To Refund Or Not To Refund, That Is The Question

[DJ JENX 0]

Hey Guys, good to be back here, not! I was enjoying the carribean weather, now its cccold!! Anyways.....

 

A local DJ friend of mine took a booking for next year for a wedding. He was called by a DJ from a nearby town who said he had double booked and asked if he could take the gig.

 

He agreed and then the DJ sent him a £100 deposit. He said hed tell the client and sent a copy of the contract.

 

A month went by and now the client wanted to cancel as he or she is saying that they werent told about the change.

 

So my mate wants to know wether he has the right to refund only half, as his terms are that he takes a non refundable deposit of £50.

 

Hes saying he missed out on a second booking as he thought this one was taken.

 

I dont know how to answer this one and told him I'd put it to you guys.

 

Should he take the fall for this other DJ messing up and probably double booking on purpose for the higher fee, and then not telling the client? OR should he say, no, ill refund half and the other half will be met by the initial DJ?

 

I think its dodgy grounds as there is officially no contract now is there.

[vokf 0]

 

Keep the £100 - you don't mention if the Original DJ is asking for it back...

 

The original DJ should have been honest with his client and your friend should have checked that the client was ok with the change.

 

[DJ JENX 0]

Keep the £100 - you don't mention if the Original DJ is asking for it back...

 

The original DJ should have been honest with his client and your friend should have checked that the client was ok with the change.

Well the client is now calling my friend to get the money back, so what does he do,just send a letter saying its up to the other dj to pay?

[D.X 0]

Your friends contract doesn't really count as from what I can gather, the client hasn't signed it.

 

Still, I'd keep the money and tell the client to get it back off the DJ who created this mess.

 

Double booked eh. Hmmmmmmm. Whenever I hear of DJs being double booked I always get the impression they found a better gig elsewhere. I mean, how hard is it to check a diary. If people are allowing themselves to receive payment for gigs without checking their diary then that's just as bad.

[DJ JENX 0]

Your friends contract doesn't really count as from what I can gather, the client hasn't signed it.

 

Still, I'd keep the money and tell the client to get it back off the DJ who created this mess.

 

Double booked eh. Hmmmmmmm. Whenever I hear of DJs being double booked I always get the impression they found a better gig elsewhere. I mean, how hard is it to check a diary. If people are allowing themselves to receive payment for gigs without checking their diary then that's just as bad.

 

Fully agree there.

[Dream Catchers 0]

Your friend hasn't received anything from the client so has nothing to pay back to him.

He got his money from the other DJ.

Your mate has done nothing wrong so should keep the money, it is up to him if he gives any of the money back to the other DJ.

 

Jim

[DJ JENX 0]

Your friend hasn't received anything from the client so has nothing to pay back to him.

He got his money from the other DJ.

Your mate has done nothing wrong so should keep the money, it is up to him if he gives any of the money back to the other DJ.

 

Jim

 

 

seems like a unanimous response here, ill get him to do that. He'll be on watchdog next week!!!!

[Dukesy 0]

I would like to see a few more of the details - can you indicate the specific dates and time-scale please, i.e. when was the booking for, when did the 1st DJ take the enquiry and when did he send the £100 to your DJ friend, and when did the 'client' cancel the booking?

 

Also, this sort of topic should not be discussed in this or any other area of the forum other than the business and marketing area. :fish:

Topic moved.

[McCardle 1]

He agreed and then the DJ sent him a £100 deposit

 

Why did he send him the £100, on whose terms was this issued and what were the contractual terms surrounding the deposit?. In other words whatever was agreed (in writing) should happen to the £100 deposit in the event of a dispute or either party pulling out of the contract for whatever reason and the function not going ahead will all depend on whatever the signed agreement or contract stipulates will happen to it in this situation. So find out what the terms were, and tell your friend to follow them, simple!.

 

I think its dodgy grounds as there is officially no contract now is there

 

If no actual contract exists, then it would be difficult to prove any wrongdoing against either party or should I say breach of contract and so technically if it was just handed over with no agreement being issued then surely its a gift just like when Aunt Maggie used to send you a little something inside your card at Xmas and for Birthdays. Did your friend even sign a receipt for the £100?, the other DJ should have at least that for book keeping purposes. If your friend is unable to secure another booking for this date, then I agree that the cancellation is not through his doing and he would surely be entitled to some recompense depending on the amount of notice given, but £50 to compensate for what is potentially £200?, £300? or £400? worth of lost business doesn't sound like a crime to me.

 

In the situation as you describe, then the client MAY have a case against the other DJ for breach of contract if they were not informed of the change and were potentially denied the roadshow and Deejay that they were promised and were expecting, so yes they are in the right to cancel, in the same way as booking a holiday in Australia and then being taken to Bournmouth, its certainly not going to be in the other Dj's interests to persue the matter as the client is in the right. However, its not your friends fault that this has occured either. However its an expensive lesson for the other DJ who is at fault for not informing the customer in the first place.

 

Even Tesco online will advance notify of substitutions!.

 

What should have happened, was for the 1st deejay to return the customers deposit and explain the situation to them, and offer them your friend as a substitute. Then, if they agreed, than your friend should have issued his own contract to the client.

 

If you work without any form of contract then you are walking a bloody tightrope with no safety net and virtually no comebacks whatsoever in the event of a dispute. In order to take the matter further, whether it was a solicitor, small claims court or citizens advice then you would need to produce something in writing to prove that a breach of contract had taken place, or that the other party failed to return any monies as contractually agreed. Without it, it probably wouldn't be looked at twice.

 

I personally have a tiered agreement for deposits, on the basis that if a client pulls out at the last minute, and I am unable to secure another booking for that date, then technically its lost business and so just like holiday companies, and 100's of other businesses, then I keep a percentage of the deposit as compensation for the lost business. Usually, outside of 28 days I would return the entire deposit, within 14 - 28 days cancellation, I would keep 50% and if it was cancelled within 14 days, then I would keep 100% of the deposit. Of course there are descretions, such as the groom dropping dead, or acts of god such as flooding and famine.

 

If you just return full deposits willy-nilly then exactly what incentive is there to the client / agent / DJ to retain your services should they get a cheaper quote or a better offer after booking you? or the cat dies or they get a bit of a cold and decide to pull out, nothing at all if you don't levy some penalty for mundane and avoidable cancellations.

Edited December 12, 2008 by McCardle

[Wayno 0]

The way I see it is.......

 

Your friend took the £100.00 deposit from DJ 1, DJ 1 informed his client of the change (apparently) therefore the booking is with your friend and there in the cancelation - your friend should of raised the relevant contracts with the end client before taking the cash.

 

If DJ 1 did not notify the client then depending on the terms of contract (ie cancelation notice terms) your friend should return the money to DJ 1 who should in turn will return it to the client. if its outside a 31 day window then tough, this said it all hinges on whether the original DJ really notified the client of the change or if he just hoped for the best!

 

This said i'm sure the situation is not that clear cut and it sounds as though its without contracts (other then the original DJ 1 to client booking).

 

Whichever way you look at it its a ramshackle way of doing business and another notch on the ever-thing reputation of the professional DJ.

Edited December 12, 2008 by Wayno

[Dukesy 0]

Yes and no, IMO. smile icon

 

If the date of the function is months to go, then yes, the money should be returned in the good faith it was given, IMO.

However, if the function is imminent, then the DJ who accepted the money would need some remuneration in honouring the date he has verbally agreed to cover, say at least 50 - 75% of the money, especially if he has turned disco enquires away for the date in question, IMO.

Of course, there is always the possibility that the DJ could get another booking for the date, therefore to keep all the money he was retained for would not be fair, IMO.

Dates?

[McCardle 1]

Of course, there is always the possibility that the DJ could get another booking now, therefore to keep all the money would not be fair, IMO

 

And what about any time preparing for the event in its planning stages, or meeting with the client / other DJ in order to discuss the event prior to it being cancelled, and the cost of any phone calls / fuel / labour content in order to carry this out, is this not chargeable in some way, or should he just work in this capacity for nothing?.

 

 

What i'm trying to say is that Friend-Of-Jenx is not at fault here, other than failing to issue the correct paperwork and either insisting on a contract or getting something in writing themselves in order to protect their interests they have done no wrong nor have given the client any reason to persue or take action against them. So, although they are involved in the "Dj Triangle" they are innocent of any wrongdoing and so why should they be the loser in the situation?. The client is cancelling because the original Dj passed the work on without having the decency to tell them, and that isn't just bad business, its also bad manners, so surely the original deejay should absorb any penalty or out of pocket costs for what are, after all, entirely their own decisions?.

 

Personally, I agree with Wayno, and I think that bad business practices, sloppy responsibilities and buck passing do this industry more injustice and discredit it more than bad Deejay skills!. Certainly disputes regarding Deejays who substitute themselves with other deejays or who pass work around seems to be on the rise in relation to the fact that complaints / disputes bearing some relation in this area seem to be getting more prevalent, back on 2003 / 2004 it was rarely mentioned, now it seems to be the talking point on every forum.

 

Being and acting unprofessionally isn't exclusively limited to performance behind the decks, it can be applied to ones business activities too.

 

If a client books you to do a disco, then IMO unless you are stricken with a debilitating illness or have a family emergency to deal with then YOU should attend. After all, the client chose YOU out of all of the competition and over and above possibly even the person whom you intend to pass the booking too, so you should be flattered, and have the decency to see the booking through.

 

Unfortunately, if you operate in the manner where you secure work for other people under your own name, who then subsequently let you or the client down, then sadly you are 100% responsible for any comeback from the client because it was entirely your decision to subcontract that persons services and so its your responsibility that you got a less than reliable individual to cover / work for you, or didn;t check them out properly, so you inevitably also have to take the flak and any legal or financial comeback.

 

Ultimately the safest way, is always to simply tell the client that you cannot take the booking, but you will pass their details on to another deejay, or better still just give them the other deejays number and let them call, ask the questions and then draw their own conclusions as to their suitability.

 

If you choose not to issue contracts to the deejays who do work under your name, then once again, you are walking a tightrope because the DJ probably realises that you have no comeback, and will be more than likely to mess you about or drop you for a better paying gig, knowing full well that with nothing in writing, there is nothing you can / could do about it!. So ultimately you are left to pacify / compensate the angry client, and the deejay you subcontracted is beyond any action from you, because no contract = no comebacks, whilst the client still has rights against you as their service provider and has some rights which are protected under statutory consumer law.

 

Morale of the story. Always be upfront with the client if you are not able to undertake the booking or if you are taking it with the express intention of passing it on, and ideally put the client directly in touch with the deejay and encourage them to issue their own contracts, and so putting yourself out of the equation, and beyond any comeback, either from the deejay or the client, should things should go wrong.

 

If you do want to emply others to work for you, on a commission basis, or just because business is booming, then once again ensure that the client is fully aware of this, and that you personally will not be attending their function. Also make sure that both your contract to the client and your contract with the deejay are both legal and 100% sound, and its well worth the one-off £100 - £150 that a solicitor would charge you for writing a watertight contract booking terms template to staple to the back of your confirmations.

 

Even if you don't routinely sub-contract out your work, make sure that your booking contract does stipulate what happens to the booking should you become ill, or have an emergency to attend to or get blocked in by snow or 5ft flood water etc.

 

Question:- Jenx, was your friend asked to masqurade as this other Deejay on the night?, in other words, was he aware that the client had not been informed about the booking being passed to them, and that possibly the other DJ had no intention of telling the client.

Edited December 13, 2008 by McCardle

[andyw 0]

And what about any time preparing for the event in its planning stages, or meeting with the client / other DJ in order to discuss the event prior to it being cancelled, and the cost of any phone calls / fuel / labour content in order to carry this out, is this not chargeable in some way, or should he just work in this capacity for nothing?.

 

 

while agree with a lot that as been said ,do we not do these things all the time without securing bookings, when someone phones and ask's for a quote do we not fill out a load of paperwork send it back to them,,and if they decide not to book us all that time is wasted, a gamble that we all take most days and is part of running a bussiness, all of which you have to include when costing your bussiness.although your friend is not at fault it is him that is being chased for the money and in my opinion keeping a good reputation and good will will do more for the bussiness in the long term than the deposit,

Edited December 13, 2008 by andyw

[supersound dj 0]

Mr Jenx my best advise is this.And Ill be blunt

 

I know this is a friend of yours and you want to help him but.................

 

Forget about it.Walk away.

 

The parties got themselves into the mess let them sort it out.

 

However take a lesson and learn from the situation.

 

Also Im sure you have your own probs.....also read Mr McCardles Post on stress.

 

Regards Paul

[Dukesy 0]

So, are you going to advise your friend Jenxy, or walk away?

[Andy Goodtimes 0]

Regardless of anything prior between the first DJ and the client I do not believe the second DJ should have accepted the deposit or the word of the first DJ without contacting the client themselves and introducing himself.

 

If the second DJ is now going to be working for the client they should both be happy with each other and that the arangements are acceptable to both parties.

[TonyB 0]

Personally I think the friend should give the money to the client.

 

Both DJ's were at fault for not telling/contacting the client when there was a change.

 

The client is the innocent party and shouldn't be put through extra hassle because of the errors of the DJ's.

 

Just give them the money back and learn through the experience so it doesn't happen again.

 

 

[DJ JENX 0]

Personally I think the friend should give the money to the client.

 

Both DJ's were at fault for not telling/contacting the client when there was a change.

 

The client is the innocent party and shouldn't be put through extra hassle because of the errors of the DJ's.

 

Just give them the money back and learn through the experience so it doesn't happen again.

Hey guys,

 

Sorry been away, I am telling him to sort it out himself, I told him to contact a solicitor if he needed a legal opinion.

 

I had a funeral this week and it kind of puts things into perspective about priorities

[Kingy 0]

Personally I think the friend should give the money to the client.

 

Both DJ's were at fault for not telling/contacting the client when there was a change.

 

The client is the innocent party and shouldn't be put through extra hassle because of the errors of the DJ's.

 

Just give them the money back and learn through the experience so it doesn't happen again.

 

This is totally correct.

 

FFS boys, you should all be using contracts. End of.