Now This Must Be A First, Well It Is For Me!

[dj.silver 0]

I've got a booking for a girl's 40th in December. This gig is priced as a 'normal' gig.

 

Her boyfriend has thrown a big old curve ball in the works - he's proposed to her and she's accepted!!! So in the middle of November he is whisking her off to Barbados to get married and honeymoon plus you know other things!

 

So the client calls me and explains all this, so there I am expecting her to say "Simon can you do a wedding party gig for us when we get back at the end of November". Well she did ask that, however she now wants it on the night of her 40th combining both occasions!

 

So dilemma time, how can I go back and ask for an increase in fee for the wedding? It's in the same venue, I'll be using the same equipment etc. The only thing that's different is I have to meet her for 30 minutes and discuss her first dance etc. Nothing else will change.

 

Anybody else experienced this little beauty?http://planetsmilies.net/confused-smiley-17424.gifhttp://planetsmilies.net/not-tagged-smiley-10097.gif

[bluejools 0]

I don't charge differently depending on the party type - so would cause me no problems.

[dh140770 0]

Take the financial hit and enjoy the party! It would pain me to go back and ask for more money because they put the word 'wedding' in front. I do charge more for weddings myself if they involve more work, mics, pre-meetings etc, but on this occasion I would take the hit methinks.

[Gary (GDK) 0]

Yeah I would bite the bullet to, although my charges are not my higher for a wedding!

[RobbieD 0]

I don't charge more because it's a wedding, but I do charge more if more work is involved, and generally for weddings there is.

The only thing that's different is I have to meet her for 30 minutes and discuss her first dance etc. Nothing else will change.

There's one example. I would imagine that you would now need to be set up earlier before the wedding breakfast (which they probably weren't having before)? Background music during this? Do they now need a microphone for the speeches?

 

Discuss all these things with her and quote her a new price. (I expect they are now having other services that they wouldn't of have for the 40th, such as flowers, etc.) If she still only wants you to turn up for the same number of hours and doesn't want to meet with you in advance, then stick with the same price.

 

But personally, if she only wanted less than 10% extra cost worth of work from you, I would explain the extra work and costs involved, then offer to not charge extra as my personal wedding gift to her.

Edited September 19, 2008 by RobbieD

[deejaymitch 0]

I'd love to hear the explanation from anyone who did try to charge more. "Erm, sorry, but because every other service provider fleeces people for weddings, I do too. So I'm upping the price for exactly the same party."

 

I don't charge extra for weddings. I price every booking based on location and duration. And I put in a lot of preparation, planning and effort into every function.

[D.X 0]

I'd love to hear the explanation from anyone who did try to charge more. "Erm, sorry, but because every other service provider fleeces people for weddings, I do too. So I'm upping the price for exactly the same party."

 

I don't charge extra for weddings. I price every booking based on location and duration. And I put in a lot of preparation, planning and effort into every function.

 

 

Bingo.

 

A wedding function really isn't all that different to a birthday party for the DJ. You travel there, set up, play music for 4-5 hours, break down then go home. Obviously at weddings there's a bit more mic work involved with the speeches, cutting of the cake etc but is that really worth charging extra for. I'm not so sure it is.

 

And as you said Mitch, DJs should put as much preparation and effort into a wedding as they would any party. Not all wedding clients require a pre-wedding consultation and if they do just charge them traveling expenses to the venue. I've seen some websites where DJs are charging £50-100 more for weddings. I can't see how they justify it to be honest.

[McCardle 1]

I don't charge extra for weddings. I price every booking based on location and duration. And I put in a lot of preparation, planning and effort into every function.

 

I'm pretty much in agreement with this.

 

If you do decide to charge a tiered system which varies from function to function, there is always the danger that the client will realise, and ask you to justify the difference. It seems at the moment that you are having difficulty in justifying this to yourself, hence the question you posed here, so if you don't know, how are you going to convince and justify the reasons to your clients?, it sounds like you haven't got any reason to other than perhaps you feel that a Wedding budget is more buoyant and healthy than a 40th, but is that enough to pacify a client?.

 

I don't think that there is any uniqueness here, the same could have occured if you had been doing a 40th birthday for a client, and one of the guests wanted to book you for a Wedding. Later the two people are chatting over a coffee and the subject of your disco comes up, immediately client 2 realises that she has been charged more for her Wedding, than client 1 was for her husbands 40th, next minute she is on the phone to you demanding why she is paying more than her friend for a function in the same area and similar timescale! and you are back in the same situation.

 

I'm not having a go at you, its enitrely up to you what you charge and what for and nobody can criticise you. However if you do decide to tread this path then it may be better to have a justifiable reason right at the beginning, rather than search for one, when you client is about to ask awkward questions!.

 

If you feel that you can get more money as a Wedding Deejay, and the market is more lucrative, then why not just become a Wedding Specialist and customise your disco, service, website and literature to that market?.

Edited September 19, 2008 by McCardle

[D.X 0]

 

 

If you feel that you can get more money as a Wedding Deejay, and the market is more lucrative, then why not just become a Wedding Specialist and customise your disco, service, website and literature to that market?.

 

This is what we did. We market ourselves as wedding entertainers but can cover pretty much any gig. This way we don't cut ourselves off from the lucrative Christmas and new years eve work. But, birthday, works do or wedding, the price is all the same.

 

[deejaymitch 0]

This is what we did. We market ourselves as wedding entertainers but can cover pretty much any gig. This way we don't cut ourselves off from the lucrative Christmas and new years eve work. But, birthday, works do or wedding, the price is all the same.

 

This attitude is fantastic but I know it's going to stir up a hornet's nest amongst the Wedding Specialists who provide the same service as many of us for a greatly inflated price, then complain that anyone wyho charges a fair price must be rubbish/illegal/unreliable and is killing the industry.

[Neil of the Roadshow 0]

I know weddings are a bit more tricky than parties, but only if its the full wedding day thing. However, if they are getting married abroad and its just the home party its not so much extra stress.

 

We do generally charge a bit more for weddings due to the responsibility attached and the fact I have kittens and turn up way too early every time.

 

Use it as a great PR exercise. Explain when you meet them that you usually charge extra for weddings, but as its them theres no worries and you will honor the orginal fee. The positive PR they will generate for you is worth the minor hit on the fee and will probably generate some work form friends or familly.

 

 

 

P.S. Just because we specialise in weddings doesn't make us any better than anyone else out there and as I have said previously free market economics rule baby.

 

[Kingy 0]

I'd love to hear the explanation from anyone who did try to charge more. "Erm, sorry, but because every other service provider fleeces people for weddings, I do too. So I'm upping the price for exactly the same party."

 

I don't charge extra for weddings. I price every booking based on location and duration. And I put in a lot of preparation, planning and effort into every function.

 

I completely agree, especially the last sentence.

[Danno13 0]

This attitude is fantastic but I know it's going to stir up a hornet's nest amongst the Wedding Specialists who provide the same service as many of us for a greatly inflated price, then complain that anyone wyho charges a fair price must be rubbish/illegal/unreliable and is killing the industry.

 

But everyones definition of a "fair price" is different. Personally, I think what we do is worth way more than a Chocolate Fountain, Hiring a toilet block or a dancefloor etc. yet these services are nearly always far more expensive than DJs. Is it really an "inflated price" by trying to be more realistic and make a living from DJing, like the above mentioned companies all manage to.

Edited September 19, 2008 by Danno13

[deejaymitch 0]

Explain when you meet them that you usually charge extra for weddings

 

 

And say what if the ask why? That could backfire as a negative PR exercise.

 

But everyones definition of a "fair price" is different. Personally, I think what we do is worth way more than a Chocolate Fountain, Hiring a toilet block or a dancefloor etc. yet these services are nearly always far more expensive than DJs. Is it really an "inflated price" by trying to be more realistic and make a living from DJing, like the above mentioned companies all manage to.

 

True. But using the same logic:

 

- we do at a wedding is worth more than a chocolate fountain so we should get paid more than them

 

it would also be true

 

- what we do at a wedding is no more than at any private booking (at least I hope not) and so we should charge the same for all.

 

It's personal choice and there will be strong views on both sides, both of which are justifiable. Some arguments will mean more to individuals than others.

[Neil of the Roadshow 0]

But everyones definition of a "fair price" is different. Personally, I think what we do is worth way more than a Chocolate Fountain, Hiring a toilet block or a dancefloor etc. yet these services are nearly always far more expensive than DJs. Is it really an "inflated price" by trying to be more realistic and make a living from DJing, like the above mentioned companies all manage to.

 

The problem with our profession against all the other bits you mention is you don't get a number of amateurs thinking doing chocolate fountains or hiring dance floors is dead easy or something they do because they enjoy it.

 

'And thats not having a go at anyone before I get a tongue lashing - the former don't last long and the later are entitled to do something for enjoyment'

 

The profession is in my opinion undervalued and the level of responsibility for DJ's, particularly on weddings (but not exclusively), is not comensurate with the other elements of that event.

 

Wedding - average now is £14,000 - price of DJ (who does about 35 to 40% of the day) £200 - 1.5% of the cost for 40% of the day. The issue is that free market economics and comparative perceptions deliver the expectation of the prices we are quoting. Again chocolate fountains are not booked for parties so are only encountered by people rarely, thus they have no point of reference. When it comes to comparison with DJ's they have uncle Berts 50th where they got a DJ for £90 and it makes anything double that look comparatively high.

 

On the other hand its interesting how many people are happy just to accept £300 quoted by the venues for the house DJ (of which the venue can generally take a third as commission). I can only make the assumption that the higher rate is accepted freely as the hotel are seen as endoursing and therefore guaranteeing the quality. Again perception that there is a quality assurance attached.

 

An interesting debate that comes up again and again by the looks of it.

 

Returning to the top of my point, I am one of those afore mentioned amateurs as it is my hobby (the enjoy it ones, not the I think its easy ones). However, and rather importantly, I am not in the business of undercutting my competition and allow customers to select on a basis of recommendation or presentation through marketing and meetings. I go out at around the average fees for my locality.

 

Its very easy to drive down average fees through comparative perception. But then we come back to free market economics and the supply and demand factors. If supply outstrips demand, as it invariable does, then there is always going to be someone who will do it cheaper than the other guy.

 

So what do we do. There are various associations and forums around. Do we try and achieve a national institution of DJ's with a code of ethics, expectations on service delivery and outline fee basis. Thus creating an acreditation and raising standards and perceptions. It will never happen so free market prevails.

 

However, we have gone off thread. Sorry for that.

 

P.S. I am not really a boring git - I am quite a fun guy on the inside and my DJ'ing is the outlet for my inner mentalist.

[McCardle 1]

Personally, I think what we do is worth way more than a Chocolate Fountain, Hiring a toilet block or a dancefloor etc. yet these services are nearly always far more expensive than DJs

 

What it comes down to is the public's view of our services and what the client thinks that 'we' are worth. In the great pecking order of life, I wonder what the public perception of these services are, and whether the public actually perceive them to be of a higher standard (and therfore worthy of a higher price) than DJ's. I wonder if some of the owners of mobile toilets, Wedding Car Hire and chocolate fountains are also engaged in sending sexually abusive text messages to female members of their industry (as brought to light within our industry recently) or do they act with more decorum (sp). Quite frankly if the public are aware of this type of thing, and the poor level of professionalism and maturity shown by some members of our fraternity rubs off when they work in the public domain, then its going to devalue the industry across the board, and i'm not surprised that there are instances where the general public are reluctant to pay top dollar for our services, and the rest of us suffer because of a small minority.

 

But everyones definition of a "fair price" is different

 

Exactly, as is each individuals budget, and there will always be room for the lower end of a price scale in any industry, which is why individuals like Stelios carved and made their fortunes and is also why we are not all driving around in Lamborghini Gallardo's, why the majority of us shop at Tesco instead of Fortnam and Mason, and why there isn't an Harrods on every street corner.

Edited September 19, 2008 by McCardle

[Neil of the Roadshow 0]

which is why individuals like Stelios carved and made their fortunes

 

Not wishing to be pedantic, but Stelios is from a Millionaire familly hence he was able to attract the necessary venture capital to start an airline. Sorry, its just one of those points often missed, or glossed over, when Easyjet is used as a free market comparison.

 

The other point on professionalism agreed, as I was rambling on about earlier. Did anybody ever sort Mr Texter out?

 

 

[McCardle 1]

How about Julian Richer as a comparison then?! (sorry my smilies don't work, but insert one here)

Edited September 19, 2008 by McCardle

[dj.silver 0]

Good stuff everyone, cheers. I'm not going back to her for an increase in fee, to be honest I never was. I just wanted to see what discussion it raised, as it puts a slightly different angle on the normal debate.

 

It is a completely true and real situation that got simply got me thinking about how some charge more for weddings than other types of gigs when in essence they are alike. Just a shame she doesn't want me to go to Barbados for it (ex's paid naturally).

 

For dj's who offer an all day service say, pa systems for speeches plus other add ons then yes, there is a value to that, that should be charged for. However if it's just like my situation, I find it hard in my mind to charge more for a very similar service for a wedding to a birthday gig.

[Neil of the Roadshow 0]

For dj's who offer an all day service say, pa systems for speeches plus other add ons then yes, there is a value to that, that should be charged for. However if it's just like my situation, I find it hard in my mind to charge more for a very similar service for a wedding to a birthday gig.

 

Good point - I should have clarified why we charge more for weddings as we do offer all day packages including PA for background music when guests arrive, radio mic for speaches, as well as also having a Kev of the roadshow able to do rat pack style swing vocal sets during the meal. Our wedding offer is more than just straight DJ which is why we charge more.

 

Would there be an extra bagage charge for taking your PA to Barbados?

[Bouncy Dancefloor 0]

am i the only one who offers an "enhanced package"?

 

we offer a standard show for X amount, then we offer an "enhanced" package, generally the difference is the lightshow, instead of standard disco style lights, you get more DMX effects all wired together and looks alot more substantial

 

birthdays tend to go for the standard show, weddings always go for the enhanced show. Now in this particular scenario, id be in a position to "upsell" the show as its a wedding.

[McCardle 1]

Occasionally there are things that you can do to boost your worth a little, and the best thing is that they cost you nothing.

 

1) Always answer emails and follow up voicemail messages in a timely manner. We all find lateness a discourtesy and we all hate waiting around the important quotes when we are a customer ourselves. The whole point of online services is that it is supposed to be quicker and more convenient!, so if you do accept emails and use webforms, then checking your emails every 3 or 4 days isn't going to impress a client - check every few hours. Besides the more time the client is left hanging, the more time they have of searching and finding your competitors, and occasionally there is somebody better than 'you' out there who is faster at answering enquiries.

 

2) Don't answer emails with one line answers, use the opportunity to sell your services. Smile whilst you are on the telephone, this old piece of advice really does work!. Also show an interest in your clients' wedding and make it sound like you take their enjoyment as seriously as they do. Ask lots of questions and really work at selling your business to them. If you sound like a bored call centre operative, or like you are reading from the script and ummm and arrrrrrr continuously then its unlikely to impress an they'll go and find a deejay who is interested and is well versed!.

 

3) Remember you shouldn't keep telling your clients about how professional you are , it's bigheaded and makes people nervous as self praise is no praise at all. The way that you speak to clients and your mannerisms and how you deal with their enquiry will portray how professional you are and inspire confidence in the fact that they are making the right decision. Actions always speak louder than words.

 

4) Look happy behind the Disco!. I've lost count of the number of bored, unhappy looking deejays that i've seen over the years and apathy really is infectious.

 

we offer a standard show for X amount, then we offer an "enhanced" package, generally the difference is the lightshow, instead of standard disco style lights, you get more DMX effects all wired together and looks alot more substantial

 

What would happen if a client booked an enhanced package, and you turned up at the venue to find that you had about 6 foot square in which to set up in?. Sometimes clients really do think that you can fit 30 lighting effects in a venue the size of a matchbox, in much the same way as some venue managers think you can pack away in 10 minutes at the end.

 

Personally I think letting clients with no experience of A/V or lighting equipment dictate the technical side bsed on the size of their budget is open to many pitfalls. In most cases, I use the size of the venue and my experience to decide the size of the sound and lighting rig, after all, I am the one with the experience of such equipment, and I want to ensure that the system is just right for the venue. Working in a venue for 1000 people on a 40 foot long stage is going to look embarrassing for me, if the client has only budgeted for a 300W sound system and two datamoons, in much the same way as turning up at the local pub function room to a gig with 15 people is going to look a bit OTT with a 6kw turbosound rig and 10 moving heads and 15kw of parcans.

 

I think if you are going to offer VFM (value for money) additions and extensions to your business, then I think they have to be in the form of services and not how much gear you plug in. Thats just my opinion though, not a criticism.

Edited September 20, 2008 by McCardle

[Dream Catchers 0]

As far as charging for the amount of lighting, I find the opposite.

An 18th party client tends to want loads of lights, strobes, lasers and smoke for £200, whereas a wedding they tend to prefer a neat setup with a booth and maybe 4 moving heads for double the money.

 

The fee for a wedding tends to be higher because of a few reasons. I go and meet the client (where for a 40th I may only phone them), I normally set up earlier (maybe at room change over), the evening tends also to be longer (a typical 40th starts at about 8, where a wedding "evening only" tends to start at 7), with a wedding there is generally more input and organisation.

 

In this case, if they were sticking to the original times I would'nt alter my price, however if they wanted an earlier start I would charge accordingly.

 

Jim

Edited September 20, 2008 by JimBoylan

[D.X 0]

Wedding - average now is £14,000 - price of DJ (who does about 35 to 40% of the day) £200 - 1.5% of the cost for 40% of the day.

 

40% of £14,000 is £5600. Roll on the times we can charge that for gigs tongue out icon

[Bouncy Dancefloor 0]

What would happen if a client booked an enhanced package, and you turned up at the venue to find that you had about 6 foot square in which to set up in?. Sometimes clients really do think that you can fit 30 lighting effects in a venue the size of a matchbox, in much the same way as some venue managers think you can pack away in 10 minutes at the end.

 

Personally I think letting clients with no experience of A/V or lighting equipment dictate the technical side bsed on the size of their budget is open to many pitfalls. In most cases, I use the size of the venue and my experience to decide the size of the sound and lighting rig, after all, I am the one with the experience of such equipment, and I want to ensure that the system is just right for the venue. Working in a venue for 1000 people on a 40 foot long stage is going to look embarrassing for me, if the client has only budgeted for a 300W sound system and two datamoons, in much the same way as turning up at the local pub function room to a gig with 15 people is going to look a bit OTT with a 6kw turbosound rig and 10 moving heads and 15kw of parcans.

 

I think if you are going to offer VFM (value for money) additions and extensions to your business, then I think they have to be in the form of services and not how much gear you plug in. Thats just my opinion though, not a criticism.

 

I think you are forgetting the basics here and perhaps being a little bit picky. If the venue was tiny, then of course i wouldnt offer a bigger package. Much like if the occasion was for 1000 people, i wouldnt offer a standard show. But did i really need to say that? However a standard venue could accomodate small and larger disco's, why not offer them multiple packages? If you ask a customer what their budget is, they arent going to tell you that its alot. So theyd play it safe. So by offering multiple prices/packages, the customer can decide which package is best for them. Now, by "Best for them", you wouldnt offer something inadequate, because that would be plain unprofessional. However the same venue could be used for a Standard show for a 40th birthday, the next week could have a much larger show for a Wedding, why? Because they were offered options, they can then choose the one that best fits their budget and requirements. Some people just arent bothered by how many lights they get, so the standard one applies, yet some really love a pretty show and are willing to pay more for the privalege.