A Licence For Djs

[UKHero 0]

To be honest I have found this forum more of a help than any association, club, gang, whatever you want to call it.

 

If I want some advice I can come on here and ask like minded people what their opinions are and get a good response.

 

To me an association is a talking shop and personally I cannot see any tangible benefits for joining. I don't need extra work, I network already, I don't need trade discounts etc etc.

 

Its each to their own and if people want to pay and join let them but if some of us don't that doesn't make us any less professional or less of a DJ. I like DJ'ing but find the snobbery and elitism that exists quite sad. We all want to play music to people and just because I dont waste my money on pointless technology I don't need doesn't mean I am any less of a DJ

 

Here here :Thumbup:

 

Exactly, so agree to disagree and just move on

 

But then there would be no need for a forum... There are to many sheep around this neck of the woods as it is....

 

Nik

[McCardle 1]

Yes, but i think discussions reach a stage where both sides of the fence have stated their case, several times over, and by then its obvious to the reader that neither is not going to move on their opinion.

 

There are to many sheep around this neck of the woods as it is....

 

And your point is?

Edited April 30, 2008 by McCardle

[Danno13 0]

To be honest I have found this forum more of a help than any association, club, gang, whatever you want to call it.

 

I'm not quite sure how you can compare membership of this forum to that of an association when you've never joined and participated in one. You don't even have to be a member to go along to the first few NADJ branch meetings, so there's no reason not to give it a try.

 

And yes, I think NADJ could offer free car, house, equipment and PLI for £50 and Nik still wouldn't want to join so it's pointless debating it. However, I'm sure there are many members on here, who would see the benefits which is why I still mention it on here and other forums and would appreciate not being criticised or run down when I do so.

Edited April 30, 2008 by Danno13

[Reverandfunk 0]

Danno I dont recall every running you down perhaps you can give me the specific example/s?

 

IMO (which is all it is) I dont see the point of going to branch meetings and whatever else goes on because I dont see the benefit.

 

How much is it to join these associations?

 

I said its each to their own and if you want to be in one fine but I don't. Each to their own.

[Danno13 0]

Danno I dont recall every running you down perhaps you can give me the specific example/s?

 

Sorry that bit was aimed at Nik.

 

IMO (which is all it is) I dont see the point of going to branch meetings and whatever else goes on because I dont see the benefit.

 

How much is it to join these associations?

 

I said its each to their own and if you want to be in one fine but I don't. Each to their own.

 

Thats fair enough, your choice, but a little closed-minded don't you think?

 

Membership is £50, plus £10 admin fee for the first year. You can quite easily save the cost of it with the discounts avaliable once you've got your free pro mobile subscription, bought a few CDs, taken advantage of the discounted PLI, equipment, car insurance, so the price shouldn't really be an issue to anyone, not that it should have been anyway at less than £1 a week!

 

[UKHero 0]

Yes, but i think discussions reach a stage where both sides of the fence have stated their case, several times over, and by then its obvious to the reader that neither is not going to move on their opinion.

 

Yes I agree with you on this...

 

[Steve_Mitchell 0]

Another hijacked topic... Why don`t you start a thread " What are the benifits of joining an association"?

 

 

Back to the license............

[Danno13 0]

Another hijacked topic... Why don`t you start a thread " What are the benifits of joining an association"?

 

There are a few dotted around the forum.

Edited April 30, 2008 by Danno13

[Reverandfunk 0]

LOL

 

This reiterates my point about the elitism and delusions of grandeur lol

 

I'm "close minded" because I choose not to pay £60 a year for something I don't see the point of lol.

 

I don't need cheap cd's, trade discounts, networking opportunities, meetings talking about waffle lol etc etc

 

Does me being a member of an association make me a better DJ?

 

No

 

The same as having a Denon whatsitcalled doesn't make me a better DJ

 

Too many people on here quick to pass judgement on others who don't have the same opinion.

 

Whats good for the goose isn't always good for the gander...

 

How many people on here are up their own behinds?

 

Ooohhhh another hijacked thread.

 

Whoopee doo its gone off topic, I cant believe that people on here have nothing better to do than moan about hijacked threads and make accusations about identities.

 

You all really need to get out more.

 

Dukesy you can deactivate my account

[Danno13 0]

And yet again my words have been twisted...

 

I didn't say you were closed minded because you weren't a member, I said it because you categorically stated that you didn't want to go along to a meeting to see what its about and have written off the association straight away.

Edited April 30, 2008 by Danno13

[UKHero 0]

And yes, I think NADJ could offer free car, house, equipment and PLI for £50 and Nik still wouldn't want to join so it's pointless debating it. However, I'm sure there are many members on here, who would see the benefits which is why I still mention it on here and other forums and would appreciate not being criticised or run down when I do so.

 

Wow all that for £50 im in where do i sign....

 

 

 

Oh hold on thats IF they offered it and urmmm they dont do they. Infact they offer nothing other than the odd pow wow where people can talk about the job. I can and have done this for free, dont need an organisation to get together and network with DJs I have done it via DJU, for free.

 

I refer you to a reply from one of your members..

 

"You should not be asking what the assosiation can do for you but what you can do for it". As I said in another post on this very boring roundabout topic that you keep bringing up, if a bride to be called and said what can you provide for my wedding and you used the above quote you would not get many bookings, so not a good sales pitch from NADJ so far. If I join the AA they tell me the benefits of membership they lay them out i break down man comes fixes car or tows to garage or home etc etc.

 

I am a member of BECTU and I can see the benefits that organisation brings me. I have used some of the benefits. I can not see the benefit of the NADJ... When I can then maybe I will join. But the thing that got me on this topic was you saying about being a member of an assosiation to be able to be a Pro DJ...

 

Sorry not signing up to that one buddy...

 

Nik

 

And yet again my words have been twisted...

 

Ha ha join the club you come to expect it after a while tongue out icon

 

Nik

[Danno13 0]

I wish you'd read my posts properly.. show me where I said ".. was you saying about being a member of an assosiation to be able to be a Pro DJ..."???

 

What I actually said was that instead of a DJ license, if you're a member of a trade association like NADJ and SEDA, then this at least validates your PLI and PAT and is something you can use as a badge of being a professional, that doesn't mean that you can't be one without the membership.

 

Oh hold on thats IF they offered it and urmmm they dont do they. Infact they offer nothing other than the odd pow wow where people can talk about the job. I can and have done this for free, dont need an organisation to get together and network with DJs I have done it via DJU, for free.

 

First of all, you ask any member of the South Wales branch if they could acheive what they have with their businesses as a result of branch meetings, by just visiting forums (which most DJs in the country don't visit anyway). Refering to branch meetings as "the odd pow wow" just shows your ignorance and a determination to write off the association when you clearly know nothing about it and how it has helped all of its members in some way.

 

If your looking for tangible benefits, then how about the 10mil PLI for £100, the cheap equipment, car, home and travel insurance.

 

How about 10% off all DMC back catalogue, 25% of AA (10% on renewal), 15% off at Moss Bros, 25% of BUPA health insurance, pre-discounted CDs, DVDs and Games from CD-Wow.

 

And these are growing all the time, thanks to those people who give their time for free to run the association, and of course the bargaining power due to the ever increasing membership.

Edited April 30, 2008 by Danno13

[UKHero 0]

Any ways back on topic.. This here licence will be £500 for each year you swap format ie buy a CD rip to your HDC or laptop. Or DL mps and copy to your HDC or laptop..

 

So year 1 pay £500 rip everything you can to your choosen format upto 20,000 tracks...

 

From then on only buy in the format you will use HDC and laptop DJ MP3 CD DJ vinal etc etc...

 

As so many DJs are now digital the record industry will surely take a big hit here.

 

Year 2 I only DL my music at 79ppt (Pence Per Track) so dont need a licence tracks purchased and DL right onto my Disco HD or HDC so no cross format or new copies made... Now I liked to buy a CD at say £13.99 but only wanted two tracks off it so now I buy the 79PPT from napster so costing £1.58 a saving to me of £12.41 a loss to the record industry tax man etc of £12.41 Now times that over by the amount of CDs sold to the amount of DJs who will now do this and I bet it runs into a few million.

 

even if say I buy 50 Cds in a year at £13.99 thats £699.50 but if I now go the other route and you have to look at pricings and get the best deal it makes business sence to do so I buy say on average 3 track per CD then thats £118.50 over the same year saving me £581 each year so I am saving more than the DJ who buys the licence then buys the CD's for every DJ that buys only the downloads they need as per my example the industry needs more than 1 DJ to buy the licence just to stand still. And dont forget the added burocracy will cost quite a bit also... This is why I feel the licence is doomed to fail.

 

Yes there will be a few busts and some press coverage when it first comes out but I think you will have more chance of winning the lotterey than being done for not having a licnece...

 

Just my thoughts

 

Nik

[Danno13 0]

That same argument of CDs vs Downloads applies now though... I don't see how the license makes it anymore relevant.

 

Even with the extra 2.5p per track for the right to copy/rip the CD it can still work out more economical to buy the CD, rather than download it, plus there's the advantage of full CD/WAV quality. I wouldn't buy a CD now that I only wanted 2 to 3 tracks from. I'd only buy it in CD form if there were enough tracks that I needed to make it a worthwhile expense.

[mikeee 0]

License fees are there to ensure that the Composers, Producers, Artistes and then the record companies get there pennies.

[TonyB 0]

I think I will wait until the the press release before making a final judgment. I can see both sides of the argument and we can only speculate about how effective it will be.

 

Just as a thought though, how may vinyl DJ's went out and bought CD versions of the same tracks they had on vinyl?

 

Did you think the music industry was ripping you off when CD's were introduced and you went and bought a CD version of something you already had?

 

Did you object to paying twice for the same track?

 

or did you have the choice of continuing to use to vinyl or paying to change to CD's?

 

and is the choice now not similar - either use CD's and pay nothing or move to a different technology and pay the fee for upgrading?

 

Don't you pay a fee of some type whenever you upgrade? buy a LCD TV or monitor to replace the CRT costs money. Upgrade your car cost's money. Upgrade your computer O/S costs money. They all do the same thing as the older version but in different ways and no one forces you to upgrade.

 

I do understand the argument that you have bought the CD and should be allowed to do what you want with it but the same applies to having bought a track on vinyl and then buying a CD version, you are paying twice for the same thing.

 

The only difference now is that modern technology makes it easier to break the law and because it is so easy ,"everyone" does it so it doesn't seem that it is illegal.

 

The Government is presently reviewing Copyright Law to bring it more into line with the digital age and the end result could well be that it is legal for all to buy one CD and change format to whatever you want. But the music industry would have to assess what impact it will have and we could end up paying more per track to compensate and give us the right to do it.

 

Until the law is reviewed, we are stuck with the way it is and have the choice of either doing the right thing to be legal or operate illegally and take the consequences if you get caught.

[dh140770 0]

License fees are there to ensure that the Composers, Producers, Artistes and then the record companies get there pennies.

 

They do. When I buy the CD or download the MP3 from Itunes.

 

The proposed license is payment for convenience. If I buy a track, if I play it at home, in the car, on my ipod or to a crowd, I have paid for it, and the Artist etc has been paid. I am using that track once, at that moment in time, regardless of the format, there is only one of me and I can only play it once.

 

I am not copying the track and distributing it, selling it at Car Boot Sales, or anything else.

 

This is why I am in favour of a license that should hopefully ensure DJ's operate to a certain quality level.

[McCardle 1]

License fees are there to ensure that the Composers, Producers, Artistes and then the record companies get there pennies

 

yeah, all of that rehab for some of those artistes musn't come cheap

[Partyprint 0]

License fees are there to ensure that the Composers, Producers, Artistes and then the record companies get there pennies.

 

It's been said on here before and it was brought up at the meeting, We play the songs to the public, the public listen, possibly like and therfore go out and buy it! We shouldn't have to pay to help the artists sell their records :lame:

[TonyB 0]

When you purchase a product that has terms and conditions attached to it, you do so agreeing to abide by those terms and conditions.

 

A CD clearly states "Unauthorised copying of this work prohibited". So by buying the CD you agree to not copy it or if you do, you need to get authorisation. If you don't agree, don't buy it.

 

Its much the same as when you supply a disco and you provide the client with terms and conditions. If they agree to book you, they do so in agreement with your terms and conditions.

 

If you have a condition that says "the client shall pay the full fee if canceled within 30 days before the event" and they cancel the week before, would you not expect them to pay the full fee? If they didn't would you not be within your rights to take them to court to get payment?

 

The PRS-MCPS license will give you the option of authorisation to copy if you want it.

 

Please don't get the impression that I am in support of having to fork out yet more money to carry on in business. I was perfectly happy with the way things were/are at the moment. £250 would buy a new light or two or pay for a weekend away. I would rather spend it on myself but we are stuffed by the legality of it all.

Edited April 30, 2008 by TonyB

[UKHero 0]

I wish you'd read my posts properly.. show me where I said ".. was you saying about being a member of an assosiation to be able to be a Pro DJ..."???

 

What I actually said was that instead of a DJ license, if you're a member of a trade association like NADJ and SEDA, then this at least validates your PLI and PAT and is something you can use as a badge of being a professional, that doesn't mean that you can't be one without the membership.

 

 

If your looking for tangible benefits, then how about the 10mil PLI for £100, the cheap equipment, car, home and travel insurance.

 

How about 10% off all DMC back catalogue, 25% of AA (10% on renewal), 15% off at Moss Bros, 25% of BUPA health insurance, pre-discounted CDs, DVDs and Games from CD-Wow.

 

And these are growing all the time, thanks to those people who give their time for free to run the association, and of course the bargaining power due to the ever increasing membership.

 

 

First point you may not of said it word for word but from your repeated line above you infered it. Sorry if you feel I miss quoted you...

 

Second point

 

At last you have given some tangeable reasons to join. Why did you not just mention the benefits before. I am sorry but the NADJ does feel like a closed shop to outsiders sometimes and you feel like you need to have your trouser leg rolled up when at a meeting (this is tongue in cheek BTW)

 

So thanks Danny boy for the info.. Keep it up I might just join... Now you would not want that would you lol

 

Nik

[Phil Cunnington 0]

First point you may not of said it word for word but from your repeated line above you infered it. Sorry if you feel I miss quoted you...

 

Second point

 

At last you have given some tangeable reasons to join. Why did you not just mention the benefits before. I am sorry but the NADJ does feel like a closed shop to outsiders sometimes and you feel like you need to have your trouser leg rolled up when at a meeting (this is tongue in cheek BTW)

 

So thanks Danny boy for the info.. Keep it up I might just join... Now you would not want that would you lol

 

Nik

To be fair to Danno, Nik, we are making a concerted effort not to 'market' NADJ on this forum as it is something the members have complained about in the past. All of that information is on the NADJ web site, though.

 

I have today also posted details of a new initiative, the NADJ Youth Development Program, and the introduction of two one-year-long DJ Scholarships as a part of that. Dan is one of the Youth Development Team members and will be taking an active part in it.

 

I will ensure we work even harder this year to make membership even more unavoidable for you! smile icon

Edited April 30, 2008 by Phil Cunnington

[UKHero 0]

 

I will ensure we work even harder this year to make membership even more unavoidable for you! smile icon

 

tongue out icon I like your style Phil

 

Nik

 

[Gary 0]

I wonder how voting would have gone if the prices had been reversed in the two psuedo options.

[andyw 0]

I wonder how voting would have gone if the prices had been reversed in the two psuedo options.

only one way to find out,set up another poll gary