A Licence For Djs

[Paul Smith 0]

As per the question - (an 'opt out of any licence' is not provided for the purposes of this poll)

[EdBray 0]

Personally I would prefer a Full Annual DJ license which to be issued would need proof of PAT and PLI as well as proof of being registered with the taxman. This would allow you to transfer legally bought copies from one medium to another i.e. CD - MP3 or MP3 download - CD.

 

I would also require all Venue's entertainment license to be dependant on all their DJs to be in possession of a valid DJ license. And it being policed properly.

 

I would be willing to pay a reasonable sum annually if this was the case, in the region of £250 to £500.

 

Why?

 

Well in the first instance it will cut down on the number of unscrupulous and 'fly by night' DJs who give our industry a bad name.

It should generally increase the safety of Guests and Staff at venues.

It would allow the DJ who is serious about his craft/profession to increase his prices to fully cover his expenses and still make a decent profit, which in turn would allow him to offer a better service without having to scrimp and scrape to make ends meet.

 

[mikeee 0]

I choose option 2, only because I believe there should be a reasonable priced "DJ" license, when a fee per track copied on top.

Please remember this new license is NOT a DJ license, it is general to all people that play recorded music and that are likely to want to copy.

[spinner 0]

I choose option 2, only because I believe there should be a reasonable priced "DJ" license, when a fee per track copied on top.

 

 

If there should be a DJ licence, regardless of format ( if that's what you mean and apologies for the misunderstanding if you don't ) shouldn't there be a licence for comedians, dancers, magicians, bands etc?

Edited April 29, 2008 by spinner

[Danno13 0]

I think everyone would prefer the second option, but its not a proposal thats on the table, whereas the first one is.

 

However, couple the first with membership of a trade association that checks your PLI and PAT, then aren't we pretty close to the second anyway? Apart from the cost.

Edited April 29, 2008 by Danno13

[UKHero 0]

I think everyone would prefer the second option, but its not a proposal thats on the table, whereas the first one is.

 

However, couple the first with membership of a trade association that checks your PLI and PAT, then aren't we pretty close to the second anyway? Apart from the cost.

 

 

Is it on the table as a proposal though? Also why should we be forced to be a member of a trade association?

 

Nik

[Danno13 0]

Is it on the table as a proposal though?

 

Hardly the same though is it?

 

And I don't think anyone should be forced to join an association, but just think how much better it would be if every reputable, professional DJ did....

 

How much more clout would we have as an industry? How much easier it would be to convince clients/venues to use you and pay a realistic fee, rather than the guy with no PLI/PAT that might not even turn up?

Edited April 29, 2008 by Danno13

[Partyprint 0]

Am I right in saying if I buy the largest option licence the first year and convert all my cd's to mp3 within that year, then I legally download all my music from there on (itunes ect) I don't have to buy the digital licence again as I wont be changing the format of the music file? Doesn't seem that bad when you put it that way.

[Dukesy 0]

Hardly the same though is it?

 

And I don't think anyone should be forced to join an association, but just think how much better it would be if every reputable, professional DJ did....

 

 

That all depends on the philosophises, aims, goals and objectives of that association and whether you shared the same ideals.

 

Variety is the breath of fresh air and part of the freedom of choice and liberties.

This is why there are many political party's and religions with all different views and goals, and the one remaining value is the freedom of choice for those to read the manifesto of each individual entity and decide whether or not they wish to be part of or even associated with those objectives.

 

To force an individual to be part of something that they do not believe in goes against all human rights, to force people to have to pay to be a member of something that they have to be a member of by law is a travisty.

 

Imagine the chaos if we woke up one morning to find that during the night we had been all herded into one religion, and were forced to vote for only one political party just because Nanny knew what she thought was best for us.

[McCardle 1]

Personally I would prefer a Full Annual DJ license which to be issued would need proof of PAT and PLI

 

i think we are in danger here of fogging the whole point of these licences and using them as some sort of weapon to be wielded aginst putting our competition out of business. Many people seem to be brainwashed to the belief that legislation and pieces of paper somehow make you better at your job, and will quosh the undercharging element of a given industry like a bug. Sadly history proves otherwise. i remember the industrial days of the 70's and 80's, many people like the miners believed that the unions knew what was best for them and they flocked out and supported them in droves, what happened is now resigned to the history books and many kids today don't even know what a miner or a shipbuilder is.

 

How many of the companies who appear on programs like watchdog or rogue traders and involved in double glazing, building etc have public liability and trades insurance do you think?, probably most of them, certainly the larger ones. I've seen garages featured on these programs who are members of various trade associations, i've seen loft conversion companies who are members of the federation of master builders and i've seen travel agents who are members of ABTA, some of these are also examples of obligatory memberships too which are required in order to trade, but it hasn't stopped people from being let down or ripped off or suffering from the effects of poor workmanship has it. Can anybody please give me a trade industry example, of where professional memberships or indeed legislation introduction has stopped poor business attitudes and instilled 100% customer committment from every quarter?. I've been thinking on this for hours, but i'll be damned if i can find one.

 

It has always been at the discretion of the venue, whether or not they require and ask the deejay for pat and pli, and i don't see the introduction of a licence from a copyright organisation is going to change that, let the venues make up their minds whether pat or pli is required. In a similar way, the Inland Revenue has entire teams of investigators whose employment is based on tracking people down who evade tax and cheat on benefits - let them do their job and lets concentrate on ours!

 

I can imagine that when people buy a licence, it will because it is a legal requirement, and nothing to do with choice or being better at your job or earning more money, in just the same way as people are obligated to buy a tv licence, regardless of whether they watch the BBC or not.

 

Usually, the only winners from the introduction of legislation are the ones who are rolling out and controlling the legislation, and in most cases they become far richer, than those whom they are legislating.

Edited April 29, 2008 by McCardle

[spinner 0]

Am I right in saying if I buy the largest option licence the first year and convert all my cd's to mp3 within that year, then I legally download all my music from there on (itunes ect) I don't have to buy the digital licence again as I wont be changing the format of the music file? Doesn't seem that bad when you put it that way.

 

That's how it was presented.

 

 

Also why should we be forced to be a member of a trade association?

 

Nik

 

 

Where did you get that ( erroneous ) idea from?

[mikeee 0]

Right, the heading to this thread is, A License For DJ's. And there appears to be some confusion, which is why I went for option two . Some of you appear to be talking about the proposed "dubbing" license and others licensing DJ's which is entirely different. The proposed license is for copying, not performing, but we have been waiting for the last 12 years for the govenment to bring in the "Entertainers" license, which will be required for anyone and everyone that wants to perform in public, for the public or family party.

[Partyprint 0]

Can I recommend everyone to convert all their cd's to mp3 now whilst there's no licence available, then its all done for when the licence does eventually come out, then you just download music (no format shifting - no licence)

[UKHero 0]

Hardly the same though is it?

 

And I don't think anyone should be forced to join an association, but just think how much better it would be if every reputable, professional DJ did....

 

How much more clout would we have as an industry? How much easier it would be to convince clients/venues to use you and pay a realistic fee, rather than the guy with no PLI/PAT that might not even turn up?

 

well who gave the association you belong to the right to call itself national. And lets face it, its a minority organisation what % of all of the nations DJs are a member. What if I said hey i'm going to form the IADJ

 

International Association of DJs ?

 

I tried many times on this forum to get answers to the aims and ideals of your assoc and to find out what they had thus far achieved for DJs and I wanted to know what they could offer me if I joined. The answer I got then was Its not what the Association can do for me but what I can do for the Association.

 

Sorry not a good sales pitch is it. Try that when the next Bride to be calls and asks what you can do for her event.... Don't ring so good then does it..

 

Any ways this licence for many reasons is a bad idea the main one being it will push up costs of legit DJs and so make it even more lucrative for non legit DJs

 

Nik

 

Where did you get that ( erroneous ) idea from?

 

From one of Danno13s post above...

 

Nik

[Danno13 0]

I never even mentioned NADJ in my post, nor did I suggest that everyone should be a member of an association (whether that be NADJ, SEDA or whatever), as Spinner obviously noticed.

 

Yet again, you've managed to turn the thread to your anti-NADJ mission. You ask the same questions regarding NADJ time and time again, get your answers, and then go on to speculate, moan and just generally be negative and disagreeable and to be honest its getting pretty boring.

 

What are your aims and ideals? What have you acheived for DJs to date? What have you done besides sit on a forum and moan and criticise?

Edited April 29, 2008 by Danno13

[mikeee 0]

well who gave the association you belong to the right to call itself national

 

For somebody of such mature years, you really surprise me.

 

 

And lets face it, its a minority organisation what % of all of the nations DJs are a member

 

I just need to wipe the coffee off my keyboard and monitor.

 

What if I said hey i'm going to form the IADJ International Association of DJs ?

 

By all means, be my guest, but I think the americans already have that one.

 

I tried many times on this forum to get answers to the aims and ideals of your assoc and to find out what they had thus far achieved for DJs and I wanted to know what they could offer me if I joined. The answer I got then was Its not what the Association can do for me but what I can do for the Association.

 

But don't ALL trade bodies work the same way. Once they have been established for some time, then they can support the hangers on, but until then, well go figure.

 

Try that when the next Bride to be calls and asks what you can do for her event

 

Sorry!! Every bride that calls me, I ask what can I do for her wedding to make it special, and I have done for over 20 years. It's called being professional, staying ahead of the game and getting repeat business.

 

Any ways this licence for many reasons is a bad idea the main one being it will push up costs of legit DJs and so make it even more lucrative for non legit DJs

 

You don't really believe that do you?

 

 

Edited April 30, 2008 by Abuse Controller

[Dukesy 0]

To be fair, looking at both sides and all points, a period of 12 months or perhaps more have elapsed between the last detailed discussion regarding DJ based licensing (digital or general) so when a decision to rail-road through such a license with only two months worth of notice, then I suppose its only intrigue, curiosity and human nature for those to want to know how it is going to affect them (positively or negatively) to ask questions of those who have already advertised connection with the introduction and roll out.

 

Of course, the amount of questions are likely to be commeasurerant with the detail which has already been volunteered on the discussion. So when the details provided are scant, then expect those questions to be many, especially when rumour, gossip and scaremongering may indicate that it could perhaps have an adverse or negative effect on their livelihood.

[mikeee 0]

I think it is safe to say that any "license" / "law" / "Regulation" for any thing, anywhere, is always going to have winners and losers, the best that can ever be hoped for is the best possible compromise to help minimise the losers. I really can't see me going in the "hard drive" direction, but I would toy with the idea of copying CD to CD and reducing what I carry by 50% and also the originals would be safe at home, but CD to CD may not be included, so I would be the loser in this game, but in a year or two it may get revised, so I might be in with a chance.

 

 

[UKHero 0]

What are your aims and ideals? What have you acheived for DJs to date? What have you done besides sit on a forum and moan and criticise?

 

OK I will answer your questions online for all to see.

 

I have succesfully run a busness for over 26 years Have been to college and re-educated myself and expanded into other areas, other than DJing ie Sound engineering, Photography, Radio Production, and obtained an HGV class one licence.

 

As for other DJs I have taken on three roadies over the years and trained them so they can move on and become DJs now running there own shows. I have given help where I can on this and other forums. I have offered other DJs the use of my kit free of charge to help them out. I have visited other DJs homes to help them with there equipment when they have had technical troubles, I have gone from working in local pubs and WMCs to working in some of the biggest hotels in london for some of the big blue chip companies and I have networked with local DJs.

 

The above have instantly come to mind. I am sure if I sit and think about it I could be more indepth. And not once did I charge a fee for this. I offered my help and support but did not try to indoctorinate them to my way of thinking.

 

No doubt this post as with others of mine will be heavily edited and then fired back at me... Thats fine its all good debate...

 

There seems to me to be groups on this forum that want to push people one way or another be it dont use a domestic laptop the Dednod HDBC 345894 is the only way you can be a serious DJ or lets make it that all DJs join an organisation or they are not professional.

 

I am sorry if you feel I have degenerated yet another thread... But I am aloud to have my right of reply, and when the idea of becoming a member of an organisation SEDA which is down south or NADJ then I feel I am aloud to have my say in that I dissagre. If you dont want to have threads degenerate then please leave your membership ideals at the door to the forum.

 

As we know Duksey runs DJA and is an admin on here but he never pedals DJA on this forum as he feel it un ethical. I only respond to laptop comments when laptop DJs are put down. Note the quote at the bottom of my post. That was made by a member on this forum taken from an interview with, in his early days on this forum. I have it there as I find it ironic compared to his beliefs today....

 

So I hope you feel I have given you the good grace to answer your questions. Its a shame your association has never been able to do the same to mine.....

 

I ask again what has NADJ done for DJs on a national basis, how many DJs are there in the UK and what % are NADJ members.

 

What is the membership money spent on. Who has a vote on the direction of the organisation, and how is the commitee voted in or out... feel free to answer in a new thread if you think this one is not the place to reply..

 

To the others on this forum I am sorry to have taken this thread off topic but as above it is my right as it is yours to reply..

 

Nik

 

For somebody of such mature years, you really surprise me.

I just need to wipe the coffee off my keyboard and monitor.

By all means, be my guest, but I think the americans already have that one.

But don't ALL trade bodies work the same way. Once they have been established for some time, then they can support the hangers on, but until then, well go figure.

Sorry!! Every bride that calls me, I ask what can I do for her wedding to make it special, and I have done for over 20 years. It's called being professional, staying ahead of the game and getting repeat business.

You don't really believe that do you?

 

 

Thanks Mikeeeeee you have not answerd my questions just tried to belittle them... You must be a fully paid up member lol

 

Nik

[Gary 0]

 

. Its a shame your association has never been able to do the same to mine.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

All good (possibly) questions for an Annual General Meeting nik, rather than the middle of an unrelated thread... you've missed the NADJ AGM, which was fantastic, by 3 days. Better luck next year, or simply email your "concerns" to them, rather than hijacking yet another thread.

 

 

Edited April 30, 2008 by Gary

[Phil Cunnington 0]

Association (from dictionary.com)

 

'an organization of people with a common purpose and having a formal structure'

 

'alliance, union; society, company; band. 3. fellowship'

 

Please do not cast SEDA or NADJ as anything else than that seen above because they are not. They are both not for profit organisations.

 

Some people want to cast assocaitions as businesses looking for clients, that is ignorant rubbish, repeated for the sake of disparaging rather than debate (as pretended).

 

To get back to the thread

 

The licence that is currently on the table form MCPS/PRS & PPL is called the ProDub licence and is for exactly that - copying music.

 

The licence is applicable to all entertainers, fitness instructors, coach operators or anyone else who copies music for use in their profession.

 

One final thing - the cost is approx 2.5p per track. So you could always just download another copy of the tracks you need to duplicate at 59p or 79p and avoid the licence altogether.

Edited April 30, 2008 by Phil Cunnington

[Reverandfunk 0]

Ooohhhh isn't Gary in a good mood.

 

Anyone else you want to insult???

[UKHero 0]

you've missed the NADJ AGM, which was fantastic, by 3 days. Better luck next year, or simply email your "concerns" to them, rather than hijacking yet another thread.

 

Sorry some of us were doing the job rather than talking about it :dan+ju: But I take your point thank you

 

Nik

[Reverandfunk 0]

To be honest I have found this forum more of a help than any association, club, gang, whatever you want to call it.

 

If I want some advice I can come on here and ask like minded people what their opinions are and get a good response.

 

To me an association is a talking shop and personally I cannot see any tangible benefits for joining. I don't need extra work, I network already, I don't need trade discounts etc etc.

 

Its each to their own and if people want to pay and join let them but if some of us don't that doesn't make us any less professional or less of a DJ. I like DJ'ing but find the snobbery and elitism that exists quite sad. We all want to play music to people and just because I dont waste my money on pointless technology I don't need doesn't mean I am any less of a DJ

 

[McCardle 1]

Its each to their own

 

Exactly, so agree to disagree and just move on