 0]

Well thats it - one unit is going back to the dealer on Monday!

 

I believe Im not allowed to say which dealer I bought them from on here (I may be wrong) - but they are one of the bigger online stores based in London.

 

They are 110% for customer service. Ive had no problems getting through to a technical support or customer service agent and they have always returned my calls, and have arranged a free collection of my faulty deck.

 

But they have no more CDJ-1000s in stock. (Pioneer being shy with their distribution of these decks).. after waiting 8 weeks to receive these ones, god only knows when Ill get my replacement http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/014.gif http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/014.gif http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/014.gif http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/014.gif

[Gary 0]

QUOTE (JonWhittaker @ Jun 1 2006, 10:54 AM)

I believe Im not allowed to say which dealer I bought them from on here (I may be wrong)

A long long time ago...(hmmm, I'll write that down, might be a good way of starting a song.)...it would have been against DJU code of conduct to mention any dealer other than Congleton Sound & Light(ing?) who up until about a year ago, were the company that solely funded the forum.

 

Now, however, the forum is entirely independant from any single dealer or retailer funding* , so theres nothing wrong with members mentioning which dealer they've bought things from (except outright slaggings of course, but this thread is showing your as yet unknown dealer in a good light).

 

If its any help, I'd doubt that your wait for a replacement MKIII now will be as long as the initial wait - until then, as you say, it's back to your trusty Denons.

 

 

* However, if any retailer would like to stump up a small prize and run a competition on DJU to help promote themselves or a new product or service they're now offering - by all means get in touch. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/notworthy.gif

Edited June 1, 2006 by Gary

[milhouse 0]

QUOTE (Gary @ Jun 1 2006, 12:15 PM)

Now, however, the forum is entirely independant from any single dealer or retailer funding, so theres nothing wrong with members mentioning which dealer they've bought things from (except outright slaggings of course, but this thread is showing your as yet unknown dealer in a good light).

Ok - It was decks.co.uk, otherwise known as "Sapphires". http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif

[brianmole 0]

Jon, I would really like to know how you get on with these. I have the MK1 version of this awesome product, and apart from a broken switch, they have been superb. I will probably replace my MK1's with MK3's in the not too distant future, so feedback would be great once you have had a good chance to play with them/it!

[superstardeejay 0]

Ah, my Pioneer CDJ500's came from Sapphires as well, long before i was in the trade. No problems there but the new CDJ1000 (of any version) are vastly more complicated and I think they're made in China now. (My CDj's are Japanese).

 

If the unit has never worked, you are entitled to a refund plus reasonable compensation if the unit can be proved faulty from new...it contravenes the sale of goods act 1979 as a faulty new machine is not deemed to be of merchantable quality and the dealer is in breach of contract. You must report the fault to the supplier within around 14 days however, and you must not agree to a replacement and then change your mind later.

 

If the dealer cannot replace the unit in a reasonable period, maybe you should have the refund and get a CDJ from another dealer..?

 

If you ordered them mail order then you are also covered by the Distance Selling act which carries additional benefits...and if you paid by credit card then that's even better.

 

All the above is valid if you're buying items from a retailer, as a consumer, not as a re-seller by way of trade. (English law...Scotland varies).

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DJ_Ajay 0]

One of my cdjs (1000mk2) stopped spinning cds oneday, it was about 3mths old. Had it looked at and a piece of dust had gotten into a micro-swtich, which caused the problem.....

 

There a highly tuned piece of kit, but its scary to know a piece of dust can bring them down....

[superstardeejay 0]

Nah, pcb deck switches are sealed, they have to survive the pcb being washed down after soldering, so dust wont get in. Maybe the dealer was just trying to smooth things over??

 

 

 

 

[transeurope 0]

Dealers bending the truth?

 

DJ CD decks not working?

 

Whatever next? http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/fright.gif

[superstardeejay 0]

Yeah, well, these machines are indeed very complicated. It's true that Pioneer have had firmware updates, but so have their closest rival, Denon..the website highlights the CD player (DNS etc) faults that have been cured by such upgrades.

 

At least both these big-hitters in the DJ equipment world admit there's a fault and are able to cure it! There aren't many of the 'DJ' brands (we know who they are!) who would ever issue a firmware update to cure a niggling characteristic! Owners of such branded units have to learn to live with them.

 

Do let us know, Jon, how you get on.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gary 0]

The huge difference between Pioneers firmware updates on their CDJ's and all the Denon CD-decks is the way in which the new firmware is installed.

 

With Pioneer CDJ's the unit has to be boxed up, couriered to an authorised Pioneer service centre (and we all know how gentle couriers are), opened up, laid bare whilst the new firmware is installed, closed up (in more or less the same way it was before), couried back to the waiting DJ, unboxed etc, etc, etc.

 

With the Denon CD-decks, the user inserts the firmware enhancement CD in the usual slot, holds down a couple of buttons on the normal front panel, and waits 40~150 seconds - job done. The unit never leaves the venue or DJ/owner.

 

 

 

[transeurope 0]

I can't really think of a major DJ brand that doesn't do software updates, I know that Numark and KAM do, I am not sure about Gemini....

 

Of course whether all of this should be happening in the first place is another question.

 

Most domestic CD players purchased in a supermarket seem to miraculously survive their shipping, and seem very "unsurprised" by disc-writing technologies.

 

Is it acceptable that something costing so much does so little in comparison to something that parents buy children as a treat?

 

Let's put this in context. ASDA sell a portable anti-shock (gosh, fancy that) unit for about thirty quid when it is on special.

 

It has never refused to handle a disc, ever. Even ones burned on computers manufactured much later than that of the CD player itself.

 

I have never had to surf the net to update its software.

 

One year ago it was taking MP3 files in its stride. It has sort by name tag.

 

The pioneer machine is roughly 40 times the price.

 

Is this good enough?

 

Gary also raises an intersting point, is there any benefit to Pioneer machines having to go through such a cumbersome update procedure? The difference does seem rather stark.

 

 

[superstardeejay 0]

I dont think anyone needs another Pioneer vs Denon argument again!!

 

Suffice to say that both Pioneer and Denon technical forums have long lists of disgruntled customers who have reported faults on their platter-style CD players....if you're a prospective customer of these products, remember that owners will usually only post if they have a problem, not if they're completely satisfied!

 

Pioneer say that their CDJ's are not software-upgradeable because there arent any software issues with them! Some very early Pioneer CDJ1000 Mk1's had to have a ROM chip changed by dealers, this was a fault affecting the first 6 months production from the factory, and only showed as a fault if any one CD track had a time code of 13 minutes or longer.

Denon DNS players have their operating firmare in a 'flash' memory ( a bit like their digital mixers) which means they can be user-upgraded if necessary: Pioneer's firmware is burned permanently in a microchip so can't easily be changed. Pioneer are hoping to bring out a flashable ROM in their successor to the CDJ1000. The differences between the upgraded CDJ800's and CDJ1000's (mk 1,2,3 etc) are in the circuit boards so can't be converted from a Mk1 to a Mk2 etc.

 

If your Pioneer is showing as faulty, it's more likely a hardware fault.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gary 0]

QUOTE (transeurope @ Jun 4 2006, 12:53 PM)

is there any benefit to Pioneer machines having to go through such a cumbersome update procedure? The difference does seem rather stark.

The worst thing is that a devout owner of the Pioneer CDJ1000 who purchased one, or a pair as soon as the CDJ appeared, and wanting to stay upto date would have had to have returned their unit to a Pioneer authorised Service centre 4 times for each of the 4 firmware updates which were made after the original firmware design.

 

Pioneer have however, finally latched onto Denons/Numarks/Technics(sort of) idea of user-loadable firmware updates on their £2500 DVJ-X1 DVD player, but now they're being cagey about not letting the firmware updates out to all users at the same time.

Edited June 5, 2006 by Gary

[milhouse 0]

Well my CDJ has just been picked up by the courier. A local chap, we got chatting as he asked if I was a DJ - turns out he goes to the bars I DJ in!

 

He says he's been picking up "quite a few" of these CDJs to send back to Sapphires - so it looks like its a global problem - a bad batch maybe?

 

I ran "further tests" last night - using around 15 CDRs and CDRWs of mine. The faulty deck refused ALL of them, the other played ALL of them without issue.

[superstardeejay 0]

QUOTE

have returned their unit to a Pioneer authorised Service centre 4 times for each of the 4 firmware updates which were made after the original firmware design.

 

The firmware update has only I believe been applied to the CDJ1000 Mk1 as I mentioned (discontinued product), and only the first 6 months production. There have not been any firmware updates to the Mk2 or Mk3 machines.

 

The Mk1 updates were primarily because CDR manufacturers started selling 90 minute CDR's which the Pioneer CDJ1000 Mk1 (along with most of the PC CD writers of the day) were not able to handle..and the previously mentioned 13min long track bug which meant the machine would not recognise the TOC if it contained such long single tracks.

 

I'm citing these details from the Pioneer-run CDJ forum which I regret I'm not allowed to link to from here!!

 

It is incorrect to insinuate that Pioneer CDJ1000's are beset with software/hardware modifications: they aren't! Just as with the Denon DNS range suffering from the 're-cue loop' fault (where certain tracks cause the track to play a few seconds then re-cue to the start of a track in a terminal loop), and the corrupt display fault (where operating the scratch wheel and the pitch slider at the same time causes gobbledegook in the display)...these firmware glitches are seldom seen even in un-modified machines from either stable...it's why they slip through the net, so to speak.

 

The old Pioneer CDJ1000-Mk1 was the first platter-type single CD player: Denon simply improved on it some time later with the DNS range. I say range...they've brought out many different DNS players since Pioneer first released the CDJ1000: Their DNS1000/3000/3500/5000 etc. Should Pioneer have named their platter machines the CDJ1000/2000/3000/4000 instead of Mk1,2,3 etc..??

 

I happen to think, by the way, that the Denons are more pleasant and realistic to use as a platter machine than any other.

 

DENON:

http://www.alphamusicva.com/01Departments/09DJ-Karaoke/Images/Denon/DNS5000/dns5000.jpg

 

PIONEER:

http://www.rs100.co.uk/images/CDJ1000-2-1.jpg

 

 

[Gary 0]

QUOTE (superstardeejay @ Jun 5 2006, 09:18 PM)

I happen to think, by the way, that the Denons are more pleasant and realistic to use as a platter machine than any other.

Ditto

 

Ah firmware...not that it matters too much on the discontinued CDJ1000mk1 but, Pioneers firmware releases for it are an interesting tale - especially the story behind firmware release 3 and 4...that's a corker.

 

Firmware 1 - What was in the original machines as they left the factory.

 

Firmware 2 - fixed some of the problems with, as you say, the 13 minute single track issue and a few other little bits and bobs.

 

Firmware 3 - fixed a few other bits and bobs that slowly unfolded in the version 1 firmware, including the CDJ not stopping dead in the middle of playing a CDR which had a video track (enhanced CD) coming up....(but what was missing from this version of the firmware...?)

 

Firmware 4 - OUCH...Firmware 3 fixed a few of the other issues found in firmware 1, which hadnt already been fixed in version 2 - BUT (here it comes) firmware 3 didn't include the fixes for all of the things that firmware 2 took care of - whoops. So, firmware 4 was released which was the correct combination of firmware 2 and firmware 3.

 

Then came the MK2 - with, of course a new version of firmware again...fair enough, it was a slightly different machine - eg: sliver rim around the edge of the platter, 10% brighter display, and digital out "fixed".

 

Then came MK3

 

Pioneers CDJ-800's have suffered from their own interesting fault, relating to it not clearing down its anti-shock buffer at the time of disc eject - meaning a rather (non-) amusing trick happens if the player suffers a knock/shock/jolt when the new disc is in - it plays back tiny bits of the buffer from the last disc.

 

Pioneers 19inch rack mount CD-decks also didn't escape firmware issues - the Pioneer 5000 suffered an official recall of two and a half thousand units due to the Auto-mix function taking full control of the keys and, if it couldnt get a mix working right, it froze out the controls on both sides of the dual deck - the only button that carried on working, was the power button.

 

Aside from the Pioneer 5000 dual, all the other little tweaks, nudges, bimps and bumps from both manufacturers tend to only show up in very extreme circumstances - and rarely have much impact if/when they do - as in your example of where operating the scratch wheel and the pitch slider at the same time causes gobbledegook in the display whilst the dual operation is performed - fixed in the next free user installable firmware update btw - easy to upload in 2 mins in the comfort of the users own home, without even unplugging the audio and power leads.

 

At the shared front edge of DJ technology, such things are only to be expected - thankfully theres nearly always a free patch/fix which is made available from both camps. Some say that maybe neither camp should release the units until full testing of every possible permutation of every combination of features is tried - there are 3 problems with this:

 

1) Us DJ's are a resourceful, and creative bunch - give us an ink-blot, a rubber band, and everything from down the back of Aunty Ediths sofa and over the course of a weekend we'll have come up with something that the Sunday colour suppliments will advertise on their back cover, for only £29.95 + P&P allow 28 days for delivery... All the possible combinations would most likely never be found - especially given that one of the variables is the music/CD's that we slip inside our CD-decks.

 

2) By the time that extensive testing of every possible feature combination was tried on the "final" production model - all the other manufactuers would have moved on, by possibly 2 or 3 different machines. Delay is deadly.

 

3) Even with rigorous. thorough, meticulous testing, with years elapsing between one model and the next, problems can still creep in. Case in point...Technics....it was about 1986/1987 when Technics released their first DJ CD-deck, the SLP-1210 - I remember seeing Paul Dakayne work "wonders" live with a pair at the Hippodrome, Leicester Square, that year - having had almost 20 years to go away and think about the next version, Technics launch the shiny SLDZ-1200 and completely blow it with and awful sounding Pitch lock - a problem which the new CDJ-800 mk2 is currently suffering with - but hey, it's only firmware - no problem, just so long as you keep the box.

[transeurope 0]

Well I dunno guys. Gary's comprehensive post there is a great list of some of the faults in the Pioneer range.

 

Let's not forget the cool CMX3000 fault: In the middle of a gig the machine locks up and requires power cycling to become operative again. In fact sometimes it does this all by itself. Locking up first then powering down and powering up. If your back is turned when it does this your instinct is of course to spin around and press play. Except now the machine is cued to the long slow intro of Track#1 on the CD.

 

Does this fault exist? Well I have seen it enough. Of course ask Pioneer and they say "no" so obviously I am raving lunatic along with several of my colleagues.

 

We have all seen it, on different machines, but who are we to dispute the mighty Pioneer?

 

All DJ cd player companies treat their customers in a pretty shoddy fashion and they wonder why people are embracing laptop with such speed.

 

It's just not good enough for machines that cost so much.

 

 

Would you put up with this kind of denial from Dell?

[superstardeejay 0]

Dont forget, though, that the Pioneer CDJ1000/mk1 firmware update was to allow the playing of 'non standard' and certain 'copy protected' discs that are/were never part of the Philips Red-Book CD standard. Pioneer were never obliged to offer such an update: the CDJ1000 did what it was supposed to do.

 

A similar update to the CMX3000 right hand deck was to prevent player lock-up if the machine had problems reading a faulty CDR..again, not really the fault of the player...Who advertises their players as 'being able to read faulty CDRs no problem"...?

 

Obviously it would have been better for the firmware to have 'turned a blind eye' to a faulty CDR and simply skipped noisily over the portion...the way many conventional players do. But scratch players read the disc ahead in good time..in the case of the CMX5000, it's x2, in the case of the CMX3000 / CDJ1000 it's up to x15 speed, buffering the music data into memory....and it's hard to buffer a fingerprint into memory, the player thinks it's just skipped due to a bass beat or something!

 

The Denon DNS range were developed some time after the Pioneers, after all, so may benefit from hindsight! I remember a good 2 years after the dawn of the CDJ1000 range, Denon had their first DNS sealed in a glass case at PLASA because it wasnt ready yet...and when it was released, it was bound to be technologically superior to the CDJ1000/Mk1...it was designed to rival and beat it!

 

I can't comment on the CDJ800 as we've not had any in for repair, it's certainly a budget platter machine, it's about the first CDJ not to use Pioneer's revolutionary holographic pickup (it uses a Sanyo SF laser). If they're bad enough, we'll see 'em soon. A superclub in Derby has just had a pair of these 800's...I'll keep my eye on them!!

 

Pioneer CDJ800

http://www.clubsound.nl/webshop/images/PRODJ800PLATE.jpg