New To Lighting And Dmx

[2stepsteve 0]

Hi all,

 

I'm new to DMX and lighting. I'm looking to buy a DMX controller, couple of LED par cans, a strobe and a scanner.

 

http://images4.thomann.de/pics/prod/168962.jpg

STAIRVILLE DMX-MASTER I

 

This is the controller I was thinking about going for, is it recommended?

 

I have a couple of questions regarding using this controller with a DMX strobe. Will I be able to tap out a beat with the controller and the controller to then fire the strobe to the beat by itself once I have 'tapped'.. if you see what I mean?

 

How does the audio in work with this controller? Does it automatically change to the next scene once a given amount of beats are reached? Can this be controlled?

 

What is the max amount of steps this controller wil allow for each scene? I'm abit lost with the specs it gives.. as doesn't seem to say. Was looking at the manual for it and its abit of a mess!

 

Then to the scanner I was looking at this

 

http://images4.thomann.de/pics/prod/168873.jpg

STAIRVILLE SCANNER ELC 250W SC250H

http://www.thomann.de/gb/stairville_scanne...250w_sc250h.htm

 

Does anyone have one? What do you think of it? Is there something else that would give me better bang for buck? I am on abit of a tight budget and that is about the max I can go to for a scanner, anything cheaper that is just as good would be a bonus.

 

Many thanks for any advice

[jeffwall 0]

Only my opinion here, but dmx controllers are a waste of time (for me anyway)

 

They take too long to program, they differ from venue to venue, they are expensive and often very difficult to understand

 

Ive had 2 in my time and ended up running the lights on pre-"programmed mode" (stand-alone)

 

Dont get me wrong, i'm sure there are many who will dis-agree, but when time is tight, and a light show is good enough on stand-alone.....why bother with dmx?

 

My datamoons and falcons have little controllers with them to choose the colour for say.....a first dance or something. Thats all i rekon you need most of the time, if any controll?

Edited August 31, 2007 by jeffwall

[2stepsteve 0]

Only my opinion here, but dmx controllers are a waste of time (for me anyway)

 

They take too long to program, they differ from venue to venue, they are expensive and often very difficult to understand

 

Ive had 2 in my time and ended up running the lights on pre-"programmed mode" (stand-alone)

 

Dont get me wrong, i'm sure there are many who will dis-agree, but when time is tight, and a light show is good enough on stand-alone.....why bother with dmx?

 

My datamoons and falcons have little controllers with them to choose the colour for say.....a first dance or something. Thats all i rekon you need most of the time, if any controll?

 

Hi jeffwall, yeah I see what you mean about the hassle controllers might be, but id really like to get in there with the controls and get messy. I have the time and the patience ( I think ;) )

 

Could anyone recommend a decent roller or scanner for around 70-150quid don't mind ebay, just throw some models at me :). All that i'd like is for it to be dmx and halogen.

[norty303 0]

If you're buying scanners, get at least 4. Any less than that and they tend to not look as good as multibeam effects.

 

Any of the Eurolite or Stairville scanners/rollers will be your best option pricewise, although you might be better off with the 150w discharge versions if you work a lot. After 100 hours or so they've paid the difference and they have a much 'whiter' white.

 

Lots of lights have well programmed stand alone modes. If you want to go for DMX then you really want to be looking at a desk that has effects generation capability. In the low range that'll be either a PC based solution running Freestyler, Chamsys Magic Q or some other, or a second hand board like the Pulsar Masterpiece or Zero 88 Diablo.

 

I've yet to see a good show programmed on a cheapy step chase controller that wasn't bettered by a built in sequence.

[yorkiemark 0]

Hi jeffwall, yeah I see what you mean about the hassle controllers might be, but id really like to get in there with the controls and get messy. I have the time and the patience ( I think ;) )

 

Could anyone recommend a decent roller or scanner for around 70-150quid don't mind ebay, just throw some models at me :). All that I'd like is for it to be dmx and halogen.

 

Ive got 2 Acme Dyna twins (so its like 4 scanners) link them up with a DMX cable & let them do their thing they are Brilliant,I wouldn't bother with a DMX controller for these though to much messing about.

 

Also I have 2 Acme Magic Gobos that again you could link up & they give out a great light show but for a slow dance or 1st dance at a Wedding for example you could use the controller(C-8) what comes with the lights to set the mood but its a very basic controller but does the job.

[2stepsteve 0]

I see cheers for that all very helpful :)

 

I've had a look at some of the free DMX software, looks pretty good! I will go down the route of using a USB to DMX interface card at some point. I use my computer for mixing so would work out well, also have a spare laptop that could be put to use. Just a matter of deciding on what interface to get, shame that they aren't all compatible with the software thats out there.

[superstardeejay 0]

The tap-sync button on the stairville doesnt work like that, it's used to mark the change from one scene to another. Strobes are usually fired by giving a dmx value, increasing speed with the value, so you're best using a seperate controller for this unless your strobe has a built-in sound to light facility that can be called via DMX value.

 

 

 

 

[norty303 0]

If you're looking for a gneric well supported interface, the Enttec Pro is hard to beat. Obviously it won't work with specific manufacturers software who also produce a proprietary box, thats where their sales come from! :)

 

Will I be able to tap out a beat with the controller and the controller to then fire the strobe to the beat by itself once I have 'tapped'.. if you see what I mean?

 

Depends on your strobe and how it handles its triggering.

 

If it resets the time clock on triggering then simply set up the strobe time to be longer than the the beat time. You'll get only one flash per beat then, and if it resets on each trigger, you'll get the flash on the beat (you may have to set scene on, 1 scene off, 1 scene on, etc and then tap double time to get the flash on every beat.

 

I do a similar thing on my software but you can set a dummy scene to force the reset between the steps. these are often used to move a mirror or moving head to a position from the previous position before being switched on.

 

[2stepsteve 0]

If you're looking for a gneric well supported interface, the Enttec Pro is hard to beat. Obviously it won't work with specific manufacturers software who also produce a proprietary box, thats where their sales come from! :)

Depends on your strobe and how it handles its triggering.

 

I was tempted by the Enttec Pro but see that DMXcontrol does not support it . A shame as after taking a look at both DMXcontrol and freestyler, I kinda perfer DMXcontrol. The audio/beat detection looks quite alot better and the general interface also looks more polished. Also has rather nice joystick and MIDI control options. Seems like people have been waiting a long time for DMX control to support to the Enttec Pro.

 

What software do you use norty303?

Edited September 5, 2007 by 2stepsteve

[norty303 0]

From the website they say that the Enttec Pro driver is in development for DMXcontrol, so it might be worth hanging on for it if thats what you want to use. If not the Enttec Open USB is already supported but you're relying on the PC for the DMX generation. All depends on how critical your application is really. I thought the Pro was worth the money.

 

I use Chamsys MagicQ. Its the software off their high end desks, running on PC and is excellent if you can get 'under the hood'. It functions like a 'proper' lighting console like Avolites Pearl or Fat frog desk, so it sets you up well if you ever come across those. You can also buy 'wings' of faders and jog wheels to turn the PC into a full console but at the fraction of the cost of the real thing.

[davemoody 0]

I have had one of those Stairville sitting in storage for over a year now and haven't got the inclination to have a go at it.

 

I have to agree that for the average disco you don't need to bother with DMXing the lights.

 

If it is for a band, concert or a large venue which is looking for a nightclub feel then yes it is important to put on a good professional lightshow.

 

For me I have been using my CA8 handheld with my Pumas and Jaguars for ages with no problems at all.

 

Also run a couple of EGO3's to light the room along with a big 600W mushroom in the centre. Works for most size venues and never had a bad or a good comment about them.

 

What matters more is your professionalism and the music

[norty303 0]

Yeah, its worth pointing out that if you're running the light show, you won't have time to be DJing as well. I use Chamsys because i provide PA and lighting services, and when we go on a job to do lights, we do just that - all night.

[2stepsteve 0]

Yeah, its worth pointing out that if you're running the light show, you won't have time to be DJing as well. I use Chamsys because i provide PA and lighting services, and when we go on a job to do lights, we do just that - all night.

 

 

Thanks for all the useful info all!

 

I had alook at Chamsys magic Q its abit of a beast lol.. too complicated for what I need I think and too manual. Def get what your saying that I won't have anytime for controlling lighting while DJ'ing, am after really sound to light with alot of control and flexibilty when needed.

 

I have been reading alot about budget USB DMX interfaces and it really is abit of a minefield with what software is supported and various other little probs with certain interfaces and software. After alot of reading it comes down to Velleman K8062 or the Entec Open. My PC is well spec'ed and shouldnt have a problem generating DMX with the Entec open since with the Entec open the PC is used to generate and push out the DMX signal as it has no on board processor. The Velleman K8062 can be had at maplin for £60 but im reading there are some issues going on with dmxcontrol it being slow to output dmx.

 

Gonna scan around on the net for a few more days and decide on a interface

[2stepsteve 0]

Quick update on things.. I went for an enttec open interface, got myself a strobe, laser, and a roller.

 

I know the software is free and can't expect too much but.. blimey.. It is a headache. I don't wanna rub it into the faces of the programers as they are cleaver for what they have made but both DMXcontrol and freestyler are very under polished pieces of software that could def do with more love on the GUI side of things. Its like I know what I want to do, i have plently of time but the software is making it more than difficult. Doesn't help as well that both the programs arent fully in english! Im starting to think I should of went for a hardware controller instead.

 

Any ideas how I can get my stairville 1500dmx strobe to fire once on command? From what I can see so far it looks like the software (both dmx control and freestyler) are just sending out brightness and a time signals for the strobe to fire. Not a 'fire now at this brightness' signal, which im lookin for! Instead im getting misfires and delayed strikes where the internal timer inside the strobe isn't gettin to the end of the time and the dmx software gets to the end of the effect time. So I end up with either a delayed strike, or no strike at all..

Edited September 16, 2007 by 2stepsteve

[norty303 0]

Any ideas how I can get my stairville 1500dmx strobe to fire once on command? From what I can see so far it looks like the software (both dmx control and freestyler) are just sending out brightness and a time signals for the strobe to fire. Not a 'fire now at this brightness' signal, which im lookin for! Instead im getting misfires and delayed strikes where the internal timer inside the strobe isn't gettin to the end of the time and the dmx software gets to the end of the effect time. So I end up with either a delayed strike, or no strike at all..

 

 

Depends on your strobe and how it handles its triggering.

 

If it resets the time clock on triggering then simply set up the strobe time to be longer than the the beat time. You'll get only one flash per beat then, and if it resets on each trigger, you'll get the flash on the beat (you may have to set scene on, 1 scene off, 1 scene on, etc and then tap double time to get the flash on every beat.

 

I was using both Stairville 1500 and Martin Atomics on a festival stage this weekend, the Martins' clock is re-triggered by the rate channel, the Stairville doesn't.

 

The best you could hope for is to set the rate to blinder and trigger the intensity for a very short period. Having a desk that'll allow individual timings for cues in a stack (or steps in a chase depending on your terminology) should do the trick.

 

 

I know the software is free and can't expect too much but.. blimey.. It is a headache. I don't wanna rub it into the faces of the programers as they are cleaver for what they have made but both DMXcontrol and freestyler are very under polished pieces of software that could def do with more love on the GUI side of things.

 

I think i see your problem, you're looking for a very polished 'Windows' looking piece of software - however DMX (and running lighting) doesn't need it or require it. It'll be a period of adjustment but you don't need all the visual aids we've become accustomed to - if we did all of the high end companies would be making one. But they're not, they make a fairly standard format of playbacks on faders, jog wheels and a simple screen to give feedback.

 

If you want a good show you're going to need to persevere, there is NO quick route into good DMX lighting, it takes time to get to know the software and how to set things up. Freestyler actually can reproduce the playback type settings of a similar desk but it's less versatile. Have you looked at the music triggering in FS?

 

However it should be said that my foray into Freestyler was brief due to the frustrating nature of it's erratic behaviour and lack of seeming consistency.

Edited September 18, 2007 by norty303

[2stepsteve 0]

I was using both Stairville 1500 and Martin Atomics on a festival stage this weekend, the Martins' clock is re-triggered by the rate channel, the Stairville doesn't.

 

The best you could hope for is to set the rate to blinder and trigger the intensity for a very short period. Having a desk that'll allow individual timings for cues in a stack (or steps in a chase depending on your terminology) should do the trick.

I think i see your problem, you're looking for a very polished 'Windows' looking piece of software - however DMX (and running lighting) doesn't need it or require it. It'll be a period of adjustment but you don't need all the visual aids we've become accustomed to - if we did all of the high end companies would be making one. But they're not, they make a fairly standard format of playbacks on faders, jog wheels and a simple screen to give feedback.

 

If you want a good show you're going to need to persevere, there is NO quick route into good DMX lighting, it takes time to get to know the software and how to set things up. Freestyler actually can reproduce the playback type settings of a similar desk but it's less versatile. Have you looked at the music triggering in FS?

 

However it should be said that my foray into Freestyler was brief due to the frustrating nature of it's erratic behaviour and lack of seeming consistency.

 

Hiya Norty,

 

Cheers for confirming that with the stairville strobe, do you like me find its pretty mental that it has been designed in that way?!.. I gotta say it is very very irratating that the stairville 1500 strobe behaves in this way, and kinda pointless! Being able to fire a single flash on command is what its all about. The way the strobe behaves makes it near impossible to get the strikes in perfect sync to the beat. Way its (kinda) working at the moment is like you said, I have to get the flash rate up quite high and quickly up and down the brightness. Its not perfect but it crudely works.

 

Out of interest this strobe controller http://www.thomann.de/gb/stairville_strobemaster_i.htm has a single fire flash button. I wonder how/if that would function with the stairville 1500 strobe?

 

I guess I did want a polished piece of software, but no doubt there is room for improvement with freestyler and dmxcontrol especially with the user interface.. also sick of seeing messages/errors in German lol.. but after a couple of days playing i've made some effects, got them saved and have them linked with sound, pretty pleased with how things are looking. :)

[norty303 0]

The reason why the Stairville's don't do single flash is because they're cheap and it would cost more to build them with a re-trigger on the flash rate rather than just have it running.