Beatmatching...is It Relevant Outside Of Club/dance Music?

[expresbro 0]

I've spent a little while playing around with the free DJ software Beatport Sync and am having great fun with it. But I'm at a bit of a loss as regards the BPM issue. I've played around with some dance tracks... not very expertly mind... and can see where Beatmatching can really work...but for regular chart music and rock music..is there any real benefit to trying to find tracks with similar BPM's?

 

This is probably a real Newbie question...but forgive me that as I am a Newbie ....

 

 

Cheers

 

Robbie

:hphone:

 

[Revelationroadshow 0]

Certianly not a daft question. There was a thread about this not so long ago actually - you might find it with a quick search.

 

I think the key here is to understand that whatever youa re playing, be it dance, trance, 60's or 70's, it all needs to be smoothly mixed from one track to another. Beat mixing is one of the ways of doing that, but not the only whay. You may choose to use that method for all your types of music, but it IS important to make the transition between two tracks sound right!

[robbiedj 0]

Beatmatching : Yes

 

Beatmixing : No

 

Obviously to keep a full floor matching the beat of a set is essential. You don't play one reggae, one disco, one smooch as a set, you play reggae or disco or smooch.

 

And you don't usually go from heavy club mix to a real slowy in one fell swoop. Keeping the momentum of the floor is what you are after.

[expresbro 0]

 

Thanks guys...:)

 

I did find the Beatmatching thread...and it was very informative ..but I am coming from a simpler angle.

 

I understand about the need to have tracks flow into each other as much as possible..and whenever I compile a set of songs I will always try to do that. But up to this I'd never really heard of beatmatching..so was unaware that it was another tool that can be used.

 

To be honest..up to now I've just pretty much done this by ear...but I'd love to know is there a system or a more precise way to improve the mix. I'm talking at the moment about simple fading one track to another...and keeping a mood going...not so much mid track mixes, which I think are something I'll worry about waaaay down the line. Have to learn to walk before I consider running.

 

So how do you experienced DJ's approach mixing your tracks? Is it trial and error or science...or a mixture of both....

 

I'd love to know.... smile icon

[superstardeejay 0]

Practice and experience! Practice at home if you're easily embarrassed. Be prepared to whack over the faders if the mix goes all to pot, to avoid jeers from the dancefloor! Dont have your headphones and monitor too loud. Dont try to drown out the PA with your headphones and monitor or you'll leave the venue deaf. Dont rely on unique machine-specific features such as automix, splitcue or beatcounters in case you guest-DJ at a club that has only basic equipment.

 

Everyone mixes differently, just look at club DJ's as a mix approaches, watch their face and their fingers and listen to the sound. Some hug their headphones with their shoulders, some just hold them up to an ear, some wear them in full, some hop up and down to the beat, some jig about, some just stand there nonchelant or steely-eyed. Some constantly play with the buttons or vinyl, some mess with the EQ, the faders, the PFL Buttons, some just seem to give the controls a quick flick and you've glided into the next track.

 

So find your own way which works for you! Different techniques give different DJ's their personality which has got to be good, we dont want all sets to sound like the 'In The Mix 96' album.

 

Lots of youtube videos show you the technical aspect of mixing eg what buttons to press or what to push or pull what and when, this depends on your equipment and your own approach. Dont lose heart if you dont become perfect after half an hour. Try again! No-one will be killed.

 

If you have no sense of beats at all, it'll take a little longer, I wouldnt know as I'm a musician as well as DJ. Hopefully before long you'll be mixing perfectly cueing off the PA where there's no monitor and automatically compensating for sound delays, shoving your CD or record on and beatmatching on the fly, and annoying the punters with backspins and stutters...well maybe not the last two, eh..??

 

 

Edited January 7, 2008 by superstardeejay

[Andy Westcott 0]

Quote:

"is there any real benefit"

 

For me, no.

I can beat-match/mix to a degree, but I hardly ever do it in front of an audience.

 

Depends on your presentation and audience requirements.

[nrgize 0]

I have searched for the Beatport Sync software and found it !!

 

 

 

Its a good piece of kits and its totally free. I have found this better than what I am currently using. I have been using Kra Mixer that was free off the internet for the past few years and not had any problems with it.

 

 

So thanks for bringing this up !!

 

:thanks:

 

[expresbro 0]

.... shoving your CD or record on and beatmatching on the fly, and annoying the punters with backspins and stutters...well maybe not the last two, eh..??

 

Hehe!! Definitely not the last two .... :joe:

 

 

I have searched for the Beatport Sync software and found it !!

Its a good piece of kits and its totally free. I have found this better than what I am currently using. I have been using Kra Mixer that was free off the internet for the past few years and not had any problems with it.

So thanks for bringing this up !!

 

:thanks:

 

no probs Nrgize...glad to be of assistance. I came across it in an article in a copy of International DJ magazine ..it's from the same people who make the Traktor package...

 

It's damn addictive ...

 

Think I'll still stick to my CD Players and Karaoke Player for gigs though for now ...

 

[Dukesy 0]

So how do you experienced DJ's approach mixing your tracks? Is it trial and error or science...or a mixture of both....

 

...and then some! There are members who both teach mixing and who may be able to advise/offer 'hands-on' advice on how they individually approach mixing tracks live; some members put in lots and lots of time and prepare/review their music and 'set-lists' to a more 'refined smooth mix' which may require a little or lot of practice. It may come naturally to the performer because they have an 'ear' for music or other methods can be adopted to help assist the mixer achieve the desired result. There is software as well as sites available to help with harmonic mixing - the mixing of music in compatible keys as well as online vids and tutorials.

 

For sure, the tools that we use for mixing can have lots or little features to make the 'mix' more 'interesting' but ultimately, I would say that it really comes down to the performer in how they put it all together no matter how clinical the pre-production is or whether music is simply presented from reading the crowd, if the desired music mix is to make an impact on an audience then by far, they will be the best judge!

 

Say the audience can be likened to 'canvas' and the music can be likened to 'textures' - all DJs paint a different "picture" with varying degrees of depth, detail, colour and content and of course perspective! Depending on the type / style of DJ, sure, it's pretty much going to be 'each to their own' and 'this is how I do it 'cos it works for me' as the aspect of mixing can be, and is, as individual, artistic and creative as the performer wishes it to be.

 

For general advice, understanding the 'music basics' of actual track arrangement and structure is very helpful. You will be surprised at how much you may already know from experience in performing. Knowing your measure and cresendo can be helpful as well as interesting too. Have a look at the demo downloadable music programs from either imageline or the ej series and have a play with putting a track together - it's fun too!

 

Hooking up with a DJ local to you is probably a good idea if you want feedback and wish to bounce ideas as well as generally reassure any doubts you may have from the 'hands on perspective'. Plus, it's great to network anyway!

 

[analyst 0]

Ha! Here we go then, my take on this

is there any real benefit to trying to find tracks with similar BPM's

Similar-ish - yes, matched - no,

 

I think Robbiedj summed it up best - don't make huge jumps in tempo/genre/era. Its about keeping the flow/momentum going, making it smooth and professional, just don't get paranoid about it.

 

As for beatmatching/beatmixing or whatever-the-hell you want to hype it up as, remember this is mobile dj party work, NOT a London club.

 

If the punters were avid clubbers they'd be at a club. The fact that they are not, probably means that for many, they want to avoid that and enjoy the alternative.

 

Speaking for myself, and I do love to "get up and boogie", I hate, no I HATE with a VENGEANCE, any venue where they beatmix/match/phart about with the music like that. I like to actually hear where one song ends and the next one starts when I'm dancing (no, I don't mean an actual break).

 

I can take a decision whether or not I want to stay on the floor for that song and I do get incensed that I can be treated like a moronic zombie by a smartass DJ who believes I will not notice that the friggin song has been changed.

 

I have been to venues, as a punter, where I had to muster all my anger management to restrain myself from getting up and rapping the DJ on the forehead for continuously phartin' around with the music, cutting, looping and being VERY annoying, playing at being a DJ.

 

If a track lasts 4m19s I expect to hear at least 4m09s of it unhindered, unblemished and unadulterated.

[/rant]

Edited January 8, 2008 by Gary

[C.S 0]

.

 

As for beatmatching/beatmixing or whatever-the-hell you want to hype it up as, remember this is mobile dj party work, NOT a London club.

 

If the punters were avid clubbers they'd be at a club. The fact that they are not, probably means that for many, they want to avoid that kind of shït and enjoy the alternative.

 

Speaking for myself, and I do love to "get up and boogie", I hate, no I HATE with a VENGEANCE, any venue where they beatmix/match/phart about with the music like that. I like to actually hear where one song ends and the next one starts when I'm dancing (no, I don't mean an actual break).

 

I can take a decision whether or not I want to stay on the floor for that song and I do get incensed that I can be treated like a moronic zombie by a smartass DJ who believes I will not notice that the friggin song has been changed.

 

I have been to venues, as a punter, where I had to muster all my anger management to restrain myself from getting up and rapping the DJ on the forehead for continuously phartin' around with the music, cutting, looping and being VERY annoying, playing at being a DJ.

 

If a track lasts 4m19s I expect to hear at least 4m09s of it unhindered, unblemished and unadulterated.

[/rant]

 

 

Thats quite some attitude there !

As a dj you should learn all the technical sides of your job as it will help you in the way that you present the music you are playing. Mixing technics can be used to change music genres and i certainly dont agree that beats must be similar and it isnt a great problem to go from house to reggae and make it sound smooth and good. Each dj should have his own particular style and try not to be the same as the next guy and the mixing side of things help to attain this.

To Analyst i would like to point out that you say you have been to venues where djs rap etc and you have had to use all your anger management to stop yourself rapping the dj . Why do you go to said venues ? Is it better to go and hear a dj give an awful cheesy 80s voice over before playing Gloria gaynor i will survive from its first to last note ? there are of course extremes in both mic work and mixing and too much is not good. I know a dj with a fantastic mic tecnique who after a voice over at a wedding was asked to refrain from doing so because they didnt want to feel like they were on the dodgems at the fair! It is important that the dj industry moves on and doesnt get stuck in the same rut because hey lets face it there are so many djs doing exactly the same thing that in some parts of the uk the prices are so low its ridiculous.

[brianmole 0]

A little bit of useful info to help is located here.

[expresbro 0]

 

Thanks for the advice guys.... lots to think about there. I guess DJ'ing is like any other activity..it can be as intricate or as simple as you choose..lots of different genres and styles to explore. My big passion/hobby, apart from music is photography...and that is exactly the same.

 

Right...I'm gonna bury my head back into the archives and keep reading...enough stuff in there to keep me going for a while yet... :thanks:

 

Oh and thanks for that link Brian....will check through it later.

[jamesmurphy 0]

 

So find your own way which works for you! Different techniques give different DJ's their personality which has got to be good, we dont want all sets to sound like the 'In The Mix 96' album.

 

 

Well off topic I know, but I had that album years ago - anyone got a copy of the tracklisting?

 

Thanks

 

[Reverandfunk 0]

In my opinion no.

 

No one has ever come up to me and said:

 

I love/hate your mixing

 

 

personally i think that if you're playing the music that people want to hear your audience couldnt care less.

[digitaldistortion 0]

Tracklisting????

 

Which 'In the Mix (96)' do you mean...there were at least 3 that year, and it carried on from there (a bit like a failed NOW series!!!!)

[analyst 0]

To Analyst i would like to point out that you say you have been to venues where djs rap etc and you have had to use all your anger management to stop yourself rapping the dj .

Chris, I think you misunderstood me there.

 

The only "rapping" I was referring to, was how I wanted to rap my knuckles on his forehead for destroying the music with his stupid "I'm a DJ" antics, not his mic techniques.

 

WTF does some arrogant buffoon with an over inflated ego on a set of decks believe that the music which an artist and the recording team have taken hours/days/weeks/months honing to perfection, can be improved upon by his stupid meddling/cutting/looping/adding silly sounds more akin to the soundtrack to a Tom and Jerry cartoon, in a matter of minutes?

[mick 0]

At one time I would have said no to the beatmatching/mixing thing however having read the article that Brian prepared for the BPM seminar I now try to choose tracks that blend together better. I have done a few quite decent mixes which do help to keep the dance floor moving. Having said this when playing 60's tracks it ads to the nostalgia with a bit of a break or dip between tracks. I think as has been said many times we are all different as DJ's. I would love sometime to go out to a gig with another DJ and watch his/her techiques from behind the decks as I am sure I am in a bit of a rut as far as track selection is concerned.

Brians article has definately made me more aware of mixing/blending tracks. :thanks:

[rictic 0]

i dont beatmatch at all really i dont think, not using the technology anyway.

i go with the flow, depends on how i feel and how i perceive the crowd to how i perform the transition.

i have been known to just cue up a reggae tune say and then wait till i know i can just throw the slider across and hammer into another. i change the moments when i do this type of thing.

sometimes i like to tease with a few seconds pure silence, good for changing genres i reckon, then i maybe play a james brown loop or sample from say the opening of 'make it funky' , up until he says " i don't know,but whatever i play it's got to be funky"

then in with some classic 70's funk or heavy disco.

 

i have even been known to play starguard 'which way is up' at the same time as donna summer.

 

gotta beatmatch that one tho altho it is so basic a beat its easy, but the thumping bass fills out other tunes.

 

try it it works lol.

 

each to his own.

 

i made some samples and looped them on my hdd such as hook phrases from motown tunes and stuff, i like to throw these into the mix sometimes, not enough to bore peeps but i love it when someone looks up and smiles when the notice.

 

when they dont notice i like it even more it means it was smooth as silk. then when they ask for the version with "the miracles" you know you done it right.

 

[C.S 0]

Chris, I think you misunderstood me there.

 

The only "rapping" I was referring to, was how I wanted to rap my knuckles on his forehead for destroying the music with his stupid "I'm a DJ" antics, not his mic techniques.

 

Nah i read it right :joe:

 

 

WTF does some arrogant buffoon with an over inflated ego on a set of decks believe that the music which an artist and the recording team have taken hours/days/weeks/months honing to perfection, can be improved upon by his stupid meddling/cutting/looping/adding silly sounds more akin to the soundtrack to a Tom and Jerry cartoon, in a matter of minutes?

 

 

Messers Oakenfold , Cooke etc seem to have done well out of it ! I see your point but at the same time it can make tracks interesting especially tracks that have been played to death in their original form but it needs to be done in a subtle manner. Horses for courses i suppose. Club life here is now very different with all kinds of music from different decades being played and little backspins and scratches tongue out icon

[superstardeejay 0]

Maybe worth remembering that a paid DJ is there to entertain the crowd! Make sure you enjoy it yourself, as this reflects on the set. Just dont enjoy yourself whilst emptying the venue!!

 

I mentioned the 'in the mix' albums (plugged by Dave Pearce) because they're mixed on a computer very well....and lack...well....soul.

 

 

[Andy Westcott 0]

Quote Analyst:

"WTF does some arrogant buffoon with an over inflated ego on a set of decks believe that the music which an artist and the recording team have taken hours/days/weeks/months honing to perfection, can be improved upon by his stupid meddling/cutting/looping/adding silly sounds more akin to the soundtrack to a Tom and Jerry cartoon, in a matter of minutes?"

 

Love it!

And I agree - he obviously does similar gigs to me, for similar people.

There is a place for messing about with the music, but the average 50th birthday party is not it.

You can watch the people dancing on the floor - as one track ends, they are looking hopefully in the general direction of the speakers for another stonker of a tune, and smile - even cheer sometines - as the next one starts.

 

Mixing the tracks together, cutting off generous portions of the start & finish of the tracks would destroy that - people know the songs, and want to hear them.

 

I suspect most people find a truncated classic as annoying as I do.

[expresbro 0]

Great discussion guys. From my point of view..and that would be more punter than DJ at this stage..I'd say we are discussing two separate entities here. One is the Mobile DJ playing chart and hit music to guests at a function or party and another is the club DJ playing music to a crowd who have come there to specifically listen to and dance to the music he mixes/plays. To my mind..with chart/hit music you'd be fairly limited in the amount of mixing you can do...mostly just a bit of fade in/fade out at the beginning and end of tracks..just keeping that flow going as much as you can and keeping the crowd interested enough to want to dance. I imagine that in a Club enviroment where it's mostly dance and electronic music then a healthy dose of beatmatching/Beatmixing/ scratching etc is not only expected but probably demanded. You only have to look at how top DJ's these days are treated like the popstars who's music they play to see that this kind of approach is very popular.

 

Of course if a Club DJ tried to play that kind of set at a function with a mix of ages..he'd probably be thrown out the door...

 

But really..at the end of the day, both types of DJ's are playing to their own audiences and both can be very successful while completely different in the way they operate.

 

Anyway...just thought I'd get that out there...sorry if I went on a bit :dan:

[Reverandfunk 0]

Spot on Analyst lol

[C.S 0]

Well that just about sums up who can mix and who cant then ! Waiting anxiously for the next track to start ? If it had been mixed properly then they would be dancing and cheering. Will be definately giving the next mobile dj i see who does an awful voice over on a track that everybody already knows or plays a track with full intro and until it ends a good slap. tongue out I guess the mix breaks in many records must be mind numbingly boring with nothing happening in them unless of course you use them to do the raffle ! It never ceases to amaze me the rivalry between club and mobile dj and how some people are so stuck in the past that they are not willing to try something to better their show and abilities. Its amazing that some of you use computers and not 78s ! tongue out icon And before anyone says it yes i do club but guess what i also do mobiles and have done since 1975

Edited January 8, 2008 by C.S