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#1 Reverandfunk

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 08:55 AM

Just on the topic of downloads and the legality of them, there are numerous sites which offer a "file sharing" facility and have been operating for a number of years so why have these sites sites not been shut down??

Is using these sites any different to borrowing a CD from a friend?

Just be interested to know peoples views....
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#2 Gary

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 09:31 AM

Some download sites are totally legal - generally the "high street name" ones, like The Woolworths site, The HMV site etc...and i-Tunes. These are legal, so long as the terms and conditions about what you do with the downloaded music are read and adhered to.

Some other download sites, generally speaking, the ones that give you all their files free, are in the most part - illegal. Such sites often stay operational by making use of legal "loopholes" eg: Locating their computer servers on an island which is located outside of US/International Law etc. Such download sites, or Peer-to-peer sites should be avoided by everyone, not just because of the piracy aspects, but because such sites often offer poor quality sound files, and worse, computer virus's, trojans and other malicious code, disguised as sound files. If you've ever been of these scurgy sites, downloaded a "tune(?)", tried to play it and "nothing" whistling.gif happened...you've probably just allowed some virus or spyware to activate on your PC.


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#3 robbiedj

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 09:31 AM

File sharing is illegal and people have been prosecuted for doing it.

As for borrowing a cd, if you just play it, ok. If you copy it, again it's actually illegal, though, as far as I know, rarely has anybody been prosecuted as a private individual. Using copied discs for a show is illegal, and people have been prosecuted. Apart from a hefty fine, they risk having all audio & video equipment in the venue confiscated. This includes upstairs in a pub, radio/tv/stereo etc.

It's not worth it.
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#4 Reverandfunk

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 09:46 AM

As I predominantly use a laptop, how would you differentiate if an mp3 that I'm playing is legal or not bearing in mind I've probably got about 5000 of them?


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#5 DJ Marky Marc

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 10:28 AM

QUOTE
how would you differentiate if an mp3 that I'm playing is legal or not bearing in mind I've probably got about 5000 of them?



This is where the licence thing comes into play..(they are still working on it) but you have the option to buy an SG6 licence..

to have MP3s on your laptop you would have done one of two things..

1) downloaded them from I tunes or simlar and got proof of purchase..

2) copyed them from CD or stolen them from the internet....

now as copying from the CD is a COPY and there for iligal in the eyes of current law I have put that as option 2 along with internet file sharing..

No one here is saying your a bad boy for ripping your now 68 to your hard drive ok.

now it works a bit like the TAX man... you have to prove they are not stolen, they dont have to prove you stole them...

so latop in a licenced venue with 5000 tracks of unknown origin would mean a big court court case and a lot of work on your part to find all the I tunes emails...

A DJ in europe was fined thousands of Euros for playing in a club with music from file sharing sites not so long ago...



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#6 Reverandfunk

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 10:55 AM

Thanks for the reply, in reality what are the chances of people turning up at say the local rugby club where I work and saying lets have a look at your collection??
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#7 deejaymitch

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 01:33 PM

QUOTE(Reverandfunk @ Dec 12 2007, 10:55 AM) View Post

Thanks for the reply, in reality what are the chances of people turning up at say the local rugby club where I work and saying lets have a look at your collection??


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QUOTE(Gary @ Dec 12 2007, 09:31 AM) View Post

Some download sites are totally legal - generally the "high street name" ones, like The Woolworths site, The HMV site etc...and i-Tunes. These are legal, so long as the terms and conditions about what you do with the downloaded music are read and adhered to.


What hacks me off though is that, say you legally download a single from HMV, you get it at a rubbish bit-rate (128 I think). But if you buy the CD from the shop you get 3 or 4 remixes and you can rip it at 320. So again, you're disadvantaged for doing it the legal way.
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#8 Dream Catchers

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 01:35 PM

QUOTE(robbiedj @ Dec 12 2007, 09:31 AM) View Post
all audio & video equipment in the venue confiscated

Robbie, I know you are pretty conversant with the music laws due to being involved with LWP.
Can you point us to the information you quote.
Also who enforces it and how?

QUOTE(DJ Marky Marc @ Dec 12 2007, 10:28 AM) View Post

A DJ in europe was fined thousands of Euros for playing in a club with music from file sharing sites not so long ago...

Have you got a link to the story?

I know that with pirate software which is a far far greater problem there have been very few prosecutions, also the people that have been prosecuted have been the dealers not the public.

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Edited by JimBoylan, 12 December 2007 - 01:36 PM.

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#9 Gary

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 01:53 PM

QUOTE(Reverandfunk @ Dec 12 2007, 10:55 AM) View Post

Thanks for the reply, in reality what are the chances of people turning up at say the local rugby club where I work and saying lets have a look at your collection??


Its quite possible already, and increasingly likely - especially once the licence gets re(released), hopefully next year.

The PRIMARY policing factor will be that the venue in which a DJ with pirated/copied...lets just say "unlicensed" tunes is playing would, under the terms of their existing PPL music license which ALL venues which play music for entertainment must already have, be either fined, and/or (much better, in my mind) have their venue PPL license cancelled - making it then illegal for that venue to play ANY music... and, since a silent venue might as well not bother opening, as well as the venue manager having a great deal of cringy explaining to next weeks Bride & Groom / 21st birthday boy why they cant have a band, disco, or even juke box/ipod playing at their "party" - the owness will be squarely on the venues shoulders to ensure that they don't let DJ Jolly Roger perform at their venue.

The quicker the message sinks in the better - I certainly wouldn't expect to see or hear of any DJs with collections consisting of predominately pirated tracks confess to it on-line, especially not on DJU.

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#10 Reverandfunk

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 02:00 PM

Thanks for the in depth reply Gary, but as far as policing it goes I personally cant see it happening, I'm not even sure as to what "body" would be responsible for enforcement.

I obviously have PLI and in 100 plus gigs how many times has anybody asked to see a copy of it???
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#11 doggyc69

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 02:04 PM

The bugger with this I got a couple of hundred indie cdísingles which I ripped and reduced to 10 cdís and I can get done for it the whole system is a joke

#12 Gary

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 03:24 PM

QUOTE(Reverandfunk @ Dec 12 2007, 02:00 PM) View Post

Thanks for the in depth reply Gary, but as far as policing it goes I personally cant see it happening, I'm not even sure as to what "body" would be responsible for enforcement.

I obviously have PLI and in 100 plus gigs how many times has anybody asked to see a copy of it???



It's already happening. PPL have issued venues with public performance licenses for several decades, and have policed those venues for more or less the same length of time. In MOST cases, the PPL Officer merely observes that the venue has merely got the wrong sort of PPL license (they do several types of license to cover various different styles of music use), and in most cases, the PPL officers simply tell the venue that they need to apply for license "X" instead of licenses "Y" and "Z". The PPL officers are not 9 til 5 based so, a DJ with pirated music material of any type shouldn't fool themselves, or others, in thinking that by starting at 7pm, they'll "get away with it".

It's been mentioned on-line in the last week that a venue turned away a DJ with a laptop due to licensing (or lack of) - the venues ARE getting wiser...admittedly slower than some would like - but it's understandable that a venue will do whatever it needs to do to protect its ability to play any music in its venue.

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#13 Reverandfunk

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 03:28 PM

You obviously know what you are on about, so what do you see the state of play being this time next year??
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#14 Dream Catchers

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 03:41 PM

QUOTE(Gary @ Dec 12 2007, 03:24 PM) View Post

It's been mentioned on-line in the last week that a venue turned away a DJ with a laptop due to licensing (or lack of)


He wasn't turned away for not having a license, he was sent home because he was using a laptop, there was no mention of him being licensed or not.......
QUOTE(Dave James @ Dec 9 2007, 01:52 PM) View Post

Hi,

I'm new to this board, i don't have a mobile disco, i play in bars and clubs who already have an install... however, i wondered if any of you have encountered something which happened to me last night?

I was sent home from a venue last night... for playing out with a laptop ! I've never played at this place before, but they are part of a national chain and i've never had an issue at any of their other locations.

The manager told me that he could be fined upswards of £50,000 if PRS descovered that I was playing music from a laptop. I am a member of PRS, and have never had any information to support this.

Have you experienced any thing similar? I've been using the laptop for 12 months, and have never had an issue with licensing or venues insisting that all music is played from Cd.

Cheers
Dave



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#15 Gary

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 04:01 PM

QUOTE(Reverandfunk @ Dec 12 2007, 03:28 PM) View Post

You obviously know what you are on about, so what do you see the state of play being this time next year??


We will all have to wait and see. There are those members who have just recently joined this forum in the last couple of weeks, or have registered a fair while back and have only just started posting about the whole licensing stirring pot, and those who were involved in the original discussions from ohh, about 18 months back - It would be well worth those recent joiners doing a search on the original posts about licensing etc, but bear in mind that the whole requirement for licencing is currently being reviewed with a hopefully far more practical license being hammered into shape thanks to the License Working Party and "the powers that be".


QUOTE(JimBoylan @ Dec 12 2007, 03:41 PM) View Post

He wasn't turned away for not having a license, he was sent home because he was using a laptop, there was no mention of him being licensed or not.......
Jim


Unless the venue had some other reason for turning him away, I would imagine that the venue saw the two "misdemeanours" (note to all: Please note the deliberate inverted commas used) as being inter-twined. There are exceptions.

Overall conclusion: Lets have this discussion again after the LWP have finished their discussions and the required license is advertised for purchase.

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