Redressing The Balance

[Mattaious 0]

I don't promote NADJ on here. If I tried my post would be moderated.

 

Only if any said post was against the forum rules of which you signed upto.

 

As a NADJ committee member, I am not welcome here, that is clear,

 

Not at all - Perhaps , if you provided more input and involved yourself in other topics other than self promotion and LWP. you wouldnt feel the way you do?

 

so I take part in other forums in the time I have available to avoid abuse from faceless strangers with only antagonism and no point to make.

 

:nono: i rest my case

 

I think that I am the only NADJ committee member that regularly uses forums, apart from Danno. Most of the NADJ committee members don't ever view the forums at all, so don't expect them on here, you'll be disappointed.

 

NOT AT ALL

 

If you don't want to join NADJ, don't join. I cannot understand why anyone would want to slate an organisation that they don't want to join. Except for the fun of baiting..... another reason why NADJ visits are rare.

 

No one is slating the NADJ - purely asking questions of what benefits etc - Oh which to this day and from all the posts on this thread - No one is able to answer ( SMOKE AND MIRRORS )

 

Why are there different rules for NADJ and SEDA with regard to promoting meetings on here? Asked in the new DJU spirit of openness and inclusion, of course

 

No different rules at all - I think if you read through the forum AUP and also what is required then you can answer that yourself.

 

NADJ members can see the accounts in detail once they are finalised at the end of each year, non-members demanding such a right 'on behalf of members' - ha, whatever next?!

 

Again - Non members of your association of which may have an interest on joining - Cards getting close to the chest?

 

I pop on here every Sunday evening when I am at work and it is quiet enough for me to spend the time. I generally only look for any queries about licensing or the LWP. I shall continue to do so until I am asked not to.

 

Again, Why not submit your views and comments on other matters - Again besdies self promotion? Or perhaps talking about the pros and cons of a certain piece of equipment is to far stretched for such an organisation?

 

I should point out, perhaps, that apart from answering licensing threads, all my posts on DJU, except in one thread about NADJ raised by another poster, have been giving advice/opinions/being helpful etc.

 

Again - LWP and NADJ promotion - Even in a thread with no relevance to NADJ or the like.

 

 

So its Sunday evening, I pop on here and, true to form, I see this thread - pinned for effect too! - whatever next?

 

Any concerns or issues you have with the organisation of any part of the forum can be addressed to a member of the Admin or Moderation team

 

 

 

Good Day to You

Edited January 21, 2008 by mattaious

[Reverandfunk 0]

As someone still fairly new to this playing music caper, I don't belong to any associations partly through ignorance and partly through whats the point, what would i gain?

[mikeee 0]

This "what will it do for me" type question is actually a very intertesting one, and indicitive to the UK.

 

So I put my thinking cap on, and went an looked at other "Associations" inc. AA, RAC, Knitting Guild etc, I think you can see were I'm coming from. When all the gloss and offers are put to one side, only one thing is the common denominator and that is ASSISTANCE, this is made up of Networking (meeting others in the same or associated industries), discounts, so on and so forth, but at the end of the day the word is ASSISTANCE, it can't do your job, it can't tell you how to do your job. It can assist you with information on new kit, new music, new regulations - keeping you legal. The iceing is the discounts, special offers etc. To my mind, something more than that is to be active at local level and government level. I think you get the idea of where I'm coming from.

 

A very good example, I believe is Danno 13, who's have a whale of a time with the local meeting in his area.

[Reverandfunk 0]

If im paying say 60 quid a year for something i am obviously going to want to know what it will give me.

 

networking? already do it locally

 

Discounts? dont really need any more kit but if i do i can pick stuff up off ebay for ridiculous prices

 

To be honest if i could see real tangible benefits I would consider joining but i cant see any tangible benefit that I would get that I havent got already and for free.

[spinner 0]

This "what will it do for me" type question is actually a very intertesting one, and indicitive to the UK.

 

 

If this translates as "what do I get for my money?" this is hardly peculiar to the UK.

 

It's a universal thing when people are asked to spend money.

 

They want to know what they'll get for it.

 

And why not?

[andyw 0]

mikee i joined the aa because if my car breaks down i don't know enough about cars to fix it,(if my amp goes down at a gig would a member of nadj be on callout 24/7 i know a few local dj's that would help me through this forum)before joining i shoped around and asked questions what do i get for my money,what sort of service etc the same as i would do when taking out any subscription or buying anything.when buying most things i shop around and don't always buy it from the cheapest source but would evaluate the overall package including the saleperson.now quote phil cunningham "to avoid abuse from faceless strangers with only antagonism and no point to make" these facelist strangers are potential nadj members maybe sceptical but before supporting anything we want to know what you stand for and what are money is being spent on.maybe your committee would be better joining forums(not just this one) and showing us what kind of people are running nadj,embrace the forums and your membership might increase .

back to mikee quote" When all the gloss and offers are put to one side, only one thing is the common denominator and that is ASSISTANCE, this is made up of Networking (meeting others in the same or associated industries), discounts, so on and so forth, but at the end of the day the word is ASSISTANCE, it can't do your job, it can't tell you how to do your job. It can assist you with information on new kit, new music, new regulations - keeping you legal. The iceing is the discounts, special offers etc."

is this what i would get joining nadj , alittle disappointing because apart from the discounts i can get all the rest from this forum at what cost £000 per year .a real bargain.sorry if i sound sceptical i really don't want to, because a good organisation representing our needs would be benificial to all of us,especially at the moment with licensing issues going on.maybe nadj is it but i don't see or hear anything that makes me believe that unfortunately.

from a facelist stranger.

[Paul Smith 0]

So its Sunday evening, I pop on here and, true to form, I see this thread - pinned for effect too! - whatever next?

 

I do still have a few more points (mainly from members) to add to this discussion but it will take time to sort through the messages so that I only post what I have been given permission to and respect the anonymity of those who have contacted me.

 

In the meantime just in case Phil comes on-line before next Sunday I just want to say that topics about NADJ meetings have also been pinned until the day of the meeting - DJU supporting the NADJ - whatever next eh :joe:

 

[Corabar Steve 0]

Speaking as an outsider to both the NADJ & the DJU Admin staff, can I just say how childish this thread is beginning to appear

[mikeee 0]

It is a bit...

 

Anyway, You don't have to join the NADJ, there's SEDA, DJA and DJA. If you classify yourself as a professional entertainer then it's Equity, there is a big choice out there.

 

I still haven't read the first post yet, I don't even know why it was started.

[wizard 0]

Hmmm very interesting thread.

 

I am surprised it hasn't been modearated :joe:

 

personally I think you should all just kiss and make up.... it does seem to be going nowhere.

 

 

nuff said by both sides I think

 

 

[Paul Smith 0]

I am surprised it hasn't been modearated :joe:

 

The thread has been deliberately placed in a non-public area so that we can hopefully allow our members to have this sorted once and for all. We have a lot of members who are not happy with the way the NADJ treat this forum (& other issues too). Some of these have already been posted here.

 

OK I agree that this is not the type of thread we would normally have on DJU but it's maybe because of this that things are now the way they are.

 

I appreciate that some members who care deeply about the NADJ and indeed others who couldn't care less would rather the thread disappear. The result would be further festering under the surface - ready to blow up at another time.

 

For a long time I have felt that DJU is treated with contempt by the NADJ - to be used as and when required but at other times to treat us, and questions from our members, like a bad rash. This is a feeling that is not unique to me and the consequence has been some aggressive and/or sarcastic posts from members of both DJU and the NADJ.

 

Let me add another concern - during the latter part of 2007 DJU members organised a meeting for DJs in East Anglia. Other forums also came on board for a very successful 'inter forum' meeting. Derek Pengelly attended by invitation and gave a talk on the benefits of joining the NADJ. The problem some of our members have with trying to organise a 2nd meeting is that the NADJ took it upon themselves to advertise it as a 'NADJ East Anglian branch meeting' on their website when this is not the case - now changed to 'Proposed NADJ Branch' which is still wide of the mark.

 

Several of our members boycotted the 1st meeting when they heard that the NADJ were to be involved and now they are aware of this NADJ claim are planning to organise their own EA meeting so that it can go ahead without the risk of NADJ (or any other organisations) involvement. If I were a member of the NADJ executive I would be concerned about this.

 

Why are some DJs so opposed to the NADJ? I can only guess that, like me, they are suspicious of an organisation which charges money yet keeps so much under wraps. I have already posted some of the other theories in an earlier post.

 

I would say to the NADJ committee - don't look on this as an attack on your organisation but as a chance to put the record straight, to quell the rumours and to convince those members of DJU who, for a number of reasons choose not to join, why they perhaps should consider it.

 

Knowing the membership of this forum quite well I would suggest that only straight answers will resolve this issue.

 

 

 

[Phil Cunnington 0]

Again, Why not submit your views and comments on other matters - Again besdies self promotion? Or perhaps talking about the pros and cons of a certain piece of equipment is to far stretched for such an organisation?

 

I should point out, perhaps, that apart from answering licensing threads, all my posts on DJU, except in one thread about NADJ raised by another poster, have been giving advice/opinions/being helpful etc.

 

Again - LWP and NADJ promotion - Even in a thread with no relevance to NADJ or the like.

 

Good grief. I can hardly believe I am reading this! If the moderators can't see how a post like this completely ignores what I have written, in fact completely ignores the truth (with regard to my input and advice on other threads) and then finishes with some mad paranoia that I mentioned the 'N acronym' which is somehow turned into promotion. You say this is not antagonism?

 

Now with all this childishness, ask yourself, why would any, except the DJU faithful, want to take part in this? I don't.

 

One last idea, don't even join 'N acronym' Send me a PM or email and I will invite you as my guest and you can come to the AGM and you will get all the information you seem to want so badly.

 

Why are some DJs so opposed to the NADJ? I can only guess that, like me, they are suspicious of an organisation which charges money yet keeps so much under wraps. I have already posted some of the other theories in an earlier post.

 

I would say to the NADJ committee - don't look on this as an attack on your organisation but as a chance to put the record straight, to quell the rumours and to convince those members of DJU who, for a number of reasons choose not to join, why they perhaps should consider it.

 

Knowing the membership of this forum quite well I would suggest that only straight answers will resolve this issue.

 

An appropriate reply would say - who on earth do DJU think they are some sort of industry ombudsman?

 

A second question might be - the original post said it was asking generally about associations and was targetting none in particular. Funny how you, Paul, have turned it into an 'interrogate NADJ' thread.

 

Why do I bother to reply on here when onlookers keep advising me not to rise to the bait but to be a politician and let it be? Perhaps because I thought I would give DJU one last chance to be the properly moderated, fair and impartial forum it purports to be. Perhaps DJU members should look closer to home when questions about transparency etc. are asked.

 

Anyway, I am offended by the insinuation that 'N acronym' somehow hide what they do for underhand reasons. You make it sound like those that give so generously of their time for the benefit or others have something to gain or hide. That is very, very worng and shame on DJU for alowing such posts. Members of any association are the people to call an association or its committee to book and I'm sure they would do if they had something to complain about

 

Dan will be laughing his socks off that I (and 'N acronym') are able to be insulted in such a way without a proper right to reply.

 

So, I have made an offer of an invite in another post. That stands. Otherwise LWP matters will be posted here by other LWP members and, once this thread is closed, I will stay off. (Cue loud cheers from certain DJU members)

[Revelationroadshow 0]

The thread has been deliberately placed in a non-public area so that we can hopefully allow our members to have this sorted once and for all. We have a lot of members who are not happy with the way the NADJ treat this forum (& other issues too). Some of these have already been posted here.

 

OK I agree that this is not the type of thread we would normally have on DJU but it's maybe because of this that things are now the way they are.

 

I appreciate that some members who care deeply about the NADJ and indeed others who couldn't care less would rather the thread disappear. The result would be further festering under the surface - ready to blow up at another time.

 

For a long time I have felt that DJU is treated with contempt by the NADJ - to be used as and when required but at other times to treat us, and questions from our members, like a bad rash. This is a feeling that is not unique to me and the consequence has been some aggressive and/or sarcastic posts from members of both DJU and the NADJ.

 

Let me add another concern - during the latter part of 2007 DJU members organised a meeting for DJs in East Anglia. Other forums also came on board for a very successful 'inter forum' meeting. Derek Pengelly attended by invitation and gave a talk on the benefits of joining the NADJ. The problem some of our members have with trying to organise a 2nd meeting is that the NADJ took it upon themselves to advertise it as a 'NADJ East Anglian branch meeting' on their website when this is not the case - now changed to 'Proposed NADJ Branch' which is still wide of the mark.

 

Several of our members boycotted the 1st meeting when they heard that the NADJ were to be involved and now they are aware of this NADJ claim are planning to organise their own EA meeting so that it can go ahead without the risk of NADJ (or any other organisations) involvement. If I were a member of the NADJ executive I would be concerned about this.

 

Why are some DJs so opposed to the NADJ? I can only guess that, like me, they are suspicious of an organisation which charges money yet keeps so much under wraps. I have already posted some of the other theories in an earlier post.

 

I would say to the NADJ committee - don't look on this as an attack on your organisation but as a chance to put the record straight, to quell the rumours and to convince those members of DJU who, for a number of reasons choose not to join, why they perhaps should consider it.

 

Knowing the membership of this forum quite well I would suggest that only straight answers will resolve this issue.

 

Unfortunately it is late for those of us with new children and as such difficult to give this topic the reply it seems to deserve.

 

However, can I please set the record straight. As I ultimately became the initail organising front man of the first meeting, please can I put some facts on the table amongst what seems to be rather inaccurate comments and rumours!

 

1. NADJ were INVITED by myself to join a non-associated group meeting for the first time to discuss what involvement the NADJ "could" have in our region. They were certainly not invited to help form the EA NADJ branch and this has NEVER been the intention. The meet was the fist part of open and honest communication between fellow DJ's and an oportunity to take that away from the faceless internet. Thise who it has been suggested "stayed away" because of the NADJ invite both failed to let me know that they had a problem (either privately or on a public forum) and secondly missed out on something really good - those individuals loss not mine or the other guys who attended.

 

2. The ongoing development of anything in East Anglia will and always WAS intended to be a collective and democratic decision. I can only offer up my thanks to DJU and many many other internet forums who have allowed us to promote the first and now the second on the internet. It is not and never has been my intention to offer up any form of affiliation to anyone, let alone internet discussion groups until the collective group of DJ's actively involved in or attending meeting agrees a majority concensus and allows us to move forward. For what it's worth, NADJ have been nothing more than supportive and honest and open with me throughout.

 

3. For our industry to move forward, I firmly believe that we need to fordge new and exciting relationships with each other on a very personal and face to face basis. Internet forums and discussion groups such as this one and the many others are a wonderful communication and development too, but the real coal face work can only be done at a local and personal level. Like it or not, so far I can only see two organisations doing anything near this, SEDA and NADJ. The future MAY add another name into this, but we will see what the local guys in this area choose to do and the path THEY choose to take. The important thing for me and I hope the others involved is to get all the support, information and help to take the correct and right path and decisions for our region. Please allow us to do that!

 

[Danno13 0]

The problem some of our members have with trying to organise a 2nd meeting is that the NADJ took it upon themselves to advertise it as a 'NADJ East Anglian branch meeting' on their website when this is not the case - now changed to 'Proposed NADJ Branch' which is still wide of the mark.

 

Several of our members boycotted the 1st meeting when they heard that the NADJ were to be involved and now they are aware of this NADJ claim are planning to organise their own EA meeting so that it can go ahead without the risk of NADJ (or any other organisations) involvement. If I were a member of the NADJ executive I would be concerned about this.

 

Thats sadening to hear, especially as someone who has put countless hours into making improvements to the NADJ website including promoting various industry events such as the East Anglian DJ meet.

 

It's bizarre that some members would boycot the meeting simply due to the involvement of NADJ and I really can't see the logic or motives behind this, it just smacks of plain arrogance, ignorance and closed-mindedness to me and certainely not what this industry needs.. no matter what forum or association you're affiliated with.

 

If said persons are so upset then why has no-one emailed me (as webmaster) or any other committee member about their concerns? It's right there to see on the NADJ homepage that we're an open association and more than welcome feedback and ideas, good or bad.

 

This whole topic stemmed from the accusation that NADJ use this forum for promotion and nothing else. Yet, when we, as an association try to help promote a DJ meeting we face criticism and bad feeling and we don't even ask for anything in return!

Edited January 21, 2008 by Danno13

[Paul Smith 0]

who on earth do DJU think they are some sort of industry ombudsman?

 

No we are ordinary DJs

A second question might be - the original post said it was asking generally about associations and was targetting none in particular. Funny how you, Paul, have turned it into an 'interrogate NADJ' thread.

 

Like you Phil I am merely a spokesperson for the members who have asked me to speak on their behalf.

 

Perhaps DJU members should look closer to home when questions about transparency etc. are asked.

I await with interest your concerns on this

 

Anyway, I am offended by the insinuation that 'N acronym' somehow hide what they do for underhand reasons. You make it sound like those that give so generously of their time for the benefit or others have something to gain or hide. That is very, very worng and shame on DJU for alowing such posts. Members of any association are the people to call an association or its committee to book and I'm sure they would do if they had something to complain about

 

Again I am merely expressing the concerns/opinions of our members as passed to me - I made it clear that they might just be rumours etc but your refusal to respond to them will never quell them or convert more DJs to your organisation.

 

Once again you treat DJU members with contempt by failing to answer what are, for them, genuine concerns.

 

Dan will be laughing his socks off that I (and 'N acronym') are able to be insulted in such a way without a proper right to reply.

 

This thread has been purposely put where it is so that you can reply honestly & out of public view. Although all posts to it go into a Mod queue by default, none have been moderated and you not only have a full right to reply but it is welcomed so that we can try and resolve things to our members satisfaction.

 

And no I don't want to see you leave the forum - I would rather you stay, put our members concerns at rest and become an active member.

[Dukesy 0]

Whilst historically, the original statement of fact will remain, obviously whilst we do not live on a coin, there are two sides.

 

It has been suggested that DJU offers an apology to Phil, feeling rattled etc.

 

Openly, I will happily state here and offer a sincere apology to Phil on behalf of the forum if any member of the forum community has been abusive and insulting to his character which of course is out of order.

 

Personal abuse will not be tolerated on the forum. The moderation team and administrators take a dim view of such rule violations, dealing with reports of abuse confidentially and quickly.

 

It has been suggested that a member of the NADJ and of this forum is officially recognized as the spokesperson or liaison regarding NADJ matters.

 

As an ideal, with one person who is both an association representative and who regularly contributes to the community will hopefully reduce and lessen any "hostility" perceived or actual from forum members when questions are asked in relation to the association, and, such representative will be expected to use the forum facilities in place should they receive direct abusive PMs, etc - the moderation team are here to help.

 

Whilst an olive branch may not be seen to be ideal to accept, it is still nonetheless offerd in the same spirit as those extended before. Not a white flag, just a simple solution to a problem which needs to be resolved if wanted.

 

Please let there be no illusion that forum members are not permitted to promote their association meets on the forum. Quite the contrary!

 

Like SEDA, the NADJ have been permitted and already promote event meetings in the Event area.

 

Whilst the forum actively encourages and promotes its members to organize their own social meet-ups, if the designated area of this forum is abused or reported to be taken advantage of by anyone as a direct result of our time, goodwill and efforts - the area will simply be removed.

 

There is no monopoly on the mobile dj industry and indeed, we should all be working ideally together towards the solutions to the problems of identity and how to establish our true worth. Recognising the remit boundaries of organisations that should co-exist is one small step towards achieving this and requires little effort on both sides for sure.

 

Because there are DJ services who will want to be recognised for their professional standards, and those who will seek ways to hopefully help distance themselves from the amateur so that they can deliver quality and maintain reputations of high value to earn what is regarded as realistic, any organisation that focuses on such evident needs and provides a guide is absolutely great in my book and long may it continue.

Ultimately, the judge will be the one who feels happy with the level of help given, paid for or not.

[mikeee 0]

This thread is getting very silly, and the only thing it is achieving is to get people rattled, which doesn't help this forum at all.

 

I have just read through the 7 pages of the Eastern meet thread on this forum and to be quite honest, I had to read parts of it several times as it does read as an "open" invite to NADJ, and if anyone said to Derek on the night, something like "that was great", or "we must do this again" or similar wording, I can see where any misunderstandings have come from.

 

I now need to go and read the Eastern Meet on the other forums, as I have been told thats were the problem lies. Thank you for the information Mr / Mrs / M/s Anon???

[old soul 0]

Slow down, I haven't finished digesting the first post yet!!!!

 

Right profound statement time:

Forums are a bit of fun, they are a place were like minded people can chat, talk about problem etc ect. This is why they are so many forums (over 30 in the UK), different people fall into different groups. At this moment this forum has 4,6xx members, if everyone of those was an active poster, you would still only be looking at 0.5% of the DJ population (my source is Martin Lighting who early last year calculated that there are about 450,000 DJ's in the UK).

 

By the nature of what a forum is (in this sense), it will never achieve major changes within the industry, I saw this during the late 90's early 00's on the American forums and bar one, they have become either little secret societies making excuses as to why they can't be viewed by the world, or they have desimated themselves. I really thought that because the UK is smaller, and that we as a race are quite sensible, that everything would come together, OK hands up, I was wrong, we are heading down the same road, but only time will tell.

 

I used the term (In this sense) in the last para, I did so because I didn't want to get confused with the other types of forums which are made up of invited industry leaders to work out ways forward, mostly out of the gaze of the public eye.

 

We have followed the American lead in calling on-line chat boards "forums", yes they have a valuable use, in teaching each other little tricks and tips, but alias, in making a big noticable change to the industry, I think not, even the dear old NADJ are still along way away from cracking the ice that the MU and Equity cracked years ago. When the NADJ, or other professional body, reaches the 30,000 + membership level, then it will be noticed, until then it, like it's predecessors will be a voice in the wilderness, but, hey, 29,000 might sign up this year.

 

Now, I'm going to try and read the first post so that I know what this thread is all about!!!

 

Probably not really my place to comment here, as I'm both fairly new, and only recently back into this profession. However, I would like to take some issue with some of the above points regarding "forums" or "chat boards". I DJ'ed from the mid 80's through to the mid 90's on a very regular basis, not full time, but often matching my daytime income. During that time I knew about four or five other mobile DJ's, and spoke regularly to two of them swapping ideas and sometimes gigs. Club DJ'ing I mixed in a slightly wider spread circle, but invariably worked the same nights with same group of DJ's.

 

In short, the vast majority of my DJ'ing has been "pre-internet". Last year, after a fair break of some years, I decided to dust off some equipment and have another play, big difference this time though. I would say that within a year frequenting forums such as this, I've had more interaction with other DJ's, and more importantly learnt more proffessionalism than I had in my previous fifteen years of DJ'ing. Internet forums, principally this one and one other have had a massive impact on the way I work, and I would imagine on my long term earning potential too.

 

It may well be that I would gain even more by joining a DJ association, and it's something I will look into over the coming months, but I believe it's very wrong to belittle what can be gained by proffesional people by "forums" such as this.

 

Hope this is not coming across as a dig mikee 'cos it's not intended to be, I've learnt from your posts as well as many others, but rather a contrasting opinion.

 

Last thing, as someone who runs a forum, and moderates on others (non DJ) I know what a truly difficult job and balancing act it can be, and why it is so important that there are clearly defined rules. I find this hard in spite of the fact that the forums I moderate on are not frequented by both people earning their living and those looking to hire them, that must make it all the harder.

 

The rules on private internet forums/boards are always the same, My site, My rules, your choice. It's the only way it can work.

 

 

Right, I'll leave this thread to those who know what they are talking about now :ads:

 

[Paul Smith 0]

This thread is getting very silly, and the only thing it is achieving is to get people rattled, which doesn't help this forum at all.

 

I see it as a chance to clear the air - for the NADJ to address the concerns of our members and to put things on an even keel for the future. Having it boil under the surface for any longer doesn't do either organisation any good

I have just read through the 7 pages of the Eastern meet thread on this forum and to be quite honest, I had to read parts of it several times as it does read as an "open" invite to NADJ, and if anyone said to Derek on the night, something like "that was great", or "we must do this again" or similar wording, I can see where any misunderstandings have come from.

 

I now need to go and read the Eastern Meet on the other forums, as I have been told thats were the problem lies. Thank you for the information Mr / Mrs / M/s Anon???

 

It's because of these 'misunderstandings' that this thread is here - let's clear them up and move on - we will achieve nothing by pretending that they don't exist or by sweeping them under the carpet.

 

I suggest we stop all the debate on why the thread is here or whether it should be here and concentrate on the issues that have been raised in it in the hope that we can clear them up to our members satisfaction.

 

[rictic 0]

i just read this in the nadj's chairmans letter

quote

 

I will ensure that NADJ will work ever more closely with other DJ associations in

order to provide, wherever possible, a united National voice speaking out on issues

affecting DJs of all kinds in 21st century Britain and Europe.

unquote

 

make of it what you will.

 

 

[Danno13 0]

Again I am merely expressing the concerns/opinions of our members as passed to me - I made it clear that they might just be rumours etc but your refusal to respond to them will never quell them or convert more DJs to your organisation.

 

Once again you treat DJU members with contempt by failing to answer what are, for them, genuine concerns.

 

If they have genuine concerns perhaps they should raise them directly. I'm sure you wouldn't want to be in a position where you could be deemed to infulence any concerns due to the pre-moderation that exisits in this section of the forum (sorry.. but you call for honest debate, yet posting this in this secrion is ironic beyong belief)

 

In any case, such discussions are not for public display due to their private nature which you've confirmed by stating that these members have expressed concerns in privare rather than in direct communication to the NADJ committee.

[Paul Smith 0]

At the risk of repeating myself - the topic is in this area so that it is not viewable to the public. By default all posts go in a Mod queue in this area however none have been edited (if they were an 'edited by' would appear at the bottom of the post).

 

So to all intents and purposes this is a private area where members can express their opinions and ask questions. Some of those questions I have put on behalf of our members (by request) but it doesn't make them any less important.

 

If you want to blame the messenger sobeit -but our members are looking for answers to their questions ...

[rictic 0]

ok guys, it is in this section purely so joe public cannot see what is for all intents and purposes a rift between differing opinions and views.

no other reason. i trust the mods implicitly in this.

 

also i cannot see the cause for such a rift.

lets look closely at the situation and points.

 

nadj charge a fee dju does not.

 

now immediately that will pre determine what each has in their own particular charter, it has to.

 

one has a source of income from it's members and must be seen to be accountable and transparent with it's accounts. it MUST be able to offer paying members tangible benefits over and above a non fee paying union.

 

now personally i have seen more postings and advice here at dju for free, the member list is larger and it seems the forum is more active.

 

 

the benefits i looked at on nadj re networking and discounts arent relevant to many people as the networking here is free and discounts can be obtained anywhere almost for cash or pricematching.

will i get a double discount for cash and also being a nadj member? i think not.

 

nadj is currently looking into insurance: will this be part of the membership package? or will it cost more on top? if more on top why go through nadj? go to the m.u. or dj guard.

 

i understand nadj has to protect itself as it is a fee charging organisation answerable to its members.

 

but dju is autonomous non affilliated and free. we are not bound by shackles or having to sweeten the pot to entice people to part with 40 or 50 sovs. we can be what we want how we want within the rules created by admin.

 

the networking oppurtunities here are as large as anywhere i have seen.

the advice is top notch, and the knowledge of most guys here is vast.

i

f we as dju decided to network properly and come up with a scheme where we could offer short notice cover for each other and support, we would rival any association in the country and we are free.

 

rambling a bit now.

 

but my point is , pay your money and take your choice.

 

i for one prefer to stay here , i am comforable with it, cant see the point in spending 50 smackers for what i get here for nothing.

 

value what we have here , join in, make this the model for dj forums everywhere . the sky is the limit.

 

 

[Dukesy 0]

Interesting read rictic, but I must point out that as a forum, we are merely an online community whereas the association has branches and builds upon the goodwill of the paying member to help it grow so that they can form more branches to enable their ever-growing membership to seek discounts and benefits to pass on to their membership, strength through unity and size, etc, etc....seek identity, etc, etc sort of thing.

 

Unlike on an online community, association members can physically meet the fellow members at the branch meeting and naturally swap advice and marketing ideas to help improve local market, as well as view invited retailers to peruse wares and purchase at discount, discuss DJ related subjects and even present own DJ show set-up to fellow DJs to swap ideas and seek ways of improving the presentation, rig set-up, health and safety issues, etc, etc, etc.

All great and conducted usually in a friendly atmosphere....etc, etc, etc

 

Whilst many members of the forum communities attend association meetings and hook up with those socially outside of the association environment, it has to be said that there are association members who are not online community members and have no intention of contributing. Some are happy to stay away, others are happy to register and access the forum as it suits. We do not turn them away!

 

But what the forum offers is clearly evident and members get from that what they put in. smile icon

Members of this forum can also set-up their own social meetings and establish their own local independent branch pretty much the same as an association branch. It need not have to be a subscription entity and can actually be very low cost.

Sure, we can offer and arrange group buys and in the past they were successful, and then some!

Yes, the sky is the limit, but lets not run away with the idea that DJU is the only entity out there with professional ideals. We all have a responsibility no matter who we are a member of to help shape and mould the direction of where we wish our profession to travel.

We are transparent and will happily answer questions if we possibly can. smile icon

 

What I would hope is that just as you would be expected to respect and follow the house rules of the association you visit or are invited to, the same common sense 'respect' is followed here and elsewhere in the virtual online communities.

[mikeee 0]

Paul, had a look around the other forums. I can say that on the 30th May 2007 a person for the Eastern region had tried to get DJ's together for a meet up and hadn't suceeded and asked if perhaps the NADJ could help and perhaps form a branch.

 

A second thread started under the NADJ area of the forum in July 2007 to get a meeting up and running. On this forum the thread started in October.

 

So my conculsion would have to be as an independent reader, that the NADJ were running it.

 

Now on a different forum one person appears to have got the hump over a misunderstanding and started rattling their cage, thus creating a moutain out of a mole hill.

 

Old Soul, no problem with your comments, I never take anything personel, and I only ever say what I see.

 

i just read this in the nadj's chairmans letter

quote

 

I will ensure that NADJ will work ever more closely with other DJ associations in

order to provide, wherever possible, a united National voice speaking out on issues

affecting DJs of all kinds in 21st century Britain and Europe.

unquote

 

make of it what you will.

 

Without speaking to Phil or the committee I don't really know what it means, but my take would be that the EU are about to chuck a load more regulations at us, and / or the NADJ has been contacted by european associations or what ever.

What I believe is safe to say is, NADJ are now getting recognised in the right place's, and as such will be asked to comment and the replies, the same as those from the MU, Equity, Bectu et al, will affect everyone working in the industry. Now, love or hate the NADJ, that is your personnel privalage, they are acting for all DJ's, and I would rather that happen than one of the other organisations talking for DJ's, or even not acknowledging their existance, because it would not benefit their members.

 

If I hadn't been involved with NADJ, and I was on the outside and didn't like what they were doing, or how they were doing it, whatever, I would join and take them on from the inside, and stand for the committee so that I could make the changes. It's pointless whinging unless you are going to do something positive to make a change happen, it will take a lot of your time, and a good chunk of cash out of your pocket running around to meetings, but then, this is how success and recognition starts. And this is my humble opinion.

 

nadj is currently looking into insurance: will this be part of the membership package? or will it cost more on top? if more on top why go through nadj? go to the m.u. or dj guard.

 

This I think I can answer. NADJ does have a policy, I know, I started it. It is based on and as close to the MU policy as possible. We haven't got the same deal because the MU broker would not entertain it without the best part of 20,000 members signed up, so I had to find a broker that could do the £10M policy with less than 1,000 members, initial, until we proved ourselves we could only have £5M, but the company were happy to go to £10M. We still have restrictions on the policy (I believe) but once the membership increases they will probably disappear. Why is it not part of the membership, because of choice, allowing the member to choose, rather than saying you have to have, but it appears that is wrong as well. As I said, there are restrictions on the policy, as with all the other policies, the sensible thing to do is read the small print on all of them, and go for the one that suits you. I personnal have found another policy which I think will suit me better if I stay in this industry.

 

one has a source of income from it's members and must be seen to be accountable and transparent with it's accounts. it MUST be able to offer paying members tangible benefits over and above a non fee paying union.

 

If you are a member, the accounts are available. Benefits come with more members - it's a chicken and egg situation.

 

now personally i have seen more postings and advice here at dju for free, the member list is larger and it seems the forum is more active.

 

All forums have lots of good posts, and bad ones, it depends on what information you want at that point in time. Which takes me back to forums being a fun and socialable place to be.

 

but my point is , pay your money and take your choice.

 

Absolutley, but if I needed help with a court case (or whatever, for whatever), I would look to a national body, rather than a "faceless" forum.

Ask Paul the question, as forum Admin, would you drop everything to support / help a DJU member in a court case in, say Brighton. The answer is probably NO, because it is a forum, it is a social meeting place, information passes and a great time is had by one and all. I think you get the idea of the point I'm trying to get over.

 

And I still haven't read the first post yet, anyway, time for bed - I hope

 

Interesting read rictic, but I must point out that as a forum, we are merely an online community whereas the association has branches and builds upon the goodwill of the paying member to help it grow so that they can form more branches to enable their ever-growing membership to seek discounts and benefits to pass on to their membership, strength through unity and size, etc, etc....seek identity, etc, etc sort of thing.

 

Unlike on an online community, association members can physically meet the fellow members at the branch meeting and naturally swap advice and marketing ideas to help improve local market, as well as view invited retailers to peruse wares and purchase at discount, discuss DJ related subjects and even present own DJ show set-up to fellow DJs to swap ideas and seek ways of improving the presentation, rig set-up, health and safety issues, etc, etc, etc.

All great and conducted usually in a friendly atmosphere....etc, etc, etc

 

Whilst many members of the forum communities attend association meetings and hook up with those socially outside of the association environment, it has to be said that there are association members who are not online community members and have no intention of contributing. Some are happy to stay away, others are happy to register and access the forum as it suits. We do not turn them away!

 

Thank you Dan