Denon Or Pioneer?

[cmj 0]

I'm the fortunate position of using both the Denon DNS1000(my own) and the CDJ1000MK2(the clubs). I may be just imagining this but I find the Pioneers a lot more tolerant of scuffed//scratched discs. The Denons will stop dead and refuse to play until you eject the disc. The Pioneers? They'll play anything!!

 

Anybody else found this during the course of their night?

[milhouse 0]

As someone that does all club/bar work, and is faced with often awful setups in some places! - Ive had quite a few of the same experiences.

 

I bought a pair of Pioneer CDJ1000-MK3 decks around 15 months ago (I think it was). When they were first released they were awful at playing promo or non-shop bought CDs. They then released new firmware and it improved them no end.

 

They will play just about anything.

 

One bar that I play in has installed Denon DND4500s. They spit out and skip on Cds that my Pionners would play with ease. I often have embarassing moments when the 4500s will stop dead during a song because it has a finger mark on it, when the Pioneers will play it perfectly.

 

Ive also found the Pioneers will play ultra-scratched Cds that no other deck would have a hope in hell of playing.

 

Im often having to replace slightly scratched Cds because of this problem. The Denons just dont like them.

 

I take my Pioneers to most bars I can and plug them in. It makes for a care free night and ensures Im not having skipping Cds all night long. Ive not had one Cd skip on the Pioneers in over a year. The Denons however, skip multiple times a night.

[Dukesy 0]

Can't really comment, only use Pioneer!

 

http://www.djdeals.co.uk/prod-images/PioneerDVJ-X1mainimage.gif

 

[Gary 0]

I'm the fortunate position of using both the Denon DNS1000(my own) and the CDJ1000MK2(the clubs). I may be just imagining this but I find the Pioneers a lot more tolerant of scuffed//scratched discs.

 

And the price difference between those two players? The CDJ1K is Pioneer's top-of-their-range CD-deck, compared to the DN-S1000, which at under half the price of the Pioneer is Denons Entry level unit (with more features than most manufacturers top-of-the-range decks.)

 

Compare a Denon DN-S5000 (former UK/Current US flagship model) unit to a Pio1K with a pile of scratched CDs, and that'll be a different story again.

 

But ultimately in your original comparision CMJ, its simply two ends of the price spectrum.

 

 

 

[C.S 0]

I only ever use pioneer so wont comment

[DJ Marky Marc 0]

My S5000s were playing CDs in seconds that Brians CDJ1000 Mk3s seemed to take ages to read....

 

yes they are badly burned discs, the email I got from the record company saying sorry they have a problem and people with CDJ1000s were unable to get them to load fast or in some cases play at all..

 

I have the CD draws from a 4500 attached to my HD2500 and they play everything so far.. including CDs that CDJ1000 and my S5000s have problems playing..

 

I think its all a bit hit and miss as there are a lot of CDs that dont follow the rules and a lot of cheep media being burned as fast as possible...

 

CMJ you start your post as if its a genuine question and then go about slating kit...

 

if you want an answer to why some play and some dont you have to have a benchmark...

 

look at the firmware versions of the kit... some disc read problems are fixed in firmware upgrades.

 

the 4500 in the bar may not be the latest firmware... and i have seen some CDJ1000s Mk1s and 2s do realy odd stuff with some CDs

 

you are right it is crap when you play a bar or club and the kit wont read discs.. so I travel with my S5000s to venues that dont have CDJ1000s....

 

I can then predict what will and wont play :dan+ju:

 

 

[cmj 0]

By no means slating kit, I own the Denons in question and in the main, love them to bits, just sometimes a pain having to plan around CDs you know will definately play in a certain machine!

 

Having said that, with the CDJ's tendancy to randomly stop when playing I guess it evens itself out!

[TonyB 0]

By no means slating kit, I own the Denons in question and in the main, love them to bits, just sometimes a pain having to plan around CDs you know will definately play in a certain machine!

 

Having said that, with the CDJ's tendancy to randomly stop when playing I guess it evens itself out!

 

I didn't see it as you were slating kit, just asking a question.

 

I don't see what the price of the kit has to do with it either. I've got some KAM decks that were around £170 and they play anything thrown at them, minor scratches or finger marks don't make any difference and they are certainly not high end kit.

 

I do believe that lasers lose their efficiency in time so if the decks have been well used, a lazer replacement might increase their efficiency. A build up of dust on the laser could also be a problem.

[Tonsk 0]

My Denon DN-D9000 has played everything I have ever asked it to... (Except the last tracks on the Now compilations..)

 

Scratched, dirty - everything...

 

I NEVER worry when using them...

[DJ Marky Marc 0]

just sometimes a pain having to plan around CDs you know will definately play in a certain machine!

 

are you burning these CDs your self ?

 

are the CDs working on one denon S1000 and not the other ?

 

 

if your doing them your self try these steps

 

1) check you have the latest uptodate burning software... and your computer is only doing the one task.. no playing games while you wait for the cd to write...

 

2) check you dont burn at full speed ... burn at 4x or somthing slow

 

3) try a diference CD burner.. that could be the source of all your problems..

 

4) try a difernet make of CD media...

[cmj 0]

Not exclusive to burned discs, i tend to burn mine at the slowest speed with nothing else being done on the computer. Can just as easily occur with pre-recorded ones. Just seems that Pioneer's can deal with nicks, scratches and fingerprints a bit better. never had any experience with the models higher up the Denon range however. Also use the CDJ200 & CDJ800 with similar results, ie. a bit more forgiving than my DNS1K's.

[DJ Marky Marc 0]

a bit more forgiving than my DNS1K's.

 

check to see if there is a firmware update......

[brianmole 0]

Oooh, goodie! Another Pioneer / Denon debate!

 

My S5000s were playing CDs in seconds that Brians CDJ1000 Mk3s seemed to take ages to read....

 

Really? I have only had one problem with a vbr mp3 cd. To be fair Marc, I haven't loaded the latest fw yet on my CDJ1000mk3's.

 

Must do that...then you can try again.

[DJ Marky Marc 0]

Really? I have only had one problem with a vbr mp3 cd. To be fair Marc, I haven't loaded the latest fw yet on my CDJ1000mk3's.

 

Must do that...then you can try again.

 

 

yep it was some odd promo CDs from DATA that when put in your CDJs took ages to load up...

 

did you not notice he other Tuesday night in that hotel ?

 

 

[superstardeejay 0]

One thing from a technical point of view regarding cueing up time of any DJ CD player is the way the disc data is laid out. Different models cue up in different ways, some find the start of track flag then set the cue at the start of music flag, some find start of music flag and 'listen' to the the music till the cue threshold is found and set it there....and so on. If the CD originator has not set the flags correctly to red-book before the CD is pressed or burned or stamped or whatever, different machines of all sorts of brands are bound to react differently.

 

As an example, a pub where I DJ'ed had Denons. If I put a certain CD album in there, (I think it was NRG 95 or something) it would always cue up half a second into the music, if you tried to manually cue then it would not play the disc, only a half-second 'blip' then it would stop. This is because the track markers came late in the tracks, so the Denon always started at the start of track and cued up from there. Yet my home-based Pioneers would cue up the disc no problem.

 

On the other hand, with a home-burned compilation album I made on a Philips Hifi CD recorder; when played in the Pioneers, would not cue to music, when you pressed play it played a second's silence or so before the music came, so you had to remember to cue up manually. Yet this same home made disc played on any Denon would always cue up flawlessly every time! It's obvious the Denon and Pioneer way of cueing up is different at a software level.

 

As we get discs these days from Red Book, Orange book and goodness-knows-what book appearing all over the place, so we're more likely to see differences in the way our DJ-based CD players react to them. It's no doubt why we have such a varied response to issues like this topic, people will always get discrepancies when discs and players clash.

 

Just because a CD is a shop-bought original doesn't unfortunately mean it's strictly red-book any more..

Edited November 3, 2007 by superstardeejay

[eazy 0]

im using dns3500's and gotta say ive only had a cd stop once in about 18 months and this cd nearly has a hole in it . now you might be wondering why i tried to play it but it was because someone brought it to one of my nights and asked me to play it only found the gouge in dye when it stoped lol but apart from that they are flawless even when ive set up about 1 meter away from 2 18" bass bins at 1000w each that kinda anti shock impresses me . im sure pioneer cdj1k's are equal but i dont know as i use my denons everywhere possable

 

[Norfolk DJ 0]

One bar that I play in has installed Denon DND4500s. They spit out and skip on Cds that my Pionners would play with ease. I often have embarassing moments when the 4500s will stop dead during a song because it has a finger mark on it, when the Pioneers will play it perfectly.

 

Ive also found the Pioneers will play ultra-scratched Cds that no other deck would have a hope in hell of playing.

 

Im often having to replace slightly scratched Cds because of this problem. The Denons just dont like them.

 

 

I've found the Denon plays scratched CD's well, but not as good as my old soundla, that used to play anything!

 

[cmj 0]

Used a venue supplied DN4500 machine last night, 1st CD of the night(One of the CD Pool Promo Ones) stopped dead at 1m02s to go, not so much as a piece of dust on it!!! The machine was a bit nacked to be honest, play buttons very rarely worked unless you pressed it it a particular way(usually at one of the corners), Denon mixer(X400) was equally as battered.

 

The venue is owned by one of the big breweries as well . . . . .Loads of money . . . . no money for well maintained dj kit though! Why are they all tight when it comes to kit!!!

[Norfolk DJ 0]

Most in-house kit I have used had been fairly poor, mainly due to misuse by visiting DJ's.

[C.S 0]

Not once since 1983 have i played at a gig with in house gear that has been in poor condition. At present , clubs that want any of the club djs who work in this town have to have pioneer dj cd players and mixers or they dont get a dj !

[Dukesy 0]

The venue is owned by one of the big breweries as well . . . . .Loads of money . . . . no money for well maintained dj kit though! Why are they all tight when it comes to kit!!!

 

Probably comes down to the 'margin' that is set aside....just like the 'margin' for DJs (read more here)

[superstardeejay 0]

I have to say I was main resident at a brewery chain club for two years and whilst I was there (we) got through 1 Denon DN2000-II cd, 3 Denon DN1800 players, 1 Denon DN2100 player and 2 Denon DN2000-III players, a Cloud Discomaster then Citronic mixer and three Denon DNX400 mixers, 2 Kaleidovision PC media servers and 3 Trantec radio mics. All of it was broken by visiting DJs and damage included snapped CD drawers, missing knobs, missing Fader Shafts (!) and broken Mic capsules.

 

The sound system was Martin & OHM cabs driven from ancient Citronic PPX amps with Formula Sound control which never ever went wrong (but it was locked away!).

 

And anything that wasn't bolted down was usually stolen.

 

The venue is owned by one of the big breweries as well . . . . .Loads of money . . . . no money for well maintained dj kit though! Why are they all tight when it comes to kit!!!

Many managed venues (as opposed to tenanted houses) have year-round lease & service contracts with central companies and getting them out to service their equipment can be a real chore!

 

 

Edited November 12, 2007 by superstardeejay

[DJ Marky Marc 0]

All of it was broken by visiting DJs and damage included snapped CD drawers, missing knobs, missing Fader Shafts (!) and broken Mic capsules.

 

all that kit broken in two years... there are DJs out there with DN-2000s and 1800F that have been used 2 or 3 nights a week for years and they still look new and work perfectly, easy to know why, when you spend your own money on this kit you look after it...

 

the solution... make the DJs bring there own mixer and decks..

 

[DJ James Lake 0]

the solution... make the DJs bring there own mixer and decks..

I think this will become more the norm now that digital systems are so widely used and varied. A lot easier for a club to provide two XLR sockets than try to cater for numerous different setups.

[cmj 0]

In the ideal world I guess we would all prefer to use our own kit, unfortunately venues(here anyway) are not very forthcoming on stumping up the extra cash to cover it.