Jump to content
Dj's United

Recommended Posts

If you dont like people looking at you then you most certainly should not be on any kind of stage !

Edited by C.S

I will try anything,once!

 

The Cornish will arise again !

Manager of the Andy Harris Fan Club.

Keep pasties Cornish

Link to post
Share on other sites
>
  • Replies 64
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I think some of you, notably Nik, are being overly harsh on Welshy here, especially when you consider the following:

 

QUOTE (welshyDJ18 @ Aug 26 2006, 10:42 AM)
Have worked with this band before, this is the same band that took great joy, last time, in kicking my speaker tripod over, with the JBL Actives i was using at the time!

It wasn't by accident, and when i asked them why, the drummer said " it looks too big, makes us look a mess and disgrace, go put up smaller, half decent speakers"!

The damage to the speaker was not worth repairing  http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/sad.gif

http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/huh.gif No one other than DJ Geco seems to have batted an eyelid at this shocking revelation. They most definitely had it coming and the fact that they blew the speakers in the sound check is hopefully bad kharma coming back to haunt them http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/rolleyes.gif

Welshy was a little over enthusiastic in his initial post but he apologised a few times and yet still continued receiving stick from some of the "angels" on here http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/nono.gif

Back to the original post, I found it hard to make out whether Steve was complaining about the band taking up all the stage or simply mentioning it http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/533.gif

Considering the size of this tiny stage it doesn't look like the band had much choice but to take up all the stage area so I don't see a problem.

 

(This is a general comment and not directed at Steve) As has been mentioned some DJs create their own problems when it comes to working with live acts due to starting off with a negative attitude and expecting problems. Being friendly and co-operative when it comes to working with all other service providers at a wedding, corporate event etc, will give you a far easier life.

Anthony Winyard Entertainment www.awe-dj.co.uk, Entertaining London & the South-East!

 

Click here to LIKE The Funky Penguin on Facebook.

www.facebook.com/awe.dj

Link to post
Share on other sites

Band Vs DJ...............DJ Vs Band

 

This is where the problem is because we are both on the same side - to ensure that our common client is given the best possible service. (read that as a client who is common to both of us rather than a client who is common http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/tongue.gif )

 

It's all about compromise - if it's a small stage then I let them have it and set up at the side - no big deal for me & no hassle either. Perhaps it's because I used to play in a band that gives me this take but I don't see them as opponents (just a warm up act http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif )

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

QUOTE (Eskie @ Aug 28 2006, 02:35 AM)
I think some of you, notably Nik, are being overly harsh on Welshy here, especially when you consider the following:

QUOTE (welshyDJ18 @ Aug 26 2006, 10:42 AM)
Have worked with this band before, this is the same band that took great joy, last time, in kicking my speaker tripod over, with the JBL Actives i was using at the time!

It wasn't by accident, and when i asked them why, the drummer said " it looks too big, makes us look a mess and disgrace, go put up smaller, half decent speakers"!

The damage to the speaker was not worth repairing  http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/sad.gif

http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/huh.gif No one other than DJ Geco seems to have batted an eyelid at this shocking revelation. They most definitely had it coming and the fact that they blew the speakers in the sound check is hopefully bad kharma coming back to haunt them http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/rolleyes.gif

Welshy was a little over enthusiastic in his initial post but he apologised a few times and yet still continued receiving stick from some of the "angels" on here http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/nono.gif

Back to the original post, I found it hard to make out whether Steve was complaining about the band taking up all the stage or simply mentioning it http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/533.gif

Considering the size of this tiny stage it doesn't look like the band had much choice but to take up all the stage area so I don't see a problem.

 

(This is a general comment and not directed at Steve) As has been mentioned some DJs create their own problems when it comes to working with live acts due to starting off with a negative attitude and expecting problems. Being friendly and co-operative when it comes to working with all other service providers at a wedding, corporate event etc, will give you a far easier life.

Sorry if you think I have been over harsh on Welshy as you put it.. That was not my intention...

 

As per the speaker being kicked over by the drummer.. I would have informed the band that the damage caused would have to be paid for... As this was criminal damage. Just the same as if some one had say done something to your car and you had seen them... And yes the Police may have had to be called....

 

 

My main reason for my original post was that I felt he was gloating at the fact he had made £500 out of there misfortune and took great pleasure in placing his bigger speakers infront of theres... And as I said if it was the other way round most of you guys would be in uproar on this site that a band firstly had the neurve to set there bigger speakers infront of the DJU members and then cause he had a problem they charged him money to plug into there PA....

 

I would suggest that If I had had such a bad experience with this band before as in the criminal damage to my Speaker, I would probably have refused the gig in the first place...

 

 

I stand by what I have said above 100% but will appologise to Welshy and any one else if they think my comments were to harsh

 

 

 

Nik

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

It doesn't bother me if a band takes all the stage, particularly at weddings, as I aim for the "discreet" appearance anyway, and if I want to be seen, then I come out from behind the rig. Having said that, I try to set up the rig side on to the guests anyway.

 

The only time I have had a problem with a band, and it was not totally their fault, though they could have had a bit more forethought, was at a local hotel. A large function room for a dinner dance with an Abba tribute band. Because of the layout of the room, after they had filled the stage next to the dancefloor, the only place left for me to set up was nowhere near the dancefloor. I couldn't even get my speakers near the dancefloor.

 

Although it made for an awkward working environment, it ended up a great night for me. A full dance floor whenever I was on, and loads of thank you's at the end. Mind you, there were at least 4 hen parties there, which always makes a difference.

Quitting Smoking & Drinking doesn't make you live longer

 

It just feels like it.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I always let bands pick their space and work around them, also ask for a track list so i dont play any of their set .

I will try anything,once!

 

The Cornish will arise again !

Manager of the Andy Harris Fan Club.

Keep pasties Cornish

Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (UKHero @ Aug 28 2006, 09:34 AM)
QUOTE (Eskie @ Aug 28 2006, 02:35 AM)
I think some of you, notably Nik, are being overly harsh on Welshy here, especially when you consider the following:

QUOTE (welshyDJ18 @ Aug 26 2006, 10:42 AM)
Have worked with this band before, this is the same band that took great joy, last time, in kicking my speaker tripod over, with the JBL Actives i was using at the time!

It wasn't by accident, and when i asked them why, the drummer said " it looks too big, makes us look a mess and disgrace, go put up smaller, half decent speakers"!

The damage to the speaker was not worth repairing  http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/sad.gif

http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/huh.gif No one other than DJ Geco seems to have batted an eyelid at this shocking revelation. They most definitely had it coming and the fact that they blew the speakers in the sound check is hopefully bad kharma coming back to haunt them http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/rolleyes.gif

Welshy was a little over enthusiastic in his initial post but he apologised a few times and yet still continued receiving stick from some of the "angels" on here http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/nono.gif

Back to the original post, I found it hard to make out whether Steve was complaining about the band taking up all the stage or simply mentioning it http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/533.gif

Considering the size of this tiny stage it doesn't look like the band had much choice but to take up all the stage area so I don't see a problem.

 

(This is a general comment and not directed at Steve) As has been mentioned some DJs create their own problems when it comes to working with live acts due to starting off with a negative attitude and expecting problems. Being friendly and co-operative when it comes to working with all other service providers at a wedding, corporate event etc, will give you a far easier life.

Sorry if you think I have been over harsh on Welshy as you put it.. That was not my intention...

 

As per the speaker being kicked over by the drummer.. I would have informed the band that the damage caused would have to be paid for... As this was criminal damage. Just the same as if some one had say done something to your car and you had seen them... And yes the Police may have had to be called....

 

 

My main reason for my original post was that I felt he was gloating at the fact he had made £500 out of there misfortune and took great pleasure in placing his bigger speakers infront of theres... And as I said if it was the other way round most of you guys would be in uproar on this site that a band firstly had the neurve to set there bigger speakers infront of the DJU members and then cause he had a problem they charged him money to plug into there PA....

 

I would suggest that If I had had such a bad experience with this band before as in the criminal damage to my Speaker, I would probably have refused the gig in the first place...

 

 

I stand by what I have said above 100% but will appologise to Welshy and any one else if they think my comments were to harsh

 

 

 

Nik

I am with you Nik, I have NEVER heard of a member of any band WILFULLY kicking over someone elses equipment.

 

Welshy, are you absolutley sure that you are not a little "confused" as to what actually happened re: the kicking over and damaging of your speaker? Surely you would have recourse to the action of recovering the cost of the damage at least and as pointed out, you could have involved the police in this matter. And you went on to work withg these guys again???

 

Obtaining a set list is the best idea, there is little point in either artiste replicating the others set.

 

I work with bands regularly and also do the PA for bands, YES, some of them can be a nightmare with their attitudes and egos. Conversley, some are an absolute pleasure to work with.

 

I remember one band coming from Essex to the local golf club. We were awaiting two members to arrive, the general manager and I were talking to the rest of the band when the lead singer turned up and loudly said " I have spent two hours looking for this s:cense:thole!" not realising that the GM was stood next to him, at which point the GM turned round to him and cooly said "Hi! I am :cense:, the General manager of "This s:cense:thole!"" You could have heard a pin drop............. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites

QUOTE

Have worked with this band before, this is the same band that took great joy, last time, in kicking my speaker tripod over, with the JBL Actives i was using at the time!

 

if this was factual then it is wilful criminal damage and a matter for the police there and then, and if this was your experience of working with them previously then why accept another booking with them?. also in the original post welshy mentions that the band blew up their own speakers yet he was then willing to hire them a set of his own?, is this not a little reckless given that the band have no respect for their own equipment why would you think that they would look after yours any better?

"The voice of the devil is heard in our land"

 

'War doesn't determine who is right, war determines who is left, and you wont win this war.'

Link to post
Share on other sites

ok, let me just answer any questions that have been raised....

 

Firstly, im 100% sure that my speaker was kicked over, as i witnessed it myself, at the time, i wasn't aware that i could get the police involved, otherwise i would have! For the cost to have repaired, it was cheaper to buy new speakers....

 

I usually charge at least £300 to engineer a band, i charged £500 as i had 3 hours to drive 30 odd miles to my lock-up, get all my engineering equipment, drive another 30 miles back, and rewire my whole rig to accomodate the PA system (had to mic up drums, etc too, so more work as to balancing the instruments)

 

I took on this job as it was booked in last year, before they had decided to get a band, i didnt want to let them down by being selfish and saying "im not working with that band!"

 

they blew there speakers of no fault other than the fact that they drove them too hard in such a large room! For a band, their rig was too small for that venue!

 

The £500 charge wasn't out of spite, but what i would have charged under those circumstances anyway.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's getting exciting on this thread ain't it!

 

A lot of bands talk about DJ's in just the same way DJ's talk about bands - obstinate, big-headed, egotistical, etc. We all need to avoid that sort of press.

 

As an ex-band member I have witnessed many big-headed bands who try and outdo WHOEVER they play alongside. This could be a supporting band, another band on the bill or a fellow entertainer including DJ's. Some ego's have to be seen to be believed.

 

My advice is to remain as professional as always, using a common sense approach where necessary and always remembering that the band are the focal point. Setting up at the side of a stage, fitting yourself in a tight, dark corner and not playing anything the band will play are all pre-requisites for an amiable night.

 

My favourite story was when I was drumming for Hero and we played at a Student Union chairty night with four other bands. At that time, we were considered quite big in the local area so we were placed second on the bill. When we turned up at our allotted time, nobody had even set-up because nobody wanted to be first. We walked in, set up, did our five songs, broke down and went home. It felt like we were in a completely different class to the rest of the bands that night.

[insert quirky comment]

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you think about it......

 

How many DJ's have big ego's?

How many bands have bigger ego's?

NOTE: THIS IS A GENERAL COMMENT NOT AIMED AT ANYBODY.

Put the two together, and there will be a clash.

 

I lke Pauls 'discreet' attitude of "I'm not here......" "DJ? What DJ??" http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/tongue.gif

Edited by iany
<a href="http://www.djassociates.org"><img src="http://www.djassociates.org/anims/compres_banner.gif" alt="Join the DJ Associates Disc Jockey Association" border="0" width="468" height="60"></a>

Link to post
Share on other sites

The kicking over of the speaker excepted. (The guy should be billed)

 

Perhaps it's me but I tend to 'Roadie' bands I am appearing with or supporting.

 

I help out in every way I can but I am prepaired to to say 'No' if it's going to compromise my performance later. Generally most of the guys are 'Pumped' getting ready to perform so a little leaway is given to allow for this.

 

BUT............

 

Some bands are a pain in the nether regions just as I suppose some DJ's are. Ego does play a big part in both worlds. Respect does go a long way though.

 

As for £500 for a Pa hire brought to the door at short notice. Slightly pricey but reasonable in the circumstances. Who else could they get hold of? I think there would be very few 'friends' around if the bands attitude was the same elsewhere.

 

As the saying goes "what goes round comes around" How many of us would not try to recover a loss given the opportunity. I expect the cost of support would have been different if the attitude had been different.

 

(All IMHO)

 

Jimbo

 

 

 

Digital Fusion Entertainments

 

Bose L1 system user.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all - I joined a while back but this is my first post!!! I've decided to post on this thread as I'm a drummer in a Cover Band.

 

The cover band I'm in provides a DJ option for a disco as well the live band, this way we don't have any problems with DJs. I DJ when the band is not on stage and then jump back onto the drums when the band is back on. This setup is great as we can offer a complete package to customers, be incharge of the whole show, and at least part of the package is going to get people up dancing...oh and we charge more money too!

 

This band and the previous band used to tolerate DJs in the past; believe me we came across some right toerags over the years i.e. mixing into the end of the band song at the end of a set, playing tracks we were going to play (even tho they had our set), setting up in the wrong area, and them being in a huff cos' we got to the venue before them! Now we don't have this problem...well that's a lie because we did have one incident with a DJ last week in London who was not happy about the room we left him on the stage! Well as a gesture of good will we allowed him to connect to our desk and use our Mackie active tops and subs to play his music - he was well pleased!!! And I got on with him like a house on fire...even to the point of him getting me drinks while I was drumming and vice-versa for him DJ-ing.

 

The thing I notice is people arrive stressed to gigs - DJs and band members. I find that if you let 'em cool down for 30 minutes and keep out their way then eventually a compromise or solution will be found. Most important thing is to keep your frustrations out of view of the customers...that goes for DJs and band members alike!

 

Cheers

 

Speak soon!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing I notice is people arrive stressed to gigs - DJs and band members. I find that if you let 'em cool down for 30 minutes and keep out their way then eventually a compromise or solution will be found. Most important thing is to keep your frustrations out of view of the customers...that goes for DJs and band members alike

 

 

 

 

 

 

A few wise words there my friend

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well this is turning into a good thread.

 

My (the) original post was mearly a comment about a thread on bands i did a while ago. In my 17 yrs experiance of doing disco`s I find that most bands are selfish with the space to work in and couldn`t give a monkies about where the disco will go. It makes no difference to them whether the stage is 4` or 44`.

 

This was again the case at this gig I did. If you read the first post here it says we agreed to meet at 2pm to organise the space between us. When I arrived the band had been and gone. When I approached the room manager he said they didn`t care about the Disco.

 

At the end of the day I don`t mind where I set up as long as its within reason.

 

As with UKhero`s comments. I was the MC on this evening. I was organising the whole event therefor I was the focal point , not a band who did two, 30mins spots in a 7hr period.

 

 

Steve

 

5 European cups and 18 leagues, that`s what we call history.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

QUOTE (stevemitchell @ Sep 1 2006, 09:14 PM)
Well this is turning into a good thread.

My (the) original post was mearly a comment about a thread on bands i did a while ago. In my 17 yrs experiance of doing disco`s I find that most bands are selfish with the space to work in and couldn`t give a monkies about where the disco will go. It makes no difference to them whether the stage is 4` or 44`.

This was again the case at this gig I did. If you read the first post here it says we agreed to meet at 2pm to organise the space between us. When I arrived the band had been and gone. When I approached the room manager he said they didn`t care about the Disco.

At the end of the day I don`t mind where I set up as long as its within reason.

As with UKhero`s comments. I was the MC on this evening. I was organising the whole event therefor I was the focal point , not a band who did two, 30mins spots in a 7hr period.

No i am sorry you were not the focal point... You, if you were MCing were an anchor for the night. In which case if I had been in that situation I would have used a radio mic and done the MC bit from the stage but no real problem doing even that from where you were set up...

 

I go back to your pictures there is no way both of you would have got on that stage.. I understand your anger at the band turning up before you.. But if they had arrived at the same time and were the most agreeable people on the planet, can I ask you how you would have suggested you go about setting up with such a small stage and so much equipment... Things in this busness are very rarly ideal and its always a balance of compromises and make do's especialy where space is concerned...

 

Nik

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

QUOTE (UKHero @ Sep 2 2006, 05:11 AM)

I would have used a radio mic and done the MC bit from the stage

I go back to your pictures there is no way both of you would have got on that stage..
Nik

I did use a radio mic.

 

Secondly there was no anger. Again back to the original post I was suggesting MOST, NOT ALL bands are selfish with the space to work in.

 

I have worked in this venue for years and have worked with bands larger and smaller than this one.

 

Before anything goes on the stage it can be made larger by pulling out both the sides and the front.. The stairs do not get used so therefore the stgae could of been extented both to the left and the right. This way, if the band were considerate during their set up and didn`t have the attitude `we don`t care about the disco` both the band and the disco could of worked on the stage...

 

May I quote once again I didn`t mind where I set up!!! http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/ranting.gif

Steve

 

5 European cups and 18 leagues, that`s what we call history.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

As someone who does lots of regular wedding work, normally in Ireland there's the band to start off with, who normally play from 7-9, then there's a break for the buffet and then around 9.30pm is disco time through til round 1am

 

What we normally do is set up the speakers etc in the afternoon, and then wire up the mixer etc whilst the band is playing or taking a break

 

 

Most bands certainly the ones that do weddings alot are great people to work with..

 

Like most bands have less equipment, many djs just use a computer loaded up with the songs they we need for the night, so that space quite often isn't a problem nowadays, of course it varies in different places!

 

And the important thing to remember if you are a band or a wedding dj, you are there to provide entertainment, for the couple's big day....

 

Egos really have no place at wedding discos or anywhere else in entertainment for that matter!

Link to post
Share on other sites

QUOTE (stevemitchell @ Sep 2 2006, 08:12 AM)
QUOTE (UKHero @ Sep 2 2006, 05:11 AM)

I would have used a radio mic and done the MC bit from the stage

I go back to your pictures there is no way both of you would have got on that stage..
Nik

I did use a radio mic.

 

Secondly there was no anger. Again back to the original post I was suggesting MOST, NOT ALL bands are selfish with the space to work in.

 

I have worked in this venue for years and have worked with bands larger and smaller than this one.

 

Before anything goes on the stage it can be made larger by pulling out both the sides and the front.. The stairs do not get used so therefore the stgae could of been extented both to the left and the right. This way, if the band were considerate during their set up and didn`t have the attitude `we don`t care about the disco` both the band and the disco could of worked on the stage...

 

May I quote once again I didn`t mind where I set up!!! http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/ranting.gif

I understand what you are saying but unless you set up behind the drummer then symetrically it would have looked very odd both of you on the stage...

 

 

As always each to there own... That is what makes us different. And I only say what and how I would have handled it...

 

As I have said before I would not of even contemplated taking the stage...But that is me.. Why is it so important to have the stage???

 

I dont see it... If its a sound issue then set your PA rig up at the sides of the stage or dance floor and your deck etc over in the corner... Again just what I might do in that situation...

 

Nik

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Guys NRG here lol

 

Well being a band lol, i can sort of describe my experiences of problem DJ's that we have had, usually when we perform at corporate events and weddings and parties now, i provide the DJ facility included in the price.

 

The main reason why i started to do this, is that because our act is very visual with the amount of gear we carry, some of you may have seen lol, we need a lot of room.

 

We used to turn up to weddings where the DJ had gone extremely early in the afternoon like 2pm set up all over the stage and then when we arrive at 6.00pm to 7.00pm you cant set up, and the DJ has not arrived and out of respect for other peoples gear you cant just start moving things.

 

I find that problems occur with DJ's if they are an Ex Act and therefore see you as a threat to their ego or they are a Karaoke Singer Freak, and rather than get on with the job in hand and work together they almost turn it into a competition.

 

You know the type, ohhh youve got them lights well ive got ten in the van and ive got 5 of them amps, yet funny they never seem to have them with lol.

 

I work with DJ's every week in nightclub venues and you need to work together, i think that some DJ's are too keen to turn up early and just use the stage as first come first served.

 

I did a wedding 12 months ago we turned up and the DJ had turned up in the afternoon at the hotel and just set up on the stage, And there was no room at all, so rather than kick up a fuss i moved some tables and went across a back wall, while i was just about to start setting up, the bride walked in and went nuts that we couldnt set up on stage, The DJ then walked in and she requested that he had to move his gear off the stage, and he had been told specifically by the hotel manager and the bride that he was not to go on stage but at the side on the dancefloor.

 

Now bear in mind i was like well to be honest i can appreciate how long it took to set up and i said no it doenst matter we will go over here, but the bride was like NO ive booked a live act , they were told so they will have to move it.

 

So the DJ stunned me turned round and said to the bride, Im telling you now im not moving this and if you insist ill just go home, so have it your way, so i could see it was getting nasty i stepped in and said hey mate listen its her wedding day she wants it to be right, listen you know the script here illl give you a hand to set up and we will work together but at the end of the day if it was your wedding you wouldnt like it.

 

He said im not moving tough titty you should have been here earlier like me, anyhow he turned round told us all to f http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/censored2.gif off and then packed his gear and said have a **** wedding and you got no DJ now, Anyhow i always take the laptop just in case at wedding, anyhow we had a great night and they gave me the DJ's money as well.

 

Ive read some of the comments on here by DJ's and you guys have got your heads all screwed on in the right place i just think a small minority of DJ's that choose to be un cooperative and make it hard lol

Edited by Paul_Smith
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

Getting on with bands doesn't only help the evening flow but can have other benefits. I've just received an email from a band leader who has been asked to recommend a disco to go along with them for a wedding next year.

 

Here's his experience of DJs

 

QUOTE
Paul, I was impressed with your very professional set-up and manner...no other DJ (and we meet a lot) was ever so pleasant and helpful to us, and you recognised that we are all "mature" fellows, and just need a wee bit of patience. Some of the very young DJs can be a bit ignorant with us and grab all the space on the stage without consultation, and we have to play on the floor. A bit of give and take goes a long way. Look forward to working with you again, Paul.
Link to post
Share on other sites

I have worled with many bands when resident in a club, now at private functions and I have received lots of bookings with the band as well because we have worked together and got on very well.

I now do two gigs a month with a comedian and two different venue's and both nights the room are solid. But we work well together and it must show because we get lots of comments of do you always work together etc etc......

 

But then again, I have bad nights with bands, nd I am the most easy going person going......It always seems to be with bands who are not as good as they think....

 

One of the good nights was with NRG, probably about 6 years ago now when they where first starting off............It must be said, they are two of the nicest people you could work with and put on an excellent show.

 

Hopefully will work with them again in the future......

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...



×
×
  • Create New...