BBC Rouge Traders....

[DJ Marky Marc 0]

With all this talk on forums about DJs letting people down and there being no conrol over cowboys who play music of hard drives they got on ebay how about a group like SEDA and the NADJ call a program like BBC rouge Traders and get them to make a program or do a sting on these cowboys.

 

a little public shame could scare a few into doing things right for a change or at least make more of the public aware of what to look out for...

[jakemuk 0]

how would that work tho ?

 

how would they know that all tunes arent from napster and they are legal etc ?

[ChrisPointon 0]

I can just see the Bride and Groom appreciating Matt Alright and his leather clad friend along with 15 bouncers and twenty crew gatecrashing their Wedding Reception.

 

http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/071.gif

 

Or maybe Ethel and Roger could invite the Djs around to do a tea dance at the Rogue Traders house http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/tongue.gif

 

Besides, a DJ which is crap to one person may be Gods gift to another, it's all a matter of opinion and taste, where as bad workmanship is proof in itself and speaks volumes. If your roof leaks because the roofer has left a bloody great hole in it on camera says that it doesn't rely on opinion to see that the job has not been done properly, if one person complains just because the DJ didn't play continuous megadeath tracks for the entire evening is not justification of a right to a trial by television - thats just one persons view, the other 199 guests enjoyed themselves but didn't bother to write in!.

 

Nice thought in theory, but I reckon the BBC has bigger fish to fry especially as most of the dangers they highlight such as poor gas fitting or electrical work carry the risk of fatailities and so make great television!. I doubt many Brides will hurl themselves in front of the Wedding Car or hack their own head off with the Cake Knife just because the DJ is crap.

 

Maybe Dj's should stop wasting so much time and effort assuming that these cowboys are having a negative effect on them because it solves nothing!, instead its far easier to concentrate on ways of marketing and polishing your initial approach and of making sure that the client DOES NOT FEEL THE NEED to phone another DJ because they will have found everything that they were looking for in the answers which you gave them and will now have booked 'you' before putting the phone down!.

[Corabar Steve 0]

QUOTE (jakemuk @ Sep 18 2006, 08:17 PM)

how would that work tho ? how would they know that all tunes arent from napster and they are legal etc ?

Napster is legal http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Paul Smith 0]

Rogue Traders and regulation doesn't get rid of cowboys http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/cowboy.gif - they just pop back up under different business names. The few that do reform are replaced by the next generation. In our market they exist because some people always want the cheapest they can get regardless of legality or quality.

 

I do believe though that one area that could / should be tightened up is PLI which could easily be accomplished by venues (with persuasion from their own insurance companies) - No PLI = No Performance.

[djgb 0]

Funny that, I was just thinking the same thing- what if ?

But how could it be done cause a lot or nearly those featured on the program tend to start the jobs, take some money and then do a runner http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/363.gif . Imagine setting up, taking the final amount agreed for the gig starting to play a few songs then pack up saying that you need to fetch some new cds or leads etc. Dont think you'd make it pretty far out the door in one piece! http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/fright.gif

 

Still like you say it could work in theory on those so called djs that take bookings and some cash then dont turn up.

 

Humm I could see something coming from the idea but would Joe Public really be that interested and where could you name and shame these "HERO's on horse back" http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/cowboy.gif

[ChrisPointon 0]

I agree with Paul. Regulation does not solve any problems, it just drives the problem itself deeper underground and makes it even more difficult for the client to spot.

 

Take other forms of regulation.

 

Corgi registration and The new Building Regulations should make it nigh on impossible for cowboys to operate in this trade. However Rogue Traders still has plenty of new material.

 

Part 'P' of the Electrical Regulations now makes a large amount of DIY electrical work in the home illegal, but B&Q are still selling plenty of these accessories.

 

The Hackney Carriage licence should make it illegal for unlicensed taxi drivers to operate anywhere. Well, visit any airport in peak season or a Saturday Night in a city centre and i'm sure you'll find plenty of evidence that regulation and licensing simply does not work.

 

In fact all the regulation of any industry seems to do, is to make it more expensive for the legitimate businesses to operate, since it always seems to come with a fee. Nobody would mind paying if it rid the industry of the problem, but it never does. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[RobbieD 0]

Getting back to Marky's original post, I think that if a program like Rouge Traders were to get involved, it would be to go after the DJ's who take bookings, then call up the client a week or two before to let the client down, due to holiday/taking a better paid booking/can't be arsed.

 

However builders, plumbers and the like have a bad name, and programs like this do nothing to improve the image of their industry as a whole. (It wouldn't be so bad if the program also showed some professionals who have done a good job, to redress the balance.)

 

A large proportion of the public might also view DJ's as unprofessional, but do we really want a one sided TV program to reinforce that point of view?

[UKHero 0]

QUOTE (DJ Marky Marc @ Sep 18 2006, 08:12 PM)

cowboys who play music of hard drives they got on ebay

I wonder if you have a problem with cowboy DJs or DJs who play music from Hard Drive as I do....

[neilzinho 0]

rouge traders...are these traders who wear lipstick?

[High Fidelity 0]

QUOTE (RobbieD @ Sep 19 2006, 08:15 AM)

However builders, plumbers and the like have a bad name, and programs like this do nothing to improve the image of their industry as a whole. (It wouldn't be so bad if the program also showed some professionals who have done a good job, to redress the balance.)

This is why it would do no good.

 

Showing both the good and the bad doesn't make for interesting television. So if they did one on bad DJ's, it would just further the publics already poor view of our industry.

[Gary 0]

QUOTE (UKHero @ Sep 19 2006, 11:01 AM)

QUOTE (DJ Marky Marc @ Sep 18 2006, 08:12 PM) cowboys who play music of hard drives they got on ebay I wonder if you have a problem with cowboy DJs or DJs who play music from Hard Drive as I do.... I've always maintained that there are two types of user of this type of equipment.     A real DJ - who happens to use a laptop/harddrive. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/thumbup.gif   and...   A laptop DJ. The type who (as a total 100% cliche- nobodies this bad, surely) inherited their whole music collection on the same day that they bought the harddrive off of Ebay, doesnt know the difference between one "Power of love" and the other 2 or 3...and then proceeds to trawl the internet, snatching playlists verbatim from threads about "What are your whole night long playlists for a wedding/21st birthday etc?" on forums for DJs. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/thumbdown.gif

[UKHero 0]

QUOTE (Gary @ Sep 19 2006, 10:38 AM)

QUOTE (UKHero @ Sep 19 2006, 11:01 AM) QUOTE (DJ Marky Marc @ Sep 18 2006, 08:12 PM) cowboys who play music of hard drives they got on ebay I wonder if you have a problem with cowboy DJs or DJs who play music from Hard Drive as I do.... I've always maintained that there are two types of user of this type of equipment.     A real DJ - who happens to use a laptop/harddrive. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/thumbup.gif   and...   A laptop DJ. The type who (as a total 100% cliche- nobodies this bad, surely) inherited their whole music collection on the same day that they bought the harddrive off of Ebay, doesnt know the difference between one "Power of love" and the other 2 or 3...and then proceeds to trawl the internet, snatching playlists verbatim from threads about "What are your whole night long playlists for a wedding/21st birthday etc?" on forums for DJs. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/thumbdown.gif I agree compleatly with your comments.. But   what a bout the CD DJ who has purchased a twin CD player from the local fence and has DLd and burned his CD's   It just seems to me that there are a few guys on here who think if you use a PC or laptop then your a cowboy... This needs to stop as it is unfair to us guys who have embraced this new technology legally...   Nik

[DJ Marky Marc 0]

QUOTE

It just seems to me that there are a few guys on here who think if you use a PC or laptop then your a cowboy

 

No not on here.. 99% of people hear understand whats going on and welcome new technoligy with open arms......

 

however ask the same question from the general public and I bet a Mcdonalds meal that most of the public think laptop DJs are not real DJs, why? becuase they tell me so when they see that im using CDs and vinyl...

[jakemuk 0]

I personaly use a mix of PC and CD's,

 

the reaosn i use a pc is because its so much quicker to get requests qued up ETC.

 

Someonoe comes up have you got oasis masterplan ,,, 2 secs later yeah mate put it on next,

 

before hes back in his seat its playing.

 

If that was cd's would be a while before he heard it.

 

Yeah ok you could do same with Catraxx ETC, I use that to to find my tracks on cds but its alot easier with PCDJ,

 

I actualy carry my PCDJ receipt on me as ive been accused of using a cracked version by a dj once ! so know i keep all paperwork and emails on me to show people who doubt my legit !

[UKHero 0]

QUOTE (DJ Marky Marc @ Sep 19 2006, 11:05 AM)

QUOTE It just seems to me that there are a few guys on here who think if you use a PC or laptop then your a cowboy   No not on here.. 99% of people hear understand whats going on and welcome new technoligy with open arms......   however ask the same question from the general public and I bet a Mcdonalds meal that most of the public think laptop DJs are not real DJs, why? becuase they tell me so when they see that im using CDs and vinyl... Then its up to us to put them right its the music industry and the media that has caused this... and if they think laptop DJs are not real DJs then all the guys on the radio nowa days are not real also...   I thought this site was to help encourage and inform but when it comes to Laptops for some reason people seem to have a downer... Even people on here that build systems and then sell them seem to slag them off on this site I just dont get it....     Nik

[UKHero 0]

QUOTE (jakemuk @ Sep 19 2006, 11:46 AM)

I actualy carry my PCDJ receipt on me as ive been accused of using a cracked version by a dj once ! so know i keep all paperwork and emails on me to show people who doubt my legit !

And isnt it a shame you feel you have to do that... I bet the guy who accused you was using CDRs etc...

 

Do CD DJs carry proof round that there CDs are legit...

 

 

 

Nik

 

[jakemuk 0]

QUOTE (UKHero @ Sep 19 2006, 12:19 PM)

QUOTE (jakemuk @ Sep 19 2006, 11:46 AM) I actualy carry my PCDJ receipt on me as ive been accused of using a cracked version by a dj once ! so know i keep all paperwork and emails on me to show people who doubt my legit ! And isnt it a shame you feel you have to do that... I bet the guy who accused you was using CDRs etc...   Do CD DJs carry proof round that there CDs are legit...       Nik Unfortuantely its a problem you get people dont think ur legit because ur not charging as much as they do,   I can go out and do a gig for 120 and make a profit, Where as others would charge 300 they seem to think were not legit

[ChrisPointon 0]

Rumour has it that a bunch of mechanics have got together, formed a self elected witchfinding party and declared that if their peers don't own at least one Makita tool chest then they must be a cowboy http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/huh.gif

[partychris 0]

QUOTE (UKHero @ Sep 19 2006, 01:17 PM)

QUOTE (DJ Marky Marc @ Sep 19 2006, 11:05 AM) QUOTE It just seems to me that there are a few guys on here who think if you use a PC or laptop then your a cowboy   No not on here.. 99% of people hear understand whats going on and welcome new technoligy with open arms......   however ask the same question from the general public and I bet a Mcdonalds meal that most of the public think laptop DJs are not real DJs, why? becuase they tell me so when they see that im using CDs and vinyl... Then its up to us to put them right its the music industry and the media that has caused this... and if they think laptop DJs are not real DJs then all the guys on the radio nowa days are not real also...   I thought this site was to help encourage and inform but when it comes to Laptops for some reason people seem to have a downer... Even people on here that build systems and then sell them seem to slag them off on this site I just dont get it....     Nik yea but you cant see the guys on the radio !! http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/533.gif

[Dave80s 0]

Rouge is more of a blusher than a lipstick isn't it? :-)

 

I'm sure there are better reasons for using a PC than being able to do a quick request. I find if you put a request on too quick you get pestered by them for the rest of the night - the punter thinks they 'control' you.

 

I'm all for laptop Djing, I think it is a good idea.

 

 

[spinner 0]

QUOTE (Dave80s @ Sep 19 2006, 03:25 PM)

Rouge is more of a blusher than a lipstick isn't it? :-)

It is. At first I thought this thread was to do with cosmetics.

[ian . 0]

I don't think a programme like 'Rogue Traders' would do us any favours.

Maybe a fly on the wall type programme which shows a pro mobile dj at work.

One that shows the work, time and effort that goes into preparing for a wedding for example....

The pitfalls of not having Pli or PAT.... (a burning venue for example)

The list goes on....

 

What we would then need is for the same programme to follow a £50 a night and a pint DJ.

We could see him setting up his home Pioneer stereo system to a mixer, and watch as he downloads Mp3's off Morpheus.....

[spinner 0]

QUOTE (UKHero @ Sep 19 2006, 12:17 PM)

... and if they think laptop DJs are not real DJs then all the guys on the radio nowadays are not real also...

Going off topic slightly, but in a related subject, that reminds me of an post, somewhere, I read by a BBC engineer/technician at the time when certain record companies were experimenting with encoding on CDs to prevent copying.

 

This concerned a Michael Jackson single which was current and the BBC man remarked that, usually, all CDs received were copied, digitally, to another format ( either hard drive or minidisc, can't remember which ) for convenience, but the encoding had prevented it and he'd had to find a way round it ( possibly by making an analogue copy ).

 

Bearing in mind the recent revelation that some of their presenters were not aware of the licensing situation, what licence would the BBC have had for copying to another format?

[ChrisPointon 0]

QUOTE

can go out and do a gig for 120 and make a profit, Where as others would charge 300 they seem to think were not legit

 

That all depends on your lifestyle and financial committments. If you had a mortgage, a wife and 3 kids then you would find it impossible!. But if you were 16 and still at home or a student then it would probably be far more money than you've ever earned before and you'd consider yourself 'well off'. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/smile.gif

 

Its all about economies of scale rather than how good a DJ you are, yes you can charge £120 and still be a good dj, you can charge £300 and still let people down, price is no guarantee of reliability. As a point of fact I spend close to £1 million a year with a supplier at work, but I still get let down on deliveries and empty promises from time to time http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/smile.gif .

 

Part of Rogue Traders concentrates on prices, so given that one plumber may charge £200 for a Job, and another charged £400, Matt would probably brand the higher charging Plumber to be ripping people off, what if they aimed the same principles to djs?.

 

DJ'ing is as diverse as the audience that we entertain, there is no right and wrong ways of doing things, unless you want to start a BS approval and certification scheme!.

 

Most of the things being mentioned here, relate to the running of any business and are common sense. These include turning up on time, having excellent customer services and doing the job to the complete satisfaction of the client. Hmm, I can name at least several large companies who would fail on all three - can't you?.

 

Unfortunately the media debate on Vinyl / CD / Digital reminds me of the Betamax vs VHS or Windows vs Mac debates in that you'll never get full agreement from all sides. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/smile.gif