The Pro Dub Is Two Weeks Old

[UKHero 0]

Just interested to see what sort of reaction we get to how many people have gone and paid out there £250 for this licence, I know one on here who has, (but he pretends not to read my posts so he wont vote on this lol) but I am sure there are a few more, But would be interested to see the % who have, to who have not...

 

Polls are 100% secret so be honest... This will be a good indication of how the licence sales are doing and how much our beloved MCPS is racking in lol....

 

Nik

[andyw 0]

we have not got it yet,just waiting for jamie to get the rest of the money together then he will buy it,he got 2 gigs this week so money should be available soon.he wants it this year to convert all his cd's but we don't know where or what is best for the future. he starts his apprenticeship the end of august so he will be better off then (hopefully)

Edited July 15, 2008 by andyw

[Dream Catchers 0]

Come on Nik, own up. You are the one that has bought it :bouncy:

I've started taking my CDs out with me again :hurt:

 

 

Jim

[Andy Westcott 0]

I'm sticking with CDs.

I had previously contemplated doing the other, but won't now.

 

That's a lot of money to not have to carry a few boxes about, especially as my roadie does that anyhow...

 

In summary, very poor value.

Oh - Nik, I didn't vote as being a CD user I thought it might skew the results.

[Gary (GDK) 0]

well im gonna buy it to cover my back. But the "buy now" button aint working at the moment.

[Cornish Traktor 0]

I've got mine, it was number 55. Maybe I'm the only one in Cornwall ? all my tracks are on my Mac. I have been asked once in the past if my songs are legal and I just said yes and got away with it. I don't want to be the DJ who ruined a local wedding. I would never get any work around here again. After-all its only about 3 or 4 hours work to cover the cost. worth it or not, it's just one of those things we have to take into account when setting our price.

[Dukesy 0]

I've got mine, it was number 55. Maybe I'm the only one in Cornwall ?

 

The 'failed' PPL licence apparently only had around 800+ sales in the UK....and its still apparently for sale!

Of course, it will take time for the information to get round...

The MCPS Business Development Director informed me that they are placing info in the industry magazines over the next few weeks and the MCPS Marketing Manager is attending DJ Show North to answer any queries. smile icon

[McCardle 1]

there is a perfectly legal way of avoiding this licence and the need for it, and that is to just keep using cds. it isn't like the additional monies raised are going to fund worthy causes, its going to the music industry and i don't think that is needy in any way, shape or form, we already pay far more for exactly the same music on the same labels than our American cousins whether its in the form of cd or legal downloads. I was considering the use of one of the cheaper hardware based products, even if it was just for back up purposes, but now I don't think i'll bother, i'll just put the £250 towards to some decent flightcases and a holiday in somewhere warm. Yes, it will mean more inconvenience but i managed this way for over 10 years, and to be honest i can see out another 10, i really don't have the time to not only convert the music (a minefield if some of the related posts are anything to go by) but also to itemise and list it track-by-track either. Deejays have managed without fancy gadgets for the last five decades.

 

if anything it has made me examine the need to carry so many cds around with me, and it is possible to go out with just a couple of flightcases and cd wallets and still have music to spare, i'm also spending much less on impulse purchases and examining each potential new track on its merits, and whether i really need it and whether it will be asked for, so far i've been asked for nothing which i haven't already got, although i cover mainly weddings and older age groups.

Edited July 16, 2008 by McCardle

[jukeboxdj 0]

I looked over the terms and conditions for the licence and came across this statement

 

9.7 This Licence shall be governed by English law and we and you agree to

submit to the exclusive jurisdiction of the English Courts.

 

So here is my problem i live in scotland and we have different laws so i dont know if i will be covered

and also if you are based in england will you be covered if you cross the border? :shrug:

 

so until i have this point clarified i will not be parting with my money after all you wouldnt buy a tv licence if you couldnt get a tv reception would you?

[NRG Roadshow 0]

MCPS Marketing Manager is attending DJ Show North

 

Brave Man/Woman........stab vest and a bigger security enterage than 50 cent on standby I should think LOL

[Wayno 0]

Its alright, they will probably just drag soem random in off the street, I mean by all accounts their last rep at the NADJ AGM was just as clueless!

[UKHero 0]

55 sales to date out of how many DJs nation wide.... Dan I think you had there figures for how many DJs they recon work in the UK... And if the PPL Licence only sold 800 well its not looking good is it...

 

It is interesting they are saying you and we agree to abide by english law... This makes me think maybe under European Law there is something not quite legal about this... We are after all Europeans (Lets use it to our advantage for once) We are entitled to be heard in a european court of law... The UK Government has spent more time in the European Courts of Justice more than any other Government..

 

I wonder if there might be a human rights issue here, trying to get you to sign your rights away?

 

It seems people who buy this licence are signing away some key rights by purchasing this licence, Boy the LWP screwed up this big time by not consulting the legal bods....

 

 

Nik

[davemoody 0]

When are we going to wake up in this country.....We are continually being ripped off.....Another licence that has been made up just to make an easy profit out of us hard working DJ's.

 

Enough is enough. The more people that decide to buy, the more it is seen as being fair and just when it isn't.

 

It was on the news yet again the other day how the record industry is losing money again. How many remember when CD's first came out and they said how cheap they were to produce that the public would be able to but cheap albums. What a load of rubbish. We pay more than enough for CD's in this country to cover the sosts of legal transfers to our laptops.

 

Just my opinion but all those who purchase the licence must be mad!!!

[Gary 0]

at least now that the pro dub licence is available anyone who rips music as part of their profession now has a method of finally doing that legitimately, and by the rules.

 

I welcomed the licence as I feel that things have been "legally grey" in the respect of ripping cd's, vinyls, minidiscs, tapes etc since, well since the Record button got invented.

 

there's a 25% discount on the Pro-dub license up until the 2nd week of August. That 25% discount could mean over £100 savings off the normal licence fee - and remember, it's only a one-off fee for the tracks you transfer, as the license covers you for the format shift of tracks and you won't normally be format shifting the same tracks more than once.

[UKHero 0]

at least now that the pro dub licence is available anyone who rips music as part of their profession now has a method of finally doing that legitimately, and by the rules.

 

I welcomed the licence as I feel that things have been "legally grey" in the respect of ripping cd's, vinyls, minidiscs, tapes etc since, well since the Record button got invented.

 

there's a 25% discount on the Pro-dub license up until the 2nd week of August. That 25% discount could mean over £100 savings off the normal licence fee - and remember, it's only a one-off fee for the tracks you transfer, as the license covers you for the format shift of tracks and you won't normally be format shifting the same tracks more than once.

 

Yes so you keep telling us YAWN

 

 

Nik

[Cornish Traktor 0]

As I said I've got mine, but it'll be a one time only purchase (with discount) it covers all the tracks that I've taken off CD and put on my Mac, I legally download all my music now, about 500 tracks this year. This is better than CD's I choose just the track's that I need.

 

Plus I can download any track to the iPhone whilst I'm playing and drop them into the set at any time.

 

Any request No Problem I've got about 10 million tracks to choose from.

[Dukesy 0]

at least now that the pro dub licence is available anyone who rips music as part of their profession now has a method of finally doing that legitimately, and by the rules.

 

I welcomed the licence as I feel that things have been "legally grey" in the respect of ripping cd's, vinyls, minidiscs, tapes etc since, well since the Record button got invented.

 

there's a 25% discount on the Pro-dub license up until the 2nd week of August. That 25% discount could mean over £100 savings off the normal licence fee - and remember, it's only a one-off fee for the tracks you transfer, as the license covers you for the format shift of tracks and you won't normally be format shifting the same tracks more than once.

 

Which is all very well Gazza but (sorry interrupts....having a Déjà vu moment) there are elements of the licence which DJs have identified as questionable and do not have answers too.

 

With only 17 days and a number of hours passed since launch, would it be really wise to buy something without knowing all the facts given history and common sense?

 

Remember the road before with the Digital DJ Licence? Lets not jump the gun and make the same premature mistakes all over again by encouraging people to buy something just because it is for sale! Be careful what you wish for

 

Logically, just because someone may have the capacity to introduce what amounts to an 'invention' (in this case under the convoluted range of copyright) does not make it automatically fit for purpose. This was proven with another licence not so long ago!

 

You your self and a few others (in the short space of time since the initial news was released leading up to the 1st July 'launch') contacted the MCPS with questions.

I believe you received satisfactory answers to your questions.

 

Being fair, there are other DJs who do not have their answers but like I said, only 17 days and a number of hours passed! Maybe those who attend the DJ Show North will get their questions answered?

 

Didn't Paul Arnett once contact Numark and the PCDJ chap Shaun Minn about the former PPL licence? What are the views of such companies now towards the new licence?

Out of interest, what is the official stance of Denon?

 

The MCPS have joined the forum but have so far declined to introduce themselves / participate in threads.

It's early days of coursel and maybe they are just busy at the moment, but I still think it would be a great help if they could at least answer and address remaining concerns of our forum members before the DJ Show North event.

 

They have requested licence information and links to be placed on the DJ Associates web site to their site.

I have replied and suggested reciprocal links would be better served in the interests of search engine optimisation and goodwill. After all, both organisations are non-profit. smile icon

 

I legally download all my music now, about 500 tracks this year.

Plus I can download any track to the iPhone whilst I'm playing and drop them into the set at any time

 

LOL!

[Gary 0]

 

 

there are elements of the licence which DJs have identified as questionable and do not have answers too.

//

You your self and a few others (in the short space of time since the initial news was released leading up to the 1st July 'launch') contacted the MCPS with questions.

I believe you received satisfactory answers to your questions.

 

//

Being fair, there are other DJs who do not have their answers

 

//

 

 

 

 

 

Dan, I would agree that there are some members with valid questions, which once answered will enable that person (in nearly all cases) to move from "Pause" and onto the next step which may well be "Buy the license" either to cover themselves for the tunes which they are about to rip, or retrospectively cover themselves for a hard drive full of their CDs which they may have ripped years ago - it's my understand that MCPS-PRS ("Produb") will apply a certain common-sense Amnesty over already ripped xx,xxx tracks, as long as the appropriately sized ProDub license is purchased.

 

 

 

However, I also see/hear/read some comments which are simply false objections, deliberate stalling tactics, reason after rant, and rant after mythical loophole revelation - anything at all to distance themselves and their hard drives of home rips from the license - why? well, some seem to ask (eventually) "we've been ripping stuff and playing it out for years now, why start paying to transfer it now?" - some will simply ask the same questions repeatedly, get given the correct answers over and over and over again but will have their e-fingers, in their e-ears, singing "I cant hear you dah dah dahdah dah.", simply to keep themselves on "Pause", and in some cases will try and instil that lethagy onto others. Much along the lines of "PPsssst....if you get pulled over, jus' tell'em that you didn't know anythink 'bout tyres 'aving' to 'ave tread on'em".

 

 

 

The MCPS have joined the forum but have so far declined to introduce themselves / participate in threads.

It's early days of coursel and maybe they are just busy at the moment, but I still think it would be a great help if they could at least answer and address remaining concerns of our forum members before the DJ Show North event.

 

 

 

I think that we need to make a distriction between "declined" which suggests active avoidance, although there's been no hint of that.

 

 

 

ProDub have indeed been visiting a number of forums and have been posting on quite a few of them - why not every single forum? Well here's something which I heard directly from the person at MCPS-PRS who actually did the signing up on some of the forums - and its a phrase which myself as a former moderator here, and I'm sure yourself Dan, and the other co-admins, super-mods,mods etc will whole-heartedly relate to. MCPS-PRS do not get paid for their time on the forums (see...I said that it would sound familiar...) they do not have time allocated in their days to specifically sit on the forums (again, all so familiar).

 

 

 

I cant blame MCPS-PRS for avoiding posting on some other forums where one or two abrasive individuals with no valid questions, would just try to twist and mis-quote any valid information which was posted. These little e-warriors generally make a big noise online but would take a far more respectable persona the moment they let go of their mouse.

 

 

 

Here below is an example of text which I've found very quickly and very easily duing my sweeps of other forums. Incidently this isnt a direct cut'n'paste from any one forum in particular, but the info is the same, I typed it in manually here (not a link or direct cut/paste)

 

 

 

 

 

"Hello

 

Please call the ProDub Licensing team on 0208 378 7500. They will be able to answer your questions. There is also an extensive FAQ section at www.produb.co.uk You can also send an email directly to info@produb.co.uk If you fancy a face-to-face chat, ProDub will be represented at DJ Show North in Leeds. All the best The ProDub Team"

 

 

 

One of the posts which I found on a forum, which covered more or less the same details was posted on a SUNDAY... not exactly a "normal" Monday to Friday. The guys at MCPS-PRS genuinely want to get your questions answered. I've spoken to them possibly more than 15 times in the last 4 weeks, and no, not just to go over the finer details of the Denon DH-HD2500 which they are offering as the prize in their free-to-enter prize draw on the Pro-Dub Website.

 

 

 

I wanted answers to certain aspects of the Pro-Dub license before I puchased my Produb license - Only when I got those answers to my questions; my concerns did I then prepare myself to spend £400, on the 20,000 audio only tracks license - I was of course delighted to find out that it only cost me £300 thanks to the 25% discount thats currently being offered for the next 3 weeks.

 

 

 

So above, there are no less than three 100%, straight from the horses mouth, great contact methods all offering help and assistance to anyone who actually wants to ask a question and/or seek information, I've even read somewhere about posts suggesting that next year the license will be 8 million quid etc. haha did the poster keep the receipt for that crystal ball? Theres be no evidence which I've seen (and I have been following this very closely from a number of angles, for some time), to keep that notion afloat for even a moment.

 

 

 

Please, please, please - anyone, if you've got a question about the ProDub license....if you're sitting there ripping NOW 70 (ok, I know I';m a few days early on that) thinking "Hmmmm I wish I felt more legal doing this - I'd buy the Pro-dub license if I only knew for sure that it covered x,y,z", "Oh, I wonder how the Pro-Dub deals with backups on x,y, or z", please just drop them an email, or give them a call on the numbers/details above or pop up (or down - if you're that way geographically located).and see them at either DJ Show North, or BPM show.

 

 

 

On that point, there's been a post about how "poorly" the questions are going to get answered at those forthcoming shows...definately take that crystal ball back... but tell me the lottery numbers for the weekends of DJ Show North Weekend and BPM weekend first please...on second thoughts, that crystal ball isnt working right, so dont worry - Now that the license is full up and running, and PPL have finally come back with their (which were still unconfirmed when some people tried to call MCPS-PRS a day or two before the July launch, the guys at MCPS-PRS are able to give far more succinct answers to questions.

 

 

 

Also, the number sold so far is very encouraging, considering that it's only 2 weeks into the license, and its likely that the take-up will snowball as the advertising gets around as much as the word of mouth (and possibly in at least one other way...more on that in due course).

 

 

 

Got questions? Call MCPS-PRS or Email them using the details above.

 

 

Edited July 18, 2008 by Gary

[Dukesy 0]

With the reference to DJs comments. I'll just happily stick with the basic facts from what I've read on the forum threads here since the "big announcement!", but I will take on board your comment 'active avoidance', etc.

 

It's quite true, the time and effort put into a forum is unpaid by those who keep things running but I would beg to differ on your point about "MCPS-PRS.... do not have time allocated in their days to specifically sit on the forums..." I would have thought that researching the current views of DJs towards the rolling out of this licence would be classed as market research, especially as they do seem to be relying entirely on the online communities to do the promoting of its existence for them. Other examples of legislators using the internet to do research are the Police, Inland Revenue and other Government establishments. To highlight one example would be the recent investigation on video sharing sites for drivers and motorcyclists filming themselves breaking the speed limit on UK highways.

 

I'm sure that when the MCPS-PRS do get time to participate on DJU (which you yourself have described as being referred to as the 'more professionally minded forum of the bunch') they will be welcomed and encouraged to participate.

I'm sure you know the AUP like the back of your hand and that we do not actively encourage hostility or hatred towards any member.

 

From what I understand, although recently it was dismissed in a thread that "he who pays the piper calls the tune" ...does not apply to this situation, a number of individuals who have internet privileges and are aware about this licence don't seem to really question the price, but more particular terms of the licence and what elements of the licence content says.

I may of course be off the mark here, but at least the DJs of DJU will be able to put their own questions directly (valid or not) and I'm sure the questions will be civil even when a thread reaches heated discussion! smile icon

 

With regard to the info added at the bottom of your post, to be fair, DJs here (and probably elsewhere) were under the impression that up until recently, there was no real need for individuals to ring up and pester the MCPS-PRS, especially when there was already a group from our sector of the profession in talks.

From what I have been told and read, when individuals did ring MCPS-PRS on their own esteem, the answers were on a scale ranging from disappointing, to poor, to ignored over the last twelve months or more!

Speaking from my own experience, whenever I have taken the trouble to chase up the MCPS-PRS on a point via the telephone, I've got through 3-4 times out of 5 over he last year but only once was any real information given. Emails were ignored but I expect that had more to do with their spam filters!

 

Indeed, whilst no one here has a crystal ball for next year and the year after that, people tend to judge on the current actions (even former actions) and draw conclusions which is just down to human nature and perceptions.

So if there is an indication that, for example, the MCPS-PRS have never raised fees, this would not be an area of contention!

 

Naturally, there will always be those that see and share the same view, drawing the same conclusion.

Of course, this doesn't mean to say that the Keith Richard fans will not take up the licence... but since the results aren't viewable, then there must be either a number of good valid reasons why they voted for the Stone or one outstanding one! LOL!

 

Again, purely out of interest, what is the official stance of Denon?

I believe that Numark were not impressed with the PPL licence but do you know what the official stance of Numark is now with the MCPS-PRS licence?

[McCardle 1]

i think people are wisely being cautious, after all as deejays we are still human. I don't think people want to be tied into terms which they simply dont agree with, especially as there is clearly an alternative, and that is licence avoidance (rather than licence evasion). Besides, its been drummed into the public by the media to secrutinse all documents and be sure of what you are signing before you actually sign it and several members have pointed out questions which are still as yet, unanswered. Above all, you should understand the terms which you are agreeing to, and the contact that you are entering into, and that should apply regardless of whether the paperwork is brought to you by a friend, a member of the family, a company or a bearded man dragging a cross.

Edited July 20, 2008 by McCardle

[Reverandfunk 0]

I haven't bought it because it's never going to get policed and all of my mp3's on my laptop are legal downloads officer.

 

Would you like to check the origin of all 5000 of them?

And exactly how would you like to do that?

 

piffle

[Dream Catchers 0]

If you haven't signed your rights away, sorry I mean bought the license, who has the right to even look at your downloads?

Surely a warrant is needed.

 

Jim

[Reverandfunk 0]

Jim the main point about it is this which none of the pro pro dud people seem to be able to answer:

 

If by some miracle I get visited by an inspector *coughs* and I have 5000 tracks on my laptop exactly when are these going to get checked?

 

This isn't a 5 minute job and obviously they can't do it whilst i'm working so will they have seizure powers to take your laptop or HD controller away?

[Dream Catchers 0]

Jim the main point about it is this which none of the pro pro dud people seem to be able to answer:

 

If by some miracle I get visited by an inspector *coughs* and I have 5000 tracks on my laptop exactly when are these going to get checked?

 

This isn't a 5 minute job and obviously they can't do it whilst i'm working so will they have seizure powers to take your laptop or HD controller away?

That seems to be covered by the license

2.5 Upon receiving a written (or e-mail) request from MCPS, you shall supply

to MCPS within 21 (twenty-one) days such information as requested relating to

Copies you have made during the Term.

But like I say, if you haven't signed your rights away, what right have they got to that information?

Maybe there is a clause in the EULA of the download site that you have used that has a similar clause, but lets say for instance you were to tell them the laptop is for the database search facilities only, then I cannot see how they can legally look at it.

 

Jim

[djweeble 0]

MCPS are a private company, working on behalf of other private companies, they have absolutely no rights whatsoever to inspect, confiscate, demand access to, or whatever as regards your equipment, without first obtaining a court order.

 

The courts cannot and will not give them those orders without them providing proof of why they need them, and as you can quite litteraly tell them (MCPS) to go forth and multiply, they have no way of inspecting your drives in order to get that proof. In addition, the courts cannot order you to give them the information either, as to do so would be a breach of your human rights. The Human Rights Act 2thoosand and blob states that you cannot be forced to provide information or statements that will assist in your prosecution, and as it is EeeeYooo law, it is superior to ALL UK laws.

 

If someone was actually stupid enough to give them the info they required, all they can claim is actual damages (number of proveable illegal tracks X £250 / 5000), plus 8% per annum, plus costs, and in the County Court (where all these claims would be heard) costs are restricted. There would be no confiscation of equipment unless you refused to pay, and even then the only people who can do that are court appointed bailiffs.

 

Finaly, UK laws have to be seen to be equally applied to all persons, and as MCPS have already stated that they are not going to go after Joe Bloggs down the road with his iBog full of music, they are not complying with this most BASIC requirement.

 

MCPS are on a hiding to nothing.

Edited July 21, 2008 by djweeble