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Thats why I went for QSC because they are quality amps and used in many club installations. Carlsbro are an OK speaker manufacturer, by no means the best, but by far not the worst, I would never ever buy any speaker or amp equipment made by:







...and a few others!


simply because the quality is awfull.


Just brought Carlsbro speakers, after found out Prosound do a identical copy made in the same factory in china! Gamma 15 active, Prosound sold in maplins.

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Beat me to it, I was just going to point out the ignorance of that statement as Carlsbrough and Pro Sound are one in the same.


PLASA guide lines which are generally accepted in the industry suggest 6w per head RMS...therefore to do a party for 200 people 1.2k is about right...I wouldn't wing it with 400w.


Also, I use bass bins everywhere regardless of venue size. bins take up less room than tripods, they are safer and the sound is better, there is a massive difference between the bass produced by a full range cab and that of a decent sub. A good sub will go down to 40hz or below and it adds another dimension to the sound, it drives the party along and makes people want to dance and even old people like bass as its not in the least offensive like top end can be.


To say that clients don't notice is rubbish...of course they do. I went into a take-away the other night on my way home after spending all night listening to my system, in the take-away they had some big double 15 Sound Labs with lots of bullets in the top and they drove them off a EP2500, they were blasting out Bob Marley and it sounded awful, the sound was muddy in the middle and too shrill in the top and the bass was just out of sinc and flapping all over the place . Even using a better amp with a higher damping factor wouldn't have helped as the drivers can't cope with it anyway.


Fair enough if anyone is happy with Sound Labs, Skytecs or Messengers then fine but please don't go saying it doesn't make a difference and people don't notice because that's rubbish.


So...how many friends have I got on here now :D

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I take what your saying Andy Goodtimes but not all soundlabs have bullets and a sweeping statement about a brands complete range (not everything they make is bad for the money.. the karaoke tv stands aren't bad lol )based on a kebab/pizza etc purchase :lol:


Most speakers sound bad in takeaways as a former custom installer i have fitted many systems in restaurants and take aways and homes lots of tiled surfaces and sheets of flat stainless can make even good speakers sound bad also the noise from the equipment itself(extractor fans etc) hampers performance considerably having said that ..yes some of the range do sound bad tongue out icon


I have fitted James loudspeaker custom install speakers and the Kef reference Ranges in some very rich footballers kitchens and even those sounded poor compared to what they are capable of sounding like.

Room acoustics are a major factor.

I take the point of bass bins but In a small room, the resonant frequencies of your room are higher,generally in the region where you don't want so much bass reinforcement, this can make it sound boomy and not fast ..so proper positioning to correct this can be more of a challenge, especially if your speakers or sub are large.


most people (average joe customer)equate low bass with loud 60-80hz frequencies.

Few have actually heard a true low bass note from a audio system.

The wavelength of a 20hz bass note is twenty feet. To play a true low base note (20hz and below) you will need a large room to accomplish this.


I have been to the mission loudspeakers designers test rooms and went in the anechoic chamber which was freaky reflected sound is very normal silence is not!

They showed us and demonstrated in one big room some top end speakers power amps fed from master tape recordings(was a few years back) i started to feel ill ...as i felt the bass rather than heard it.


I have experienced higher fidelity systems than any Disco speakers or system i have heard ..this is my point of reference along with going to live concerts. lets face it even mid level systems are poor in comparison you just have to choose the best compromise for what you do and where you do it.


One size does not fit all

Rob Star Entertainments
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I agree with a lot of that but I know enough to seperate poor acoostics from just pizz poor equipment.


I know its also difficult to get one size to fit all, I recently went from a Bose L1/B1 system in an attempt to find a system that was nice and warm for low level back-ground, loud enough for 400+ noisey party goers whilst still combining the stylish looks and I know its not easy but I believe I have found the best compramise there is on the market.


My advice to anyone on a tight budget looking to set up a sound system is to go for good condition second-hand, generally it will be a better sound, higher SPL and better quality and able to take the riggers of a tough life on the road for longer.

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  • 3 weeks later...

"I use bass bins everywhere regardless of venue size" "it drives the party along and makes people want to dance and even old people like bass as its not in the least offensive like top end can be."


Totally agree with Andy's comment.


Interesting about the PLASA guidelines, never heard that before. They are in the business of selling 'watts', but to be fair 1.2k sounds about right for 200 people. I currently use 2 x 350W RMS cabs and a 300W RMS sub.


If doing a party for 250-300 guests, I think you would be safe with a 1.2k rig, not all 300 guests will be up dancing at once.

Edited by Dave80s
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  • 4 weeks later...

You cannot make blanket statements about brands I find.


It all comes down to the specific items design brief and whether it happens to have been one of the good 'uns or bad 'uns.....


Behringer is a favourite to bash so i'll use some examples...


DCX2496 Ultradrive - without a doubt THE best LMS on the market below £500 (and then some). Teathing problems with first batches caused by poor IDC headers put some people off, but they have impressive specs, good sound quality (better than some 'better' brands in much higher price brackets) and an intuitive user interface.


'Composer' range of compressors - not exceptional sounding but again, you've got to spend a lot more money to better them. Many hire/PA firms still use them exclusively in their 'B' rigs and have done so for many years. Dependable but cheap enough to carry spares. Earlier ones are often considered nicer sounding before they added all the digital stuff


XM8500 mics (and XM2k's) - cheap copy of the SM58 but with some refinements that people actually prefer to the SM58. Certainly you can get 3 for the price of Shure and they're robust too.


But again, they also have their dogs (some of the EQ's, not nice sounding, poor fader reliability, etc) I think one of the reasons why you read more tales of failure is simply that there's so many more of the units out there.



I would advocate spending money on decent 2nd hand gear over new stuff thats of lesser heritage. It should last well being a good brand, it will devalue less (some hire company has likely taken the initial hit on depreciation) and it will have a better support package in place should something go wrong as they are in the business of keeping critical gigs running, whatever the circumstances. QSC had an amp turned around and back in a friends possession within 3 working days, inc shipping time.

Buying this sort of kit also means that you should have no problem moving it on when you're done with it, as it's still desirable. Martin audio modular systems still fetch good money on ebay despite being some decades old now.


I've recently sold some of my bass bins as empty cabs and drivers separately. The Precision Devices drivers actually sold for MORE than i paid for them new after having them for 2 years!

DIY plans and pro audio related technical discussions


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  • 4 weeks later...

I thought I recognised the username!


Listen to Norty303 - he know's what he's talking about

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