Stobe Light - Health And Safety

[spudcooper 0]

Can Anyone Please Tell Me The Health And Safety Laws Reguarding The Use Of Storbe Lights Please.

Thanks (in advance)

[Gary 0]

my understanding is that it varies from place to place eg: council/local authorities setting their own "maximums".

 

IMO strobes are on the same "Don't bother anymore" list, alongside smoke, haze, bubbles, snow, Windows, pyrotechnics, dry-ice....

[High Fidelity 0]

Certainly in theatres, you have to post notices to say that strobe lighting will be used.

 

I would imagine the same would apply to any gig that the public has access to.

[Andy Westcott 0]

There are no laws as such, but local councils may have their own regulations.

 

The HSE recommend limited use, for no longer than 30 seconds at a time, and at a flash rate of below 5 flashes per second.

This frequency has been shown to affect very few of those epileptics who exhibit photosensitivity, who themselves are in a very small minority - 5% or so of all epileptics.

 

To cover your ass, it is highly recommended you put up warning signs about the possible usage of strobe lighting, and use the mic to direct peoples' attention to them.

 

Common misconceptions and wives' tales:

Using a strobe will not cause a non-photosensitive epileptic to suddenly start experiencing photosensitivity, and it will not cause a non-epileptic to start suffering from epilepsy.

[spudcooper 0]

So As It Seems No One Is Quite Sure How Many Of You Use Strobe Lights In Your Roadshow? And Is It Worth The Risk And Hastle?

[transeurope 0]

Personally, I don't think its worth the hassle for a small mobile operator.

 

I am a bit puzzled by Andy's old wives tales comment.

 

Anyone can develop photo-sensetive epilepsy at any time. Though it is rare.

 

Therefore, if you are non-photo-sensetive-epileptic before going into a hall where one is being used (ie never had it in the past) you can leave the hall "a photo-sensetive epileptic" having had an incident triggered by the strobe.

 

Whether or not it is tuatologically correct to say the strobe "caused" the epilepsy, I think most people would perceive this as the strobe "causing" the epilepsy, as a person who has had one incident is more liekly to have another from a lesser stimulus.

 

What you can definitely say is that an undiagnosed photo-sensetive epileptic who had a first incident triggered by a strobe in a disco is subsequently more likely to have an incident caused by a less intense stimulus (eg cycling through beams of sunlight in a forest).

 

If that person had never gone to that disco they may never have been sensetized and may never have developed any other incident.

[Andy Westcott 0]

"I am a bit puzzled by Andy's old wives tales comment"

 

Hmmm... That bit about strobes not causing a non-photosensitive epileptic to suddenly become photosensitive was lifted almost as-is from the HSE website, and I incorporate it in my warning notices, not that I feel the need to fit up a strobe very often these days.

 

I can only assume the HSE know what they are talking about.... http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/smile.gif

[transeurope 0]

To go into my personal knowledge of this would be to betray a trust, but I do have pretty extensive epileptic smarts for a non-sufferer, non-medico.

 

It is my understanding that once you have an incident, you are more likely to have another. That is for example the reasoning behind the bar on car driving until you are incident free for a long period. (Could there possibly be any other?)

 

It is my understanding that there are thresholds of stimulus to be passed before an incident is triggered.

 

Each incident damages the brain, that is definitely a fact, and that damage may cause the type of brain re-wiring that lowers epilepsy thresholds. (Or it may cause a mild loss of cognitive function or memory).

 

Therefore, someone who would not, for example, ever have an incident resulting from cycling under trees in strong sunlight (and believe me this is possible) may have an incident from the kind of highly irresponsible all-night-on-non-stop type of strobe use that we have all seen once in a while.

 

Having had their first incident they will then be more likely to have a second, at a slightly lower threshold (eg someone using a strobe responsibly) and so on, until they reach a stage where they are quite "photo-prone".

 

I am quite surprised the HSE put that on their site.

 

Of course I accept your bona fides Andy, I would tend to believe what I read from a government source also.

[Welsh Audio Man 21 0]

QUOTE (Gary @ Jun 3 2006, 12:30 PM)

IMO strobes are on the same "Don't bother anymore" list, alongside smoke, haze, bubbles, snow, Windows, pyrotechnics, dry-ice....

Is smoke machines against Health and Safety Laws then? I used one last night! http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/fear.gif

 

I love my smoke machine! http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/sad.gif http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/sad.gif

[transeurope 0]

No, smoke machines are not "banned" at all, but listen up as this may benefit you.

 

The various concoctions used to produce smoke are being looked at quite closely by experts. Some people feel that they leave a residue that builds up in your system.

 

As there are no real standards in smoke production (note I said "real") it is very difficult to say whether a particular smoke fluid is safe.

 

There is a lot of controversey right now about whether chemical manufacturers in general should have to prove that a product is safe before launching on the European market. The EU is leaning towards saying companies should, the manufacturers are saying that will throw a lot of people out of work.

 

I too love smoke as an effect. Really.

 

I have stopped using it pretty much though.

 

Until this test procedure becomes law properly your choice is:

Do I risk my kidneys or do I ensure Man With Merc (shorthand for small business owner) gets to produce something that he feels entitled to make, but doesn't really know is safe.

 

Kidney failure is what makes older woman have huge ankles btw. It can cause breathing issues. It can mean a lot of other things.

 

These are just suspicions people have, nothing is proven, but it never will be unless proper tests are put in place.

 

Which would you fancy? http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/smile.gif

[Welsh Audio Man 21 0]

I didn't know smoke can effect kidneys! I do find im coughing alot after i use a smoke machine though! My Machine is very old too (Powerfog MAX). So im guessing that its most likely going to be damaging!

 

I hope they make a Decent smoke machine which is safe and harmless! I find smoke works really well with lights! Would be a shame to loose it!

[Andy Westcott 0]

Transeurope, I accept your arguments concerning epilepsy - I don't have the knowledge or experience to do otherwise.

 

Re. smoke fluid:

I've looked at the smoke fluid containers I have here and none of them state the ingredients. The theory is (as I understand it) that a simple glycerol solution will do the trick, and this is supposed to be completely harmless as it is broken down within the body.

 

I'm assuming manufacturers add other chemicals to enhance performance - I agree there should be some research into possible side effects of these additives.

 

I suppose the safest smoke-like effect would be dry ice produced fog. It is, after all, simply water vapour.

 

Expensive, so I hear!

[DJ_Ajay 0]

Can I say a big thing everyone over looks is 'o-zone gas'. Strobe lights produce a toxic gas if run for a long period of time, more noticable in smaller venues.

 

http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/huh.gif

[Gary 0]

QUOTE (Andy Westcott @ Jun 6 2006, 06:44 PM)

I suppose the safest smoke-like effect would be dry ice produced fog. It is, after all, simply water vapour. Expensive, so I hear!

Expensive, difficult and in fact darn-right dangerous to store and even transport to a gig, plus the slight snag of the gas (carbon...mblmblmbl-oxide) which sends people to sleep.

 

Just to cover the latter two points. The sleeping gas effect was reported during a ballet, where one of the dancers was crouched hidden behind a rock, waiting for her cue to appear, dry ice effect covering her too, but something else happened on-stage (a fall?) and the crouching dancer was there in the fog-effect for a little longer than planned, then missed her cue - she had been temporarily sent off to sleep http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/sleep1.gif

 

Carrying dry-ice around in a cool-box from the chemical merchant (air products) tends to have a couple of problems - the huge lump of dry-ice that you start off with (use gloves - it'll weld to your fingers) melts into a rubic cube sized lump by the time you get to the gig. Not aided by the fact you need to keep opening the cool box to allow the gases to escape...otherwise - the coolbox cracks open...

[Andy Westcott 0]

"Strobe lights produce a toxic gas if run for a long period of time"

 

Huh??

 

Anyone care to elaborate?

The only toxic gas I can imagine being produced by a long-duration strobing would possibly be burning electronic components......

 

But as always, I'm willing to be educated. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/smile.gif

[Tom 0]

I think it could be due to the massive amount of UV light which breaks down an oxygen creating a free radical which forms with an other oxygen to get ozone.

Could be something with the heat too?

 

[transeurope 0]

OK, this is all news to me, but there again that's why I come to forums: to learn, as well as disseminate my own pathetic few tips...

 

I don't know anything about this website, I just found it surfing as a result of this thread, so I offer it up for discussion, while not vouching for it:

 

http://members.misty.com/don/xesafe.html#o

 

 

[Andy Westcott 0]

OK, thanks for the link - some interesting reading there.

 

My home brew strobe has never caused detectable (smellable) ozone to form, and this is presumably because the tubes are of glass rather than quartz, meaning the short wavelength UV has been blocked. Also, the front lens is of polycarbonate, reducing UV levels even further. (The case used to house a sodium lamp and ballast)

 

As I used to run it only for a few seconds at a time, no real heat built up in the tubes either, despite being run at over 400% of their recommended rating.

 

I wasn't aware that xenon tubes were sometimes made of quartz, so maybe that's the reason for the warning posted by DJ_Ajay, although I'd have thought certain regulations would have restricted the sale of 'dangerous' devices like this, but maybe this is an unregulated area.

 

We live and learn. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/smile.gif