More Bass Needed

[ACE SOUNDS 0]

I am running a pair of peavey speakers with a roclab mrt60 mixer.How is the best way to get more bass as i keep geting asked for more should i change my speakers but i dont have room for bass bins Thanks Dave

[buskersball 0]

I am running a pair of peavey speakers with a roclab mrt60 mixer.How is the best way to get more bass as i keep geting asked for more should i change my speakers but i dont have room for bass bins Thanks Dave

 

You could try using a Behringer Ultrafex (or similar sound processor). You gotta be careful with them that you don't overdo it, but always worked for me.

 

[TonyB 0]

What Peavey speakers are you using? Make model and size will make a difference.

 

Also what amp are you using with them as the power output will make a difference.

 

 

[ACE SOUNDS 0]

hi the speakers are peavey impulse 200 they are 600 wats each and the amp is a skytec 2000 wat

[TonyB 0]

Hello smile icon

 

The Peavey Impulse are 300w RMS. 600w is the peak power and should be ignored.

 

They are also 12" and although have a nice black window woofer, they are not designed for ground shattering bass.

 

I can't find details a Skytec 2000w amp. Chances are that the 2000w label is also misleading as that may only be the peak power that it will give when, for example, it is bridges or running at 4 ohms. In normal useage, the actual power is likely to be a lot less, and being a budget amp, may lack power for bottom end.

 

Changing your speakers for 15" ones would probably help. Getting a better amp may help but you would have to try it and see.

 

If you are being asked for more bass, I suspect you are doing gigs for the younger generation

? It is very unlikely that you will be able to achieve a sufficient amount of bass without a bass bin in these situations. They like to be able to feel the punch from the bass which you are unlikely to achieve from a cab with a 12" woofer.

 

I do use an Ultrafex but, as Buskerball mentions, you have to be careful not to push the speakers beyond their design limit. It very much depends how much more bass you need and I don't think an Ultrafex would do enough with 12" cabs for the average younger persons disco.

 

So I would suggest either finding room for a bass bin or upgrading to 15" cabs with a better amp.

[ACE SOUNDS 0]

OK thanks for that tony that is a great help what amp and speakers do you think i should go for as its not only the young crowd that have been asking for more bass thanks again for your help

[buskersball 0]

Hello smile icon

 

The Peavey Impulse are 300w RMS. 600w is the peak power and should be ignored.

 

They are also 12" and although have a nice black window woofer, they are not designed for ground shattering bass.

 

I can't find details a Skytec 2000w amp. Chances are that the 2000w label is also misleading as that may only be the peak power that it will give when, for example, it is bridges or running at 4 ohms. In normal useage, the actual power is likely to be a lot less, and being a budget amp, may lack power for bottom end.

 

Changing your speakers for 15" ones would probably help. Getting a better amp may help but you would have to try it and see.

 

If you are being asked for more bass, I suspect you are doing gigs for the younger generation

? It is very unlikely that you will be able to achieve a sufficient amount of bass without a bass bin in these situations. They like to be able to feel the punch from the bass which you are unlikely to achieve from a cab with a 12" woofer.

 

I do use an Ultrafex but, as Buskerball mentions, you have to be careful not to push the speakers beyond their design limit. It very much depends how much more bass you need and I don't think an Ultrafex would do enough with 12" cabs for the average younger persons disco.

 

So I would suggest either finding room for a bass bin or upgrading to 15" cabs with a better amp.

 

 

yeh, I presumed you had 15" speakers...12" are never gonna give a 'big' bass sound...and I wouldn't push them to try and achieve it. Why no room for bins? I use bins instead of speaker stands, they don't have to be massive. Just one sub bin would give you a noticeable improvement.

 

Could it not also be the amp? I can't remember the tech ins and outs, but I know from hifi experience that a good amp with lots of 'headroom' gives a better bass sound than budget models (and I'm not sure a Skytec amp is all that good)

 

Coincidentally, I have a pair of HZ bins for sale

Not decided to sell em for definite yet though as I want some active ones first :joe:

[ACE SOUNDS 0]

Would some skytec active speakers give me a better sound

[supersound dj 0]

I use Peavey impulse 115 s and they give great crisp bass.

 

to get good bass out of your impulse 200s you could try a peavey Kosmos which enhanses the bass signal and gives a quake option too.

 

Paul

[DJ Marky Marc 0]

why cant you have a bass bin or two ?

[Andy Westcott 0]

Yea - nice big fat ones, ported nice & low... :joe:

 

(Borrow a member of the audience to assist if you work alone.)

 

Seriously though, if you want the really deep bass, you will need at least one dedicated bass bin. There are many an argument as to whether 15 inch or 18 inch is best, but for high level fundamental bass I'd say an 18 would perform better, simply because of the lower cone travel per volume of air displaced.

 

A separate amp for the bass is also a good idea.

[norty303 0]

12" are never gonna give a 'big' bass sound

 

There are many an argument as to whether 15 inch or 18 inch is best

 

 

Actually......

 

There are some very impressive horn loaded subs using 12" drivers. Commercial products such as the JTS Growler and Danley Sound Labs TH112 and DIY designs such as the Punisher Horn ( http://www.speakerstore.nl/index.php?l=en&pg=11&c=21 ) and Tom Danleys LAB Sub ( http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/f/3/0/ ) all use 12" drivers in what are usually very high compression horns.

 

They usually all have a high XMAX and are used over a larger diameter driver because the cone stresses are very high in those applications which means the larger unsupported area of the cone results in mechanical failure. 12" drivers act more like a piston and can be driven with more resistive air loads.

 

The bottom line is that 12" bass horns tend to give a far more accurate and 'faster' bass sound unless you're using 18" drivers with 5" voice coils that are capable of controlling the cone mass.

[ACE SOUNDS 0]

Ok thanks guys that has all been a great help

[buskersball 0]

Actually......

 

There are some very impressive horn loaded subs using 12" drivers. Commercial products such as the JTS Growler and Danley Sound Labs TH112 and DIY designs such as the Punisher Horn ( http://www.speakerstore.nl/index.php?l=en&pg=11&c=21 ) and Tom Danleys LAB Sub ( http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/f/3/0/ ) all use 12" drivers in what are usually very high compression horns.

 

They usually all have a high XMAX and are used over a larger diameter driver because the cone stresses are very high in those applications which means the larger unsupported area of the cone results in mechanical failure. 12" drivers act more like a piston and can be driven with more resistive air loads.

 

The bottom line is that 12" bass horns tend to give a far more accurate and 'faster' bass sound unless you're using 18" drivers with 5" voice coils that are capable of controlling the cone mass.

 

Well yes...but designs like this aren't normal in your usual off the shelf speakers. If you had a pair of these cabs made, you'd only be able to afford a 12" driver

 

[Andy Westcott 0]

I'm not sure that's true - if you are good-ish with joinery a folded horn design needn't be that difficult to build. Depends on your ability or who you know.

[supersound dj 0]

I had a folded horn once ...but then i got married..seirios tho reflex boards used to enhance bass in 70s cabs eg the old carlsbros

[buskersball 0]

I'm not sure that's true - if you are good-ish with joinery a folded horn design needn't be that difficult to build. Depends on your ability or who you know.

 

 

Good at joinery?????

have you seen it????

http://www.speakerstore.nl/index.php?l=en&pg=11&c=2

[norty303 0]

That link is to a trapezoid 10" cab.

 

Here's the Punisher one

 

http://www.speakerstore.nl/index.php?pg=11&c=21

 

 

If you think thats complex, don't even think of looking at the LAB Sub. :)

 

 

A point of interest with these cabs, where reflex and bandpass cabs go for the most sensitive driver possible, these high compression horns tend to have a fairly low sensitivity driver. this is because they have very stiff cones, long voice coils for high excursion all of which adds to the weight and makes them less sensitive. The trade off comes because you can then load them in a very sensitive horn which makes up the deficit. So when looking at specs for horns, make sure you look at the overall sensitivity, not just the driver's, because on paper many of them look very poor.

[ACE SOUNDS 0]

Hi all i think the best way for me to go would be a pair off active speakers what sort would be good for gigs for partys upto 200 people max

[DJ Marky Marc 0]

PRX525

 

I would start with these and Add Bass bins at a later date when the budget allows...

 

the Extra 15" driver will be almost like a bass bin anyway...

 

 

[Pete Best 0]

I'm not sure that's true - if you are good-ish with joinery a folded horn design needn't be that difficult to build. Depends on your ability or who you know.

The only way to get a big bottom end is to move lots of air thats why most bass speakers/bins are 15" and 18" and they are normaly big cabs aswell same as you cant get a lirtre from a pint pot

[Andy Westcott 0]

Very true if you are using reflex designs - see mine for an example.

 

However, with a horn the physics are slightly different - you are dealing with an acoustic impedance matching transformer, which starts at the driver end as high pressure but small movement (hence norty's recommendation of a 12" driver) and ends up at the horn mouth as a low pressure wave but high air movement.

 

The power remains the same, but the throat is suited to the characteristics of typical driver design, and the mouth offers an output suitable for matching to the room.

 

But all this is overly complicated considering the original question.

Maybe buy a single sub and house it in the middle behind a starcloth or similar, when funds permit.

[norty303 0]

But all this is overly complicated considering the original question.

 

But perhaps broadening some peoples horizons and options.

[Andy Westcott 0]

Agreed. smile icon

[ACE SOUNDS 0]

Morning all this might sound daft but what is the best way to set up one bass bin as i have only got room for one in the car thanks for any help you can give