Budget Active Speakers

[Llyr Roberts 0]

I'm willing to spend 100-250 per speaker, hopefully they would be 300W - 400W rms.

 

I was going to buy" the box 15inchers" but after asking someone I know he said he had seen many of them being blown, Most of the budget active speakers are the same and come from the same place

 

Many people think there is a huge gap in quality and reliability between, The Box, Skytec, Fortisimo, Class D, RCL Pro Audio

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...%3DOp1%26ps%3D5

 

Compered to, Db, Jbl, Mackie, FBT, OHM,

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1-x-Mackie-SRM-450-p...p3286.m14.l1318

 

I have the option of buying either the new cheap ones or second hand good brands but if i where to but one of the good brands there's no way of telling how hard they been used,

 

Any thoughts or recommendations?

 

Thanks Llyr

Edited July 9, 2008 by Llyr Roberts

[McCardle 1]

No offense intended but i must admit that i am frequently surprised at the use of the word 'budget' when it comes to people's sound systems!. Are our speakers and P.A not our tools of the trade, and is our sound quality not our first and lasting impression? and amongst the deciding factors as to why people will book us in the future?. I understand, and fully subscribe to the fact that most of us do not need huge sound systems or ones running into £1000's, but surely scrimping too much on one of our main selling points is perhaps a little false economy and will turn around and bite us on the ass in both equipment reliability and P.R?

 

Even if you cannot afford or justify top end and big names (many of us can't), wouldn't it be better to save for a little bit longer, spend a little more time to research your options and then plump for something 'mid priced' rather than out and out 'budget'?. I personally put decent sound quality, before lighting effects, and even if it meant going for the next 3 years without buying a lighting effect or a new smoke machine, then a decent set of speakers and PA would be the first priority before squandering money on cosmetics and pretty lights, which probably wouldn't be noticed, compared to sound quality which is noticed.

 

Your sound is your business, it is your first impression and if your music sounds crap and tinny and your speakers make your banter and mic work unintelligable and like the bloke at the fair on the Dodgems, then you wont make a good first impression and probably will gain no additional work will you?, and how much money will your 'budget' speakers have lost you??. Surely its better to put another £400 in the speaker buying kitty, than to lose £1000's in work because you took the cheap cop out?

 

I was going to buy" the box 15inchers" but after asking someone I know he said he had seen many of them being blown

 

All speakers will die after being flogged within an inch of their lives for long periods. This is exactly why you need to choose a speaker with a power output suitable for the venues you do on a regular basis, and 'cruise' them at medium power levels rather than 'redline' and thrash the crap out of them for 4 hours per night. I once read a post on here which stuck with me - would you drive your car in third gear down the motorway at 6000rpm or would you sit with it in 5th at 2500rpm? . Using & choosing speakers is exactly the same, and they will sound better running at medium power levels rather than constantly pushing them to their design limits just to be heard!.

 

So if you need 300W of volume per speaker to fill a room comfortably, then choose an active speaker with a 500W+ output, this way you'll only be running the 500W speaker at about 65% of its design limit to achieve the desired volume. However if you chose a cheap 300W speaker, then you'll be running it at 100% of its rated power to get the same output and no doubt the sound would be beginning to distort and any quality would be lost, not to mention the stress on its internal components possibly meaning a shorter working life. All false economy.

 

Other factors other than wattage also apply to choosing a speaker. The SPL rating for example, and a 400W speaker with an SPL of 121db will sound much louder (and probably overall better quality) than a 400W speaker with an SPL of 96db. Ideally even for budget speakers you need to be looking for an SPL of at least 100db. Think of wattage as the brawn of a speaker, and SPL as the brains!.

 

So personally, and it is only my opinion. I would be looking at spending at least £500 - £900 on a decent pair of active speakers, even if it meant leaving not rushing into making a purchase and leaving it a while longer in order to save up for them or even consider buying second hand / ex demo.

Edited July 9, 2008 by McCardle

[dh140770 0]

Mccardle. I think you said it all really apart from we don't know how much use the speakers are going to get. If you are working every week or several times a week it would be more sensible IMO to spend more, but if like me you only do 20 gigs a year max, and deliberately keep it that way, then good budget is a possible route.

 

That said I bought Mackies because of the recommendations of reliability and the good resale value of used units.

[TonyB 0]

Llyr, I wonder if your friend has any stats to back up his comment? The speakers I read most about as having problems are Mackies. It may be because they are one of the most popular active speakers and proportionately there are bound to be more failures.

 

I know of someone who owns a hire shop and he uses Soundlab 15" active speakers to hire out. They get used and abused being hire stock but he uses them because they rarely fail.

 

At the end of the day, any speaker can fail irrespective of whether it is budget or not if it is abused by the owner. As McCardle says, if you push the speakers every time you use them so that they are maxed out, then it will most probably shorten their life.

 

Most people have their own idea of what is the best speaker for them but if I was going to buy a pair of active speakers with your budget then I would get Warrior Audio PSR 15 Active Speakers. They are 400w with a max SPL of 128.5dB and cost under £500 for a pair. In my opinion, they sound nice too, good bottom end (bass) and the high frequencies aren't as harsh as some other speakers.

 

 

[Bolan-Boogie 0]

Agree with Tony, High failure rate with Mackie's, and owned a pair of powered soundlab's previously and were fantastic.

Even these sound good

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...=tab%3DWatching

 

A copy of the JBL series.

[superstardeejay 0]

There's certainly no contest from my engineer's twopen'orth. High end ones! So long as they're ok when you buy them, you should be ok.

 

I know there's a big camp of people who buy cheap and then just chuck them when they blow, however bear in mind they usually blow mid-gig and that can be embarrassing.

 

The quality makes usually benefit from a long pedigree of development and field testing (product development?) whereby continual failure would soon ruin a long-established brand.

 

Many cheap speakers we get in the workshop are relatively new (ie failed just out of warranty) and usually fail due to problems that were ironed-out in more expensive speakers, long ago.

 

If a cheap brand gets a poor reputation, the brand is ditched and 'rebranded' and the cycle starts again. I can think of a few chinese branded products that have been re-issued under new names even in my short but glorious lifetime.

 

There are very few far-east budget powered speakers that have been around for years that I know of, most have fallen by the wayside.

 

Maybe a poll to see who has the oldest working powered speakers and what brand they are?!!!?

Edited July 9, 2008 by superstardeejay

[Llyr Roberts 0]

Agree with Tony, High failure rate with Mackie's, and owned a pair of powered soundlab's previously and were fantastic.

Even these sound good

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...=tab%3DWatching

 

A copy of the JBL series.

 

 

I nearly bought these! But they have no balanced input so the sound if full of interference.

 

 

[Robster 0]

I nearly bought these! But they have no balanced input so the sound if full of interference.

 

 

This is generally true BUT many audiophile high end Hi Fi separates for example do not have balanced connections (many do though) and the sound is certainly not "full of interference".

 

I suppose a cheap badly designed poor quality balanced connection can be worse sound quality than a high quality well built well designed unbalanced connection , interference is only one thing that can affect the overall sound quality from my limited experience..maybe i am wrong

 

 

[TonyB 0]

Main difference is the length of the cables. Hi-Fi systems don't usually have 10m or 20m connecting the items together. The longer the cable, the more chance there is of picking up interference (a bit like an aerial). Using phono's you may be lucky and get away with it but then again you may not, depending on what electrical interference is near the cable.

 

Balance cables get the same interference on the + and - sides so it cancels out

[dh140770 0]

This is generally true BUT many audiophile high end Hi Fi separates for example do not have balanced connections (many do though) and the sound is certainly not "full of interference".

 

I suppose a cheap badly designed poor quality balanced connection can be worse sound quality than a high quality well built well designed unbalanced connection , interference is only one thing that can affect the overall sound quality from my limited experience..maybe i am wrong

 

No expert here, but we are talking a less controlled environment with more danger of interferance from smoke machines, lights etc, plus many times the volume levels in terms of sheer wattage ?

 

That said, my old setup (many moons ago) only had jack plugs connecting the mixer and the amp and we never suffered interference

 

[Robster 0]

No expert here, but we are talking a less controlled environment with more danger of interference from smoke machines, lights etc, plus many times the volume levels in terms of sheer wattage ?

 

That said, my old setup (many moons ago) only had jack plugs connecting the mixer and the amp and we never suffered interference

 

That is interesting i have never heard interference that was due to using non balanced cables on an active system i must admit 10 m is the limit of the leads i have used..I use a passive speaker system now so its not an issue. (I do use balanced Mic leads)

 

How many people have actually heard interference on non balanced leads on active speaker systems?

[superstardeejay 0]

It really isn't common for interference at line levels (more a problem with mic levels) and in any case the most popular Mackies, the SRM450 are balanced inputs anyway..and the Mackie's arent actually unreliable considering how many are out there. We rarely see them, and if so it's usually something daft like a fuse fallen out. The SRM450 and matching bins are extremely well made... 10 times better than anything chinese..and actually have real output transistors rather than the car-radio-style IC's that most chinese powered speakers use. And they're loud..and nice sounding..and versatile (will accept mic and line on the same socket).

 

A few people have mentioned how hot they run..well we soak test them flat out just under clipping for a full half day and they rarely even get lukewarm. If yours are getting red hot...youve got a major problem and are probably overdriving them greatly.

 

 

[McCardle 1]

Well it looks like the goddess of fortune is smiling on you Llyr

 

http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=21219

 

http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=21218

 

Two systems from 'known' names and both within your budget. Personally, i'd go for the Alto's as they have a good rep (search the forum for comments from owners) but its your decision.

[norty303 0]

One other thing to throw into the pot...

 

If you are concerned about amount of use that you're going to get out of them, and your return on investment then THE best route to go is with big name brand (Turbosound, Martin, EV, etc see my post about JBL on your other thread ;) ) 2nd hand kit, be it ex install, ex touring or whatever. Buying from a big touring company means it will have been well used but also well taken care of with a known history and some honest description of its condition.

 

A lot of the old Turbosound TMS range have not really fallen in 2nd hand prices for the last few years and you have the added bonus that when you want to sell on you have a much larger market (live music venues, one man band PA companies, mobile jocks, etc) to sell to than just other people in the disco market.

 

 

[Llyr Roberts 0]

One other thing to throw into the pot...

 

If you are concerned about amount of use that you're going to get out of them, and your return on investment then THE best route to go is with big name brand (Turbosound, Martin, EV, etc see my post about JBL on your other thread ;) ) 2nd hand kit, be it ex install, ex touring or whatever. Buying from a big touring company means it will have been well used but also well taken care of with a known history and some honest description of its condition.

 

A lot of the old Turbosound TMS range have not really fallen in 2nd hand prices for the last few years and you have the added bonus that when you want to sell on you have a much larger market (live music venues, one man band PA companies, mobile jocks, etc) to sell to than just other people in the disco market.

 

Good point,

Big brands don't lose (as much) value when selling second hand,

 

second hand JBL's for 300, will sell for a lot more than new TheBox or Skytec 300 speakers been sold after a couple of months. Hope you know what I mean, It's better to buy big brands second hand because they won't drop in price as much as unknown brands being sold.

[norty303 0]

But make sure that you are buying the 'good' stuff of the known brand, because you are likely to be selling to a knowledgable market. The point I was making in your other thread about the JBL's was that if they are one of the 'bad' models then you will struggle to move them on as everyone will know that they are dogs.

[Dave80s 0]

How can you overdrive powered speakers? Are they not designed to run at optimum range?

[superstardeejay 0]

Some are and some aren't. Most have a degree of limiting in there which works usually, however if you run anything flat out for extended periods then they're still probably not going to last long.

 

And remember that cheap powered speakers often vibrate themselves apart (internally) often for no other reason than they don't have enough 'substance' in the cabinets so they resonate more.