Licenses...

[DJmoonie 0]

I'm not entirely sure what licenses I need to operate as a mobile DJ. Venues I may include hotels/function rooms/pubs/clubs, or private house parties. I've seen talk of PRS/PPL and Digital DJ licenses but no definitive and clear answer.

 

Can someone please shed some light on this for me, including links to websites where I can obtain these licenses.

 

Your help, is as ever, much appreciated.

[spinner 0]

What playout medium ( or media ) will you be using?

[DJmoonie 0]

Playout will be via mp3's bought from a reputable download service, but which are burnt to audio CD first and used on cdj's. I may also in the future play the mp3's directly from the laptop. I don't intend to ever go down the vinyl route.

[spinner 0]

Legal downloads, burnt to CD have the same ( consumer ) status as shop bought CDs.

 

If you are doing a private party in a private house - no licence required

 

If you are doing a hotel-based private function - the hotel should have the licence

 

If you are doing a hotel-based public function ( eg NYE or Christmas ) - Ditto

 

If you are doing a private function in ( say ) a village hall - the hall should have the licence.

 

If you are using a hard drive based system and you have downloaded mp3 files to that hard drive without changing the format, you need no licence. The only licencing requirements that apply are as above.

[DJmoonie 0]

So what about cd's burnt from mp3 downloads ? What licenses are required ?

[ChrisPointon 0]

QUOTE (DJmoonie @ Oct 20 2006, 08:27 PM)

So what about cd's burnt from mp3 downloads ? What licenses are required ?

QUOTE

Legal downloads, burnt to CD have the same ( consumer ) status as shop bought CDs.

 

There is your answer, no license required as they are classed in the same manner as buying the CD Single! http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/smile.gif

 

The only time that you will need a license, is

 

Holding a public event (where you are the promoter) or appearing at a carnival or other outside event where the promoter hasn't obtained a PPL License

 

Appearing at a pub / club which doesn't already hold a PPL License.

 

In both of the above you will need to obtain a one off license from the PPL for the event

 

If you convert CD / Vinyl to MP3 format for use in a pub or a club, you will need to obtain a digital DJ license and an SG-6 from the MCPS, regardless of whether it has a PPl License.

 

If you convert CD / Vinyl to MP3 format for use at a private function then you'll need an SG-6 from the MCPS, but will not be able to obtain any license from the PPL, because one doesn't yet exist.

 

[mikeee 0]

Which download service??

 

I don't use them so I can only quote what I have been told, iTunes user agreement stiplulates that any down load is for personnel use only, and can not be used for any other purpose. Assuming, your service does allow use other than personnel, each track will have it's own license, read that to make sure you can 1) Play it to the public, 2) copy it to another format.

 

If it states anywhere, Not for Public Performance, or You can copy to iPod / CD or whatever for personel use, Then it's safe to say you can't use the track in public.

 

As for licenses, the original question, to copy a song from one format to another, or duplicate the track (ie CD to CD) then we are back to the PPL Digital License and the MCPS SG6. Sorry

 

Chris, just seen your post. Please remember we are being paid to give a public performance. The BPI, issued a statement the other month that quite clearly states that a member of the public "copying" for personel use will not be persued, but a person using copied music as part of their business (DJ), will be dealt with to the full extent of the law (or words to that effect)

Edited October 20, 2006 by mikeee

[DJmoonie 0]

And finally, if I go to a venue without any licenses, what license would I need, and in that situation, who infact is liable ?

 

P.S. So I don't even need a license to play my music in public, like a shop needs ?

 

P.P.S Downloads are mostly from juno.co.uk and beatport.com

Edited October 20, 2006 by DJmoonie

[mikeee 0]

A venue should have a PRS license.

 

If the event is not a "family" party, when there is the PPL performance license, not to be confused with the digital license.

 

Confused, you will be by the end.

[ChrisPointon 0]

QUOTE

If it states anywhere, Not for Public Performance

 

Then we are okay because as I said in the thread earlier - Weddings and Family Functions are NOT Public Performances.

 

Doing Pubs and Clubs with these terms applied may put you on a sticky wicket though.

[DJmoonie 0]

I'm looking to do alot of 'club' nights, set in function rooms and halls. So its not going to be classed as a 'family' event. Given this, and assuming that my download service gives me the right licenses for the music, and the venue itself has no licenses, what would I need ?

 

No wonder I got confused earlier.... Why is it so complex ?

[ChrisPointon 0]

QUOTE

and the venue itself has no licenses, what would I need ?

 

A PPL License:-

 

Click me

 

Cost £124.17 + VAT

 

[spinner 0]

QUOTE (DJmoonie @ Oct 20 2006, 09:41 PM)

and the venue itself has no licenses, what would I need ?

IMO you'd need to look elsewhere for work!!

[DJmoonie 0]

oooh.. look what I just found:-

 

http://www.djlicence.org.uk/pdffiles/Licen...20Royalties.pdf

[digitaldistortion 0]

QUOTE (DJmoonie @ Oct 21 2006, 02:43 PM)

oooh.. look what I just found:- http://www.djlicence.org.uk/pdffiles/Licen...20Royalties.pdf

I'm going to trust this doc (cos it plainly suits me), but I'm going to carry a copy of it with the PLI and PAT docs (just for safety, you understand).

 

Nice one, I've been looking for something concrete for a while (and this is as close as it comes, so far!)

 

http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/patriot.gif

 

 

 

[High Fidelity 0]

Are we not all breaking the law everytime we do a public gig, even with CD's.

 

I've just looked at a dozen CD's and they all say "Not for public performance or broadcasting" on them. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/533.gif

 

The only public gigs I do tend to be the Christmas Dinner dances in hotels. So what's the difference between playing from CD or laptop. The way I understand it, I'm breaking the law either way. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/wallbash.gif

[Andy Westcott 0]

Is not the word ' unauthorised' on there somewhere?

 

That's the difference - if the venue has the appropriate license, you (or anyone else) have authorisation to play that track in that venue.

[DJmoonie 0]

This thread has taught me one thing at least, that the whole area of licensing public performances is a complete mine field!

 

I find it amazing that according to licensing provisions, if I download a track and play it directly from the laptop, it can potentially invoke different licensing conditions than if I were to play exactly the same track, but burnt to CD first.

 

And lets look at the issue of downloaded music more generally. Different sites may provide different licensing agreements with its users. For instance, beatport specifically says that using tracks to dj is ok, but juno says only for personal, non commercial use. So do I have to keep track of what I downloaded from where ? What utter nonsense.

 

Oh, and don't even start me on PPL... How many different variations of licenses there are...

 

Arrgghghhh

[PEDJ 0]

Not everything is as clear as glass because TWO licences are required to be 100% legal. To date there is only ONE digital licence to buy thus the 200 or so individuals who purchased the PPL licence since its introduction are not quite totally legal in the eyes of the law because they only have ONE licence. I say again, TWO licence\'s are required.

 

The other digital licence (from MCPS) has not been produced. It doesn\'t mean that their version of a digital licence wont ever be produced but there are discussions behind the scenes to re-package the proposal.

The MCPS proposal is no good as a direct copy of the PPL licence because the PPL licence is rather restrictive and found to be unworkable as well as being an ANNUAL sum to fork out.

The MCPS SG-6 was not intended to be used by individuals as it allows the user to transfer music legally from one format to another. Although the SG-6 is the best cost effective way for the individual to transfer music long term, MCPS don’t like it hence their proposal for a version of the digital licence.

 

As stated, the legal UK download sites provide a download licence when you purchase the track. E.G. How many times you can transfer / burn to CD.

Purchasing a download track is like purchasing a CD off the shelf - no different whatsoever.

Example: if you download music from Tesco and store the track as an mp3 or burn it to disc up to the allowed amount of times then you do not require (either) licence.....NOTE keep all history of downloads, receipts, etc. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/smile.gif

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However let us look at it another way.

Instead of downloading all your music you decide to rip your music from your original purchased music collection.

That is viewed as a very big problem by the Licence issuer because you are effectively by-passing a potential sale.

In other words, they want to sell downloads because they get a cut and control of the distribution of money generated by the sales of downloads.

They get nothing when an individual rips their music from CD or vinyl to digital file format because they can not enforce their argument against the public, period.

So along comes a young lawyer within the PPL and dreams up the digital DJ licence. The rest is history.

 

I\'ll explain by another example further if it helps explain what I have said above.

A DJ may have in excess of over 50,000 tracks from many years of purchasing CD singles and albums which is going to be ripped to for example a new Denon hard drive dedicated system.

That individual has lost the PPL potentially a big cut (say £39,500 currently based on £0.79 per track) even though the DJ owns the original sound recordings (CDs) and probably paid far in excess for the original tracks (broadly based from £1.99 per track to £11.99 per album.. do the maths!)

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Most venues have an entertainment licence where they pay an annual fee for the privilege of music on premises.

So when the Jukebox is played or when the local disco or even karaoke performs at the venue, the venue is usually covered with the correct licence to allow the broadcast (authorise) music to be played.

 

If the venue performed at has no entertainment licence then the onus should be on the organiser to provide.

If you have been asked to provide a licence for the date in question then decide if it is going to be cost effective to what you are being paid. Note that your details will be held on file by the licence issuer!

 

 

Because the PPL introduced the digital Licence they stated one way or another in the licence Terms and Conditions that if the DJ was performing publicly (EG in a PUB) then their licence would be required especially if the DJ has ripped music from personal music CD or Vinyl collections, but no licence would be required for Private functions, EG Weddings.

This caused and still does cause confusion which is why the PPL have not suspended the digital licence a year later. If they cancel the digital licence then they would have to refund big time. I guess they are playing the waiting game to see what MCPS decide.

 

Again, if the DJ has paid for and downloaded the music from a UK legal source then no licence is required as long as the terms and conditions of the downloaded track are stuck with (EG not for thousands of copies of the track to be recorded to CDR when the rules only allow a burn of only up to three times!!!)

 

Yes, the rules of the licence is not clear and selling tactics of at least one agent (on behalf of PPL) has been called into question.

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Nobody should encourage an individual to break the law as it is irresponsible to do so.

That said only around 200 individuals in the whole of the UK purchased the 2005 licence which speaks volumes in its self!

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