What Speakers To Buy

[ellaskins 0]

Ok, so many people are asking me, "what speakers should i buy?"

For the answer there are quite a few questions you need to ask youself first.

1,How big is my disco/mobile going to get?( will i always be doing a pub/ wedding Doo, for 50 people or will i do a room with 1,000 students in the future?)

2, will I!, be able to move them into any venue, if i buy big cabs?.

3, should i spend that little extra now on a better set than buy the set for £x and have them go pop on a Sat night?

The list does go on, but i have found that Big speaker boxes can be turned DOWN!, but small boxes can not be turned up!!

A good idea is invest in a cheep set of 12"or 15" and horn for the smaller doo, and then get either a good set of twin 15" with a good cd horn or a set of bass cabs and smaller 12" with a cd horn, so you would end up with 4 speakers.

 

 

Fact!!!!! never buy an amp that is the same power of your speaker cabs. Always buy an amp with greater power eg speakers 350w side at 4 ohms you ould need an amp 500 per side and above.

 

WHY ???

 

All amps when run at full power will through out what is known as a square signal if the mixer is in the red, this is the thing that will knacker your coill in the speaker cone. So think LOGICALY if your speaker is 350w and you push into it 350w at full power it may not last! On the other hand if your amp is 500 a side and the speaker is 350 you may find you will be crancking up to 400w+ and you will still have a sweet sound !!

 

 

all the best Johnahan

[TonyB 0]

Fact!!!!! never buy an amp that is the same power of your speaker cabs. Always buy an amp with greater power eg speakers 350w side at 4 ohms you ould need an amp 500 per side and above.

 

WHY ???

 

All amps when run at full power will through out what is known as a square signal if the mixer is in the red, this is the thing that will knacker your coill in the speaker cone. So think LOGICALY if your speaker is 350w and you push into it 350w at full power it may not last! On the other hand if your amp is 500 a side and the speaker is 350 you may find you will be crancking up to 400w+ and you will still have a sweet sound !!

all the best Johnahan

 

No No No! We have had this sketch before! Because recorded music is so compressed, the amp output should not be more than the handling capacity of the speakers.

 

The wave from recorded media is square to start with. If you start trying to push more power to the speakers than they can handle they will blow.

[Gary 0]

No No No! We have had this sketch before!

 

 

Agreed....those little squiggly number things on the specifications label on the rear of the speakers are there for a reason. If a speaker says it'll handle a particular maximum wattage, the only person hearing a sweet sound from significantly more power being blasted into the poor cab, is the nearest speaker re-coning place...the sweet sound of their cash register.

 

There was a story going around, however, about JBL DELIBERATELY labelling up (cant remember the exact specs) a 500watt driver as a 400 watt driver, purely so that reputation would start going around saying how wonderful the JBL 400watt drivers coped with 500watts of power.

 

If a speaker says its 500watts, dont give it more than 500watts...but use an amp thats bigger than 500watts to give the the speaker its power. Getting 500watts out of a 500watt amp, is giving the amp a hard time and a stressed amp, could start sending nasties into your speakers.

 

[Andy Westcott 0]

A hot topic this!

 

So I'll preach what I always preach:

 

If you can afford the redundant capacity, go for speakers rated at double the amp's RMS output. That way, unless you are using hideously poor speakers, you will find it impossible to burn them out.

 

'Tis what I do - my bass drivers are rated at 600 watts AES each, but the amps feeding them are rated at 300 watts rms. This way, if I had a mind to do it, I could run the amps well into bass distortion and the speakers would handle it without a hiccup.

 

This misguided notion of being safe if you are using a higher rated amp - well, I don't know where it comes from but it's rubbish; It's probably because if you are using a weak amp, there may be a temptation amongst the inexperienced to crank it up into distortion. But even so, that won't be a problem if the speakers can handle the power then being developed.

 

Bear in mind that an amplifier rated at 200 watts at 0.001% distortion will output a heck of a lot more than that at, say, 20% distortion.

 

Speakers always higher rated than amp if you want them to last, and be safe from abuse.

 

The only reason for not doing this is if you are penny pinching and need to work the units to their limit to "get your money's worth", which is a dangerous practice.

You know it makes sense!

[DJ Marky Marc 0]

No No No! We have had this sketch before! Because recorded music is so compressed, the amp output should not be more than the handling capacity of the speakers.

 

The wave from recorded media is square to start with. If you start trying to push more power to the speakers than they can handle they will blow.

 

 

 

NO and very big NO....

 

If you get to the point where the amp has nothing left to give you get a square wave or in english DC voltage clipping...

 

your amp needs to be bigger than the RMS of the speakers....

 

500w RMS quality speaker will handle 1000w PEAK short term... your amp needs to be able to give as close to this peak as possible in and ideal world..

 

a good managed speaker system will have amps that are way bigger than the speaker output and a limmiter to prevent damage...

 

 

 

[DJ Ben 0]

Agree with Marc.

 

For example: Peavey PRO15's - 4ohms, 350w RMS (I think)

I'd match these with a 500wpch at 4 ohms amp.

 

Pro15's can handle 1kw peak output.

 

[UKHero 0]

NO and very big NO....

 

If you get to the point where the amp has nothing left to give you get a square wave or in english DC voltage clipping...

 

your amp needs to be bigger than the RMS of the speakers....

 

500w RMS quality speaker will handle 1000w PEAK short term... your amp needs to be able to give as close to this peak as possible in and ideal world..

 

a good managed speaker system will have amps that are way bigger than the speaker output and a limmiter to prevent damage...

 

I to agree with Mark except for the point "in and ideal world.." Cause as he stated in a previous post we dont live in an ideal world LOL

 

But everything he says is how I was told to do it by people much more experienced than a lot of us on here when it comes to speaker management.....

 

Nik

 

[Andy Westcott 0]

Quote:

"500w RMS quality speaker will handle 1000w PEAK short term... your amp needs to be able to give as close to this peak as possible"

 

Why??

A powerful amp will clip as readily as a weaker one, and if it does, your poor old speakers will be very short-lived indeed! A weaker amp with the same speakers, clipping to the same degree won't be as bad for your speakers.

 

Simple thermal issues here.

 

To take this argument to an extreme then, if you had a 100 watt speaker, and fed it with a stupidly distorted signal from a 10 watt amplifier, would the speaker burn out? No! It would barely know anything was going on.

 

If you value your speakers, as I do, you are stepping on dodgy ground using an amp rated higher than the speakers, especially if you tend to run it near full output.

 

If you need louder sound, buy bigger speakers too.

This may not be absolutely necessary, but it is a darned good idea if you don't want premature failures. Burnt out voice coils are the simple result of feeding too much power into them - no other reason, and having a higher rated amp simply makes this more likely.

[TonyB 0]

NO and very big NO....

 

If you get to the point where the amp has nothing left to give you get a square wave or in english DC voltage clipping...

 

your amp needs to be bigger than the RMS of the speakers....

 

500w RMS quality speaker will handle 1000w PEAK short term... your amp needs to be able to give as close to this peak as possible in and ideal world..

 

a good managed speaker system will have amps that are way bigger than the speaker output and a limmiter to prevent damage...

 

Have a read of this thread http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=15149&hl=

 

If you find that you are getting to the point where the amp is maxed out, then you need a bigger amp and speakers that can handle the extra power of the bigger amp.

 

You can get away with having higher powered amp than speakers for live music but for recorded music it is not recommended. I spent a day trawling through the net to seek the opinions of "more experienced people".

 

Bottom line for mobile disco's using recorded music is match amplifier output to speaker handling capacity. If you want to run a 500 watt amp then you should have speakers with a handling capacity of at least 500watts rms.

 

Unless you have the right equipment to set up a limiter to measure the power output, a limiter will not protect the speakers from an overpowered amp. Most people set them up to prevent clipping. You have no way of knowing what power the amp is putting out to the speakers so a limiter is not the answer to protect speakers from an overpowered amp. But a limiter will protect speakers from an underpowered amp by preventing clipping.

 

 

[DJ Marky Marc 0]

to agree with Mark except for the point "in and ideal world.." Cause as he stated in a previous post we dont live in an ideal world LOL

 

what i mean by this is use your common sence dont hammer your sound system to its max...

 

if you have to get anywhere near the max of your speakers or amp power to do a gig then you need a bigger sound system...

 

there is no magic trick to it.. Bigger speakers are needed...

 

 

[Andy Westcott 0]

Can I take the opportunity of extolling the virtues of the good old VU meter, sadly no longer usually found on amplifiers?

 

I still use these (LED) meters on my amps, and although I look at them only briefly every now and then, I would feel a bit lost without them as you can see exactly how hard the system is running - certainly better than a simple clip LED. Also useful for making sure the volume hasn't crept up during the evening, which it has a tendency to do, and although the mixer output could do the same job, not much use on bi-amped setups

 

BRING BACK VU METERS ON AMPLIFIERS!!

[TonyB 0]

 

BRING BACK VU METERS ON AMPLIFIERS!!

 

My BKE amps http://www.bkelec.com/Pro/Amplifiers/Mxf900.htm still have them smile icon

[jeffwall 0]

Buy powered speakers..............all your problems solved!! haha

[Andy Westcott 0]

Tony - same make as mine, only I use 4 of the modules, and have mounted the 4 corresponding VU meters in a rack panel.

 

Lovely aren't they?!

 

I'll try to get a photo of the rack on the internet, so that I can wave it about on here!

[wizard 0]

As someone said............ a hot topic this.

 

Annoyingly even manufacturers dont seem to know as different manufacturers give different stories.

 

Personally I think its use a bit of stuff called common sense

[TonyB 0]

Buy powered speakers..............all your problems solved!! haha

 

Don't powered speakers have clipping lights or do they have limiters built in to the circuitry?

 

Something I hadn't thought about but would be handy if they do have built in limiters as it would be one less worry if they were loaned.

[jeffwall 0]

Powered speakers have amps built in, everything spot on by design!

 

So overpowering them wont occur from a wattage/amp ratio point of view, as mentioned above

 

Yes they have thermal cut outs and clipping limiters built in too.

so problems regarding amps, wattage, are they powerful enough, do they suit, are they matched to the speaker ............ all goes away!

[TonyB 0]

Tony - same make as mine, only I use 4 of the modules, and have mounted the 4 corresponding VU meters in a rack panel.

 

Lovely aren't they?!

 

I'll try to get a photo of the rack on the internet, so that I can wave it about on here!

 

Hmmmm, they have a nice tone smile icon but the amps are heavy probably due to the dual power supply.

[Andy Westcott 0]

Yes, my rack takes two of us to lift, and is a struggle even then.

 

Quote Jeff:

"So overpowering them wont occur from a wattage/amp ratio point of view"

 

I'd like to see if it was in fact possible to burn out the main driver by overdriving it - I would expect you could, as there are commercial limitations as to how powerful a driver they could install and still return a decent profit.

 

I would expect the driver rating has been chosen to survive under most normal conditions, and the few which don't represent acceptable warranty returns. After a few early manufacturing mistakes, a balance would be struck regarding driver rating. It's a balancing act between spending more on each unit or repairing the odd few.

 

I still fully support the over-engineering approach.

[DJ Ben 0]

Whatever the RMS of the speaker, it's the efficiency that counts. EV (no, I promise Im not paid by them!) have a very high efficiency, whereas I would imagine Prosound.. (scum of the earth) have a very low efficiency. You need to consider this when buying amps aswell.

[ellaskins 0]

Buy powered speakers..............all your problems solved!! haha

Good idea but like with any amp if the amp goes inside you'r buggerd!! so not only do you have to fix the amp you have to send the speaker off too!

[jeffwall 0]

Yeah fair point........However as mentioned in other similar posts on powered syuff, they have 2 amps built in, top and mid/low, so you have 4 amps per speaker system. Plus one for the sub too

 

so 5 amps in total adds up to a "less serious senario" when failure occurs....1 mackie and a sub will get you through...even 1 mackie without sub will give a half decent performance? (in emergencys)

 

2 speakers (passive) buggered if amp blows end of night! or get the spare amp out the car!

 

But conceed the point above about sending the whole speaker off with its built in amps, but thats only the same as sending a unpowered speaker off (so beit less weight!)

 

Pro's and cons again!