Dedicated Dual Mp3 Player

[ChrisPointon 0]

Please vote in this poll, even if you ignore all the other ones http://www.chrispointon.f2s.com/Forum/html/emoticons/tongue.gif , since I may use it to pressure the manufacturers at the PLASA, but not if it only gets 10 votes lol

 

This poll is to indicate the demand for an integrated Dual Hard Drive system which DOESN'T require the use of a PC or Laptop for storage. Basically like your existing Citronic, Kam, Denon etc Dual Cd player but using two hard drives instead of CD Trays for MP3 formats.

 

I am more than aware that there are some systems similar to this available (Numark - PCDJ, Citronic etc) but these still rely on the addition of a PC or Laptop.

 

Please cast your vote - it takes around 2 seconds, in fact less time than it has taken for you to read this http://www.chrispointon.f2s.com/Forum/html/emoticons/tongue.gif http://www.chrispointon.f2s.com/Forum/html/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Tom 0]

I quite like the Numark ones as you can just upload your set list with out having to scroll thru thousands of mp3 on a tinny screen on your dual cd player.

[Gary 0]

I'm probably going to sound "picky" here but...

 

What I'd like is a dual cd-deck (rack mounted) with 2 CD trays and either 1 or 2 USER UPGRADABLE harddrive(s) inbetween/under the two drives.

 

The reason why I say User upgradable is simply due to the plummeting costs (per gigabyte) of Harddrives nowadays, although I realise this could start leveling off soon.

 

Sticking an 80gig harddrive into this "super Mp3 unit" TODAY, would cost a manufacturer around (say) £60. In a couple of years time, however, a user running low on storage space could probably buy a drive thats twice as big for half the price.

 

Having CD-drives on the unit as well as the harddrives, would mean that I, (or the user) could load in their shop bought/home recorded CD's into the "Super MP3 unit" without having to connect a separate CD deck (Via Digital SPDIF I guess) or PC(via USB), to load tunes into the unit.

 

Having drives that are 8x, 16x or even 52x normal read speed, would allow entire CD's to be "fed" into the unit in the time it takes one tune on the other drive to play out.

 

I see the display of information being a critical issue here, as well as some kind of "Search by keyword" option being essential. EG: Search for any tunes by "Sanchez" or "Junior Senior" etc etc. I certainly wouldnt want to manually find track number 24,367 and mix it into track 11,843. So maybe a reasonably good multi-line display on-board, with a Video-out socket on the back for hooking up a TFT monitor, as an option.

 

 

[Tom 0]

What you have just described is a computer but is bound to be more expensive. I have a rack mount computer the case cost the same amount as the hardware inside which is silly but not many people are after them.

an 80GB hard drive is enough for my OS and just about all my 'mp3's though I don’t use mp3 format as it is lossy so i use ogg.

And with the passing with time audio formats will change and you might end up having a 1TB drive with uncompressed audio on it

[ChrisPointon 0]

QUOTE

I quite like the Numark ones as you can just upload your set list

 

So there goes a bloke who doesn't figure in audience request's to his "set" http://www.chrispointon.f2s.com/Forum/html/emoticons/mad.gif

 

When you do mobile work it's nigh on impossible to be able to "guess" what you'll be asked to play. Okay so you can load it with some of the "Favourites" that always fill the dancefloor, but you couldn't guess what you'll play and in what order

[DJTREV 0]

All this talk of 'uploading set lists' and PC's; as someone said on this site not long ago you might as well give them a tape,go home and return to turn the tape over,then ask them to turn off all the lights when they leave!! http://www.chrispointon.f2s.com/Forum/html/emoticons/363.gif

[NineLives 0]

TOM , where did you find a rack mount case for the computer ? ,

 

If any link conflicts with Chris's buisiness intrests , please PM it to me , thanks.

 

Or perhaps Chris has a store room full of them for sale http://www.chrispointon.f2s.com/Forum/html/emoticons/wink.gif

[ChrisPointon 0]

QUOTE

Or perhaps Chris has a store room full of them for sale

 

Haha, Fat Chance of that http://www.chrispointon.f2s.com/Forum/html/emoticons/smile.gif . I'll settle for a storeroom full of 30mw laser's at the moment, which should have been here on Monday, but HM customs and excise have taken a shine to them, and held them up http://www.chrispointon.f2s.com/Forum/html/emoticons/mad.gif

[Gary 0]

I'm happy enough to use a set list/play list for background music eg: During the munchie bit of a Dinner dance.

 

I'm lucky enough that my CD-decks remember the Program/play order of discs that I put in, automatically next time I insert that CD. Save's me having to manually program in Track 4, then 7, then 21, then 12....etc etc etc at the start of each Dinner dance.

 

I would "consider" the use of a "main music" eg: Mid-show, track listing EG: 6 songs from the 60's, or 8 Glam rock tunes of the 70's... but only in a "ready to be mixed - AS THE DJ sees fit" not on some auto-mix button.

 

Thats what the short-lived Pioneer CDX(?)-5000 cd-deck tried to offer. But was quickly (suspiciously quick) replaced by their 3000 dual CD-deck a mere few months after.

[Tom 0]

NineLives, you get get hold of rack mount cases from most good computer dealers, if not then these types of cases are normally found on studio sound sites. Or if you dont mind making a PC you can just search on the internet for a supplyer. http://www.chrispointon.f2s.com/Forum/html/emoticons/smile.gif

Hope that helps.

 

And as for not figuring in audience request's. We do have CD players you know, we can just fling on a CD if they want a track, but with MP3 you dont have to mess about looking for all your CDs.

Its a handy trick for ya.

http://www.chrispointon.f2s.com/Forum/html/emoticons/tongue.gif

[ChrisPointon 0]

QUOTE

Thats what the short-lived Pioneer CDX(?)-5000 cd-deck tried to offer. But was quickly (suspiciously quick) replaced by their 3000 dual CD-deck a mere few months after.

 

Gary, both the CMX-3000 and CMX-5000 are still currently available from Pioneer (and us @ £599.00 and £699.00 respectively) and one didn't replace the other, it was just that the CMX-5000 had a few more features aimed at the club D.J, and the CMX-3000 was the almost identical twin brother, with a lower price tag for all you thrifty mobile D.Js http://www.chrispointon.f2s.com/Forum/html/emoticons/smile.gif

 

 

QUOTE

And as for not figuring in audience request's. We do have CD players you know, we can just fling on a CD if they want a track, but with MP3 you dont have to mess about looking for all your CDs.

 

I'm sorry but call me old fashioned, but I don't really get the point of lugging all of that computer hardware from gig to gig. Okay, I could understand using MP3 in order to rid yourself of endless cd boxes, but from what you have said, you are still carrying around CD Players and cd's http://www.chrispointon.f2s.com/Forum/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif - so what is the point?, you may as well leave the pc at home

 

The point of this thread was to pressure the manufacturers for a MP3 player which was identical to the popular twin cd player format. Ideally in rack format and using 2x VFD or LCD multiline displays complete with command keys mounted in the "control" unit. The twin HDD would then be mounted in the second rack unit in place of the conventional CD Trays. Ideally the manufacturer could make the hd removeable, so it could be upgraded by the user (20gb replaced with a 40 or even 80gb! for example), being removeable it could also be slotted into some sort of HD cradle fitted to the users pc, so you simply pull out the hd, and slot it into your pc cradle to transfer material from pc to hdd. Failing that a USB socket could be mounted on the rear panel to enable the same, for the less experienced!.

 

Not too much to ask, and shouldn't be too expensive - portable MP3 players such as the nomad go for around £140 and boast similar features!.

 

The main point of this sort of player, would be to rid the need to carry around sensitive pc equipment, Dedicated MP3 chipsets do exist which would replace the motherboard and the on board flash memory would rid the need of standard memory. The MP3 chipsets already offer a sampling rate of over 300kbs making it compatible with high quality MP3's, and onboard stereo audio removes the need for a soundcard.

 

Better still - Nothing would be running under Windows http://www.chrispointon.f2s.com/Forum/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif .

 

The entire MP3 decoder is on a pcb measuring around 150mm x 60mm - making it easily fittable into a rack case. LCD or even 5" TFT would give you all the information required.

[Gary 0]

Im surprised at the Pioneer 5000 still being available. The Software bugs used to cause the unit to lock up (or at least its control panel) during certain operations. Especially Auto-mix... it would sit there for "ever" waiting for Sync between the tracks, and if that sync did'nt "appear" the song would end, but the player would still sit there, waiting.

 

As for the MP3 player. couldnt we turn the problem on its head....Try getting Nomad's manufacturers to add some DJ features, like Varispeed and Key Adjust/Lock.

 

 

[mobile_dj_crooks 0]

Gemeni released a dual mp3 player, dunno name, but u can prob check it out on http://www.pssl.com or http://www.idjnow.com/. w/e, but only drawback, u need a comp to burn mp3s....but other then that, really good...i would get it if i can afford it http://www.chrispointon.f2s.com/Forum/html/emoticons/sad.gif

[mikeee 0]

I think you will find that the Gemini unit plays both .cda & .mp3. There are a couple of drawbacks which I spent some time with Gemini, pointing out and trying to rectify, these mods should be incorporated in the next generation (I hope)

 

[ChrisPointon 0]

Actually the answer may be just around the corner http://www.chrispointon.f2s.com/Forum/html/emoticons/tongue.gif , i've had some pre-release information today, regarding the release of a new product which may fill the requirement.

 

I'm not going to give too much away at the moment since I know of at least one member of this forum who has strong links with another D.J outlet (Yeah nowhere is safe - they get bloody everywhere http://www.chrispointon.f2s.com/Forum/html/emoticons/042.gif )

 

Just to give you the basics:-

 

Totally Stand alone - no pc or software to carry around and no monitor

 

Built in 20gb hard drive - upgradable by user to 40 or 80gb - standard ISA drives will work okay.

 

Built in CDROM drive for converting CD to MP3 (to enable you to "rip" your standard audio cd's into the hdd) or for installing raw MP3 from a CDR. Of course, having a built in CDROM means that you will not only have the option of using it to install your MP3's - but also a dual cd player as back up in the same unit http://www.chrispointon.f2s.com/Forum/html/emoticons/smile.gif .

 

USB download facility from PC

 

Large back lit LCD Display - which will display Track info, MP3 Tags, bit rate, hdd space, time data etc. Not exactly TFT but what the hell!.

 

Not much more info at present since it's still only just going into production. However I'm hoping that there will be some sort of easy search facility for fast finding of tracks, artist etc. Since this took me ages to find, I'm also hoping to be the first to offer it when it's released.

 

Price - not sure yet, will know more in the coming weeks, possibly around £799 retail which puts it closer to £500 - £600 from me. Since this manufacturer is not represented in this country at present, I hoping to get a good deal from them http://www.chrispointon.f2s.com/Forum/html/emoticons/smile.gif .

 

We'll see what happens in the coming months, I'll post more when I've seen a sample and got some technical data on it.

 

Watch this space.

[mikeee 0]

Oh, Oh (after serveral large scotches) oh, I'm excited, please tell more.

[The Spindoctor 0]

Ok well I voted, but I still see MP3 as the way forward and would'nt be without my two laptops now. Where once were Technics 1200's are now laptops complete with various playlists for the munchies, background etc. I can honestly say that using Windows XP pro as the OS and Mixmeister Pro I have never in two years had a crash (touch wood) However as discussed in another thread these are ONLY used for Gigging. Any downloading is done and cleaned on the desktop prior to transfer to laptop. The smiles on faces when you can do Auntie Flo's kneesup and play exactly what 'she' remembers as a girl can't be beaten. Conversley with the right websites as you know you can be playing tracks 2 months prior to release. My CD's are now there as a mere crutch and invariably stay in their box, apart from my Mastermixes and DMC mixes which I still subscribe to. Oh and before anyone asks I did the same as several others here and got made redundant in 83. I gave my self 6 months to make it or break it and have'nt worked at a normal job in the day since, working 5 nights a week residency's and leaving Fri and Sat as available to the Wedding Birthday set, the social life is crap but I would'nt swap it for the earth! http://www.chrispointon.f2s.com/Forum/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[mikeee 0]

I am still weary, although I know its the way to go. As the law stands at the moment, if you are caught the fine is a £1,000 per track and they take away all your kit, CDs and any equipment you have at home. My next major task, probably next year, is to lobby MP's, and the BPI for a special license to allow the copying and use of, for disco work.

[ChrisPointon 0]

QUOTE

My next major task, probably next year, is to lobby MP's, and the BPI for a special license to allow the copying and use of, for disco work.

 

Good luck Mike, but ultimately the copyright of material and any action directly, or indirectly taken against an individual or group comes under international jurisdiction of the R.I.A.A based in the U.S, and isn't a matter which can be approved or disproved by any independant country

 

You may remember the first action taken against napster, which resulted in it's downfall and closure, and more recently the closure of Audiogalaxy and the ongoing action against kazaa and other P2P applications, all of these actions have been taken by the R.I.A.A and not as a result of the country in which the servers of these utilities reside.

 

Basically, any approval for this type of application would need to be taken up with, and approved by the R.I.A.A, and if I'm honest I really don't see you getting anywhere with that.

 

To give an example, I believe that Kazaa moved all of its main servers and offices to a remote, privately owned island off the coast of Australia (Correct me if I'm wrong). Being privately owned and funded, they have done this to be beyond U.S Jurisdiction and subsequently any resulting action by the R.I.A.A - even so it appears that they are currently losing the legal battle and may soon also close - however this is one of the reasons why they have remained operational for so long http://www.chrispointon.f2s.com/Forum/html/emoticons/smile.gif

 

Interestingly, for those who actively use mp3's for their set. I have been forwarded a copy of a article in a trade publication. It's almost 18 months old so I don't know if it is still valid, but it may be useful information should the need arise.

 

It deals, with what to do in the event that your venue gets a "visit". Usually any investigation is instigated and carried out by the local trading standard office. In order to take action against you for using or possessing MP3's or illegal copyrighted material they need to obtain proof - i.e cease and view your cd's or the offending material. Interestingly - according to this article, in order to do this they:-

 

(1) If its a private function, have the permission of the venue owner or the hirer to enter

 

OR:-

 

(2) Have a warrant and be accompanied by the police to gain access without permission of the above mentioned

 

Even so once inside, any property of yours cannot be viewed or ceased without your permission, or the production of a signed and valid warrant.

 

The information then goes on to describe how T.S operate on a fear principle, mainly relying on the fact that you will not know your rights and hand over your collection without any warrant or fuss.

 

Interestingly, according to the article, in order for T.S to get a warrant raised and signed by a local magistrate they need to have at least some evidence or "reasonable grounds" of suspicion. In the case of people trading on market stalls / computer fairs etc, this usually means obtaining photographs and undercover T.S officials actually buying the copyright material from the trader.

 

Given this fact, I am wondering how they are going to prove a case against a working D.J?, methinks at the moment they are concentrating on the people doing this directly "For Profit" - i.e selling on via market stalls or internet forums (one of the reasons why I won't allow this sort of trading on here).

 

If you weigh up these facts, then to a D.J the risk is low, but it is stll a risk nevertheless and it comes down to the individual whether you actively use Mp3's or not.

 

Disclaimer:-

 

I'm not trained in legal matters and therefore take no responsibilty for the informaton given above, which was taken from a trade only publication Dated Jan 2002 and posted in good faith.

[The Spindoctor 0]

I concur with everything you said Chris, I used to work for the local authority in an 'enforcement' position and had much contact and knowledge of the activities of trading standards. In fact it was the local authority who made me redundant back in 83.............and............... who still use me for all council functions etc complete with Mp3's and who paid me for my services to provide music on the picket lines in the one day actions recently!! Now if that is'nt going to be an interesting court case should it ever befall me then I don't know what is!!!! http://www.chrispointon.f2s.com/Forum/html/emoticons/wacko.gif

[scotty 0]

Chris that sounds nice any info you could pm me or a web site you could point me to ?

 

I carry my twin numark cdn34 and my pc i was thinking about getting a laptop but I may wait now as the technology seems to be moving quite fast (any lead times on this btw ?) I would ideally like an integrated system that plays mp3s from a very big HDD that I can manipulate i.e. speed up and slow down via a jog wheel and a twin cd unit all in one, now I would be prepared to out mega money for this !

 

BTW what sound cards are you ppl using in your pc's laptops ?

 

[mikeee 0]

I said about lobbying MP's, As the Industry are noe sells machines that play MP3, perhaps the industry will back the lobbying. A DJ stands up and shouts, nobody listens, corporate bodies shout some one will listen.

[Eskie 0]

QUOTE

BTW what sound cards are you ppl using in your pc's laptops ?

 

I used to use a Creative Soundblaster, but upgraded to a Midiman Delta 44 last year... jeez, it's like comparing a Robin reliant to a Ferrari http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/tongue.gif

The sound quality is sooooo much better with the Delta. It's amazing what a difference a decent soundcard can make.

You can check out the specs here Midiman Delta 44

[cavalierroadshow 0]

chris mcgregore audio have a single play mp3 player pre loaded

with approx 1500 tracks and with hard drive space left to load more http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/thumbup.gif

[Dukesy 0]

Chris, I also agree with what you posted.

 

But like a jigsaw puzzel, the pieces are slowly, very slowly, fitting together.

 

If it falls upon DJ's to obtain license for Publishers copyright and Performance copyright , ie, DJ's have to get a form of licence (which, currently venues obtain) then, I feel the process of imposing fines on 'illegallly' recorded played material at gigs may be 'enforceable' in Public venues than private hired venues.

However, on same subject, the only major problem I can see is enforcement / inspection of a DJs music library as even bouncers don't even have the right for search, so how would an enforcement bod get away with it at a gig?

 

And Mikee, its all very well standing up and making demands, but it's better to sometimes listen to others who will be affected as a result of you pushing for your 'licence'! tongue out icon