So How Do You Survive?

[McCardle 1]

Following on for another thread, where I used the example of an average payment of £300 charged for a gig, requiring the DJ to work at least 40 gigs a year (before deducting business liabilities and expenses) in order to turnover £12k per year. This would be further increased to 83 gigs @ £300 in order to equate to the national average wage of £479 a week (or £24908 per annum) for a male employee, according to data on the National Statistics website.

 

Source:- http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=285

 

Now I realise that there are people here who charge more than £300 but there are also (according to various polls) those who charge around that figure, and many more who charge as much as 30 - 50% less. If you do charge circa £150, then basically you'll need to double the example figure and do more than 160 gigs per year as a sole occupation in order to reach the national average wage in the UK. Even more challenging for these, as there are only 104 Friday and Saturdays in the year, and so 54 weekdays or Sundays are going to have to be filled too. Either way £300 is just a starting point, a working example for the math and not meant as a challenge or debate.

 

Now, I realise that everybody here is in a different situation to the 'next' DJ, there are some members who are single, there are some in relationships or with familes and those lucky enough to have no mortgage and few, if any debts.

 

However on the flipside:-

 

Based on £300 average example booking fee..lets see where it goes (I know people don't like divulging such information, so lets do my typical living expenses)

 

I would have to do 20 gigs a year just to cover my mortgage,

 

5 gigs to pay my annual council tax.

 

1 gig to pay my house and contents insurance

 

3 gigs to pay insurance, MOT's and tax on 2x Euro 3 class cars

 

1.5 gigs to pay my water rates

 

6 gigs to pay my existing DD payments on Gas and Electricity (might be 7 soon!)

 

18 gigs to pay our annual grocery shopping bill (average of £104 a week x 52 weeks - £5408 / year)

 

So thats 55 gigs (rounded) per year, I would need to do just to pay the most basic of living expenses and 'exist', and that is before the costs of clothing, petrol, shoes, house furnishings and maintenance, phone bills, internet, sky, TV Licence, car servicing, Birthday Presents, Socialising, Eating out and if you have a family - the cost of kids.

 

So 55 gigs before you actually start earning anything for luxuries like holidays. So at what stage of the year is that magical 55 going to be reached and the money you earn start to have a purposes other than eeking out an existance?. March?, June?, August?, November?, 12th of never?

 

Then you also have the normal business expenses too, as the example £300 charged per gig is not all yours and not all destined for your back pocket, because you need to first deduct tax, n.i, pli, pat, music, equipment costs, equipment insurance, marketing as well as possibly accountant fees and probably many other costs which I haven't thought of.

 

So in short, this poll is just a means of finding out who truely is living, breathing and spend as a direct and sole result of their DJ'ing activities and who has a little helping hand, whether it be an additional job, a partner who also works or they have another business activity of some sorts.

 

Incidentally, if you don't work for anybody else, but you do have another form of self employment or your partner is also self employed then this will be considered as another form of employment for the purposes of voting.

Edited January 9, 2009 by McCardle

[YourBigEvent 0]

Other - We are a company with directors, I am a director, so is she.

I also am a sole trader for other things.

[exbutlinred82 0]

I like McCardle....he's a real trier.

 

Have a part-time job with the Government.Because of job-losses we are now deluged with claims to benefit.Been told my job is now vital....very little chance of losing it....would have to commit a real misdemeanour.It was worth hauling myself out of bed the mornings after I had been working late the night before.

 

Would be concerned if DJ ing was my only source of income.By the same token my Brother is a Plasterer and Brother -in-Law a Brickie and thay are struggling like i've never seen before.

[Slimboy Fat 0]

McArdle's post makes depressing reading for anyone who depends on DJing as their main income. In fact, it suggests to me that it is not possible to make a completely *honest* living from the profession.

 

For the guys who do rely on DJing, those extra midweek or Sunday bookings must be absolutely crucial to the success of the venture.

[Bouncy Dancefloor 0]

from my point of view, i wouldnt feel right working just 2 nights a week anyway

 

pickup a midweek residency and itll be better for your income (and be dependable)

imagine £120 on a sunday night thats £6240 a year there!

Pickup a 2nd midweek gig and you are over 12k and still have your weekends spare

[supersound dj 0]

well Ive lived on it for 7 years and struggled but the working familleis tax credit has helped concierably.

 

Times are hard now and my wife has took a job and im changing my stattergey.

 

Paul

[C.S 0]

made a career of it but in later years have had another job too.

[davemoody 0]

The last 5 years I have been able to live comfortably off my earnings from being a DJ.

 

It's taken me a long time to get to this stage and a lot of graft and sweat but it has been worth it.

 

Considering 20 odd years ago I was working for £10 a night and doing 5 hours and now doing mainly weddings all over the UK, an average gig for me pays near the grand mark so it doesnt take many gigs to break even.

 

 

You have to think is it worth the risk in investing any more money in buying more gear and making it look more professional but in my case it paid off.

 

 

Get in with the top hotels, be professional, be friendly, never moan about working late or bad gigs to the people who employ you.

 

Agencies can also help. I am with 4 at the moment and they provide probably about 40% of my gigs for me.

 

 

 

I always get young DJ's ask me for advice and I always say the same thing:

 

NEVER ACCEPT A GIG YOU ARE NOT COMFORTABLE WITH

BE PROFESSIONAL, DRESS SMART, DON'T DRINK ALCOHOL WHILST YOU ARE WORKING

NEVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES TAKE THE MICKEY OUT OF YOUR GUESTS. YOU MIGHT THINK YOU ARE A COMEDIAN BUT BELIEVE ME YOU WILL NEVER BE ACCEPTED AT REPUTABLE TOP ESTABLISHMENTS IF YOU ACT LIKE AN IDIOT.

SERVICE YOUR GEAR REGULARLY

MAKE SURE YOU HAVE AA OR RAC COVER ON YOUR VEHICLE AND KEEP IT CLEAN

ALWAY TURN UP WHEN YOU SAY YOU ARE GOING TO BE THERE

ALWAYS MAKE A POINT OF INTRODUCING YOURSELF AT A NEW VENUE AND ALSO AT THE END OF THE NIGHT THANK THE MANAGEMENT AND STAFF FOR THEIR ASSISTANCE

 

AND ABOVE ALL ENJOY YOURSELF...THE MOMENT YOU ARE JUST DOING IT FOR THE MONEY, STOP DOING IT BECAUSE IT ISN'T FAIR ON THE CLIENT WHO HAS SPENT THEIR HARD EARNED MONEY ON YOU

 

 

 

 

NUFF SAID!!!!!

[McCardle 1]

In fact, it suggests to me that it is not possible to make a completely *honest* living from the profession.

 

I think that it is possible to earn a living from it, as clearly a few people here are already doing, albeit perhaps having to diversify or expand into other related areas a little during lean times.

 

However it is the same in any industry, there are a minority of people who make it big and earn a really good living, and there are the vast majority who slog along in the same old rut, just about making a living or a bit of extra money and envy those who have climbed the corporate ladder. After all, not every grocer becomes Marks and Spencers, Not every travel agent grows to be Thomas Cook and renting out a holiday appartment is not in the same league as being Butlins. A few do get the breaks, or they just get lucky with a series of good decisions, whilst the rest of us just do the best that we can with what we are given.

 

Even assuming 100% profit with somebody being 'dishonest' by not paying expenses such as Tax and buying legit music the upper figures are still not exactly the House of Elliot are they, and as i've said before there are other unskilled 9-5 occupations which may pay equal or even more than ours. This is why i'm surprised when some people seem to think that the cowboys in our industry are doing it to make a fast buck. There is no such thing as a fast buck in this game, to earn a lot of money takes years and years in this industry and is a slow hard slog to obtain a solid word of mouth reputation and to pay off your start up expenses, gear etc - and in some areas there are probably currently 10, 20 or 30 DJ's all chasing the same enquiry, and even more so on the directory sites, which is excellent news for clients because with so many businesses quoting it keeps prices keen and in some cases 'realistic'.

 

However, from the cowboy attraction aspect, there are other industries available which are much more attractive and lucrative to be part of, and many of the get rich quick schemes don't even need the initial outlay in Sound and Lighting equipment that our industry requires. After paying a plumber £300 for a 2 hour job, I know where my sights would be set, if I wanted a quick business idea to earn lots of money as a cowboy before disappearing. Why accept £60 for doing a gig, when I could pose as a builder, take a £3000 deposit for a loft conversion and then never return to complete the job. According to the many TV documentaries, this is the 'in' thing for rip off merchants and cowboys, whilst being a DJ doesn't seem to factor much.

 

pickup a midweek residency and itll be better for your income (and be dependable)

imagine £120 on a sunday night thats £6240 a year there!

Pickup a 2nd midweek gig and you are over 12k and still have your weekends spare

 

Fair comment, and any work is better than no work. However that £120 paid into your hand isn't really all yours is it. You would be paying tax at 22% to the Inland Revenue, thats potentially £22 out of every £100 that you earn is paid directly to the Government, then your N.I liabilities, not to mention paying for the music you buy, the petrol you use to get to and from the venue and all of the other expenses that any legit business needs to pay. Looking at the poll, a lot of people have other occupations as well as this one, which means their personal tax allowance is used up on their main / other employment, and so they are paying tax on every penny they earn from DJing.

 

McArdle's post makes depressing reading for anyone who depends on DJing as their main income

 

Not meant to be depressing, but it is intended to make people think and re-examine their business plans. I get the feeling that a lot of people are starting out with unrealistic expectations of high earnings or fooling themselves that they are attaining them, without first finding out what it is going to cost, and what their ongoing fixed and variable business / expense costs are going to be in the long term. I bet if I were to ask, how much per gig in £ is committed to expenses, that they would not be able to post an answer from the top of their head. The point where your business has covered its costs and where it begins to leave the red and enter the black is important, if you don't know this, then how do you know whether you are charging the client enough to cover your costs and make a profit?.

 

When Hovis bake a loaf, they don't just pluck a figure out of thin air to charge their consumers, they work out a plan whereby they know their expenses, raw material costs, depreciation of equipment and they also factor in the cost of replacement gear of sudden equipment breakdowns and then add what profit margin they need to be running at. We should be doing the same, but on a smaller scale.

 

Its not much good charging £100 for a gig, if your fixed expenses are £100 a gig, as you are working for nothing - if you want to volunteer for a living then there are much more worthy causes available with more sociable hours. Even worse if you are charging £60 and it is costing you £80 in expenses to be there! - just cut out the middleman and send me the £20 for pointing it out to you, and we'll all be happy!.

 

I honestly do think that there are a great number of people out there, who are just being handed £180 for a gig, and they are seeing it as being an £180 gift to spend which ever way they choose. The reality is, that they are actually getting less, a LOT less once they have paid back their expenses. This is mainly why people panic and scrounge around for cash to pay their PAT or PLI costs, and why they begin to worry when the tax man wants his cut, and wonder where all of those £180 gig payments have gone.

 

I could also throw many other things into the arena which come bundled with the 9-5 jobs, such as gauranteed paid holiday, sick pay (in some jobs), Pension Schemes, Private Health Care etc etc. How many are paying / giving themselves these things out of their DJ'ing earnings?.

Edited January 11, 2009 by McCardle

[supersound dj 0]

 

I could also throw many other things into the arena which come bundled with the 9-5 jobs, such as gauranteed paid holiday, sick pay (in some jobs), Pension Schemes, Private Health Care etc etc. How many are paying / giving themselves these things out of their DJ'ing earnings?.

 

 

He's got a point.

 

 

 

Ill get the gun now shall I :booze:

[exbutlinred82 0]

I think most of us are a special breed.We clearly like to be with people.Were we not out being the centre of attention would we be out anyway??Probably yes....for me anyway.

 

Better to be handed a taxable/expense ridden £180....than blowing £80 on a night out with the Missus??

 

Different slant???

[Dukesy 0]

I think what is forgotten is the diversity in our sector. Yes, we're all 'DJs', some may indeed need to be the centre of attention for the type of work they undertake, where others wouldn't succeed if the universe only revolved around them!

But diversity is good, and just as different markets require different service approach, all markets require a level of service, even if the degree of service is varied and wide! smile icon

 

[deejaymitch 0]

I used to make a decent living as a full-time DJ. However working 5 nights a week made me lose my passion for the job and I really started to resent it. When I started as a DJ i really enjoyed it and, if I was going to do a job I hated, I thought it might as well be an office job with a secure income, pension etc. So I am now a lowly civil servant and part time DJ. I'm earning less money than when I was a full-time DJ but I now get paid holidays, have jo security and, most importantly, am slowly starting to enjoy being a DJ again as I can be a lot fussier about what bookings I take.

 

It is definitely possible to make a legitimate living as a full-time DJ, but it's very unlikely that it's going to make you rich, or even comfortable. It definitely does take a special type of person to do this job (and a very understanding partner/family).

[Slimboy Fat 0]

It is definitely possible to make a legitimate living as a full-time DJ, but it's very unlikely that it's going to make you rich, or even comfortable. It definitely does take a special type of person to do this job (and a very understanding partner/family).

 

That's about the best summary of life as a Dj that I've yet seen Mitch.

 

I would love nothing more than to make the jump over to full-time DJ but it would depend so much on dropping on a couple of decent midweek residencies.

 

[RonanRaver 0]

Im just djing at the moment fulltime.I am renting an apartment with a friend and i also look after my sons welfare school/bills clothes etc and of course see him whenever i want.

Currently working four nights a week,around 6/7 months ago i lost my sun nite gig.I want to do some part time day work but i really don't know what to do.I am not a 9-5 person and would hate an office environment but this year is going to be a bad one.

 

I maybe able to get some work as a spinner on a radio station which i Presented on before which at the moment is the only obvious part time work.

 

[McCardle 1]

I am quite surprised that only 2 members so far (when posting this) have indicated that they make a living from DJ'ing solely and have no other income.

 

Even more surprising, is that 0 people voted (at the time of posting) that DJ'ing was the sole income in relation to living in a family unit or with a partner. Does this mean that DJ'ing does perhaps not earn enough on its own to maintain a family or meet the expenses of a couple and that in the majority both partners have to either work, or the DJ'ing has to be secondary to another occupation.

 

This is a revelation really, as I have self employed friends who have no additional incomes, and whose partners are full time parents.

 

So would it be safe to say that providing enough income from being a DJ to raise a family was perhaps not impossible, but was extremely hard to do, in comparison of working for oneself in other industries, such as being a car mechanic, plumber, builder, joiner.

 

Of course, one poll isn't representative of the whole industry in general, but even I expected a more divided range of results and perhaps more people earning a living from full time Djing than has been voted.

Edited January 21, 2009 by McCardle

[milhouse 0]

I'm a full time DJ and... I live all by myself!

 

Sounds depressing doesn't it! However an increasing number of my friends my own age (mid-late 20s) do the same. I even have a lovely quayside apartment and DJing has been my sole income for many years. The mortgage was probably the biggest challenge I've faced.

 

I however would not like to raise a family or support a wife based on this income alone. My plan in the next few years is to pursue a career in the police force and hang up my headphones. I'm already working towards this as a volunteer for the police now.

 

For now, however, with no dependents and with being young I enjoy doing what I'm doing. There is a huge risk in being soley self employed, however I have reduced this risk by running a tight ship and spreading my work over several companies. I work hard, and stick to my particular market (student/young city bars and clubs).

 

The problem with getting a 'proper' job will be losing my current lifestyle of working just 6 hours a night (albeit 7 nights a week) and somewhat of a pay-cut. However the security, pension, and other benefits would outweigh this in the long run.

 

Someone earlier mentionned working 5 nights a week was too much and they lost the passion for the job. At 7 nights a week I haven't reached that phase... yet... and I go to work every night absolutely loving what I'm doing, and because I work soley on residencies I know everyone I work with. I even manage to hold down some decent relationships although they tend to be with females also working in the same night-time bar and club sector! I think a relationship with someone who works days would be a challenge.

 

from my point of view, i wouldnt feel right working just 2 nights a week anyway

 

pickup a midweek residency and itll be better for your income (and be dependable)

imagine £120 on a sunday night thats £6240 a year there!

Pickup a 2nd midweek gig and you are over 12k and still have your weekends spare

 

Or do 7 nights a week and wahey! Most city bars and clubs have DJs 7 nights a week. Some, yes, will pay £70 mid-week. But £70 on a Tuesday for, say, 5 hours work? Its all possible. Then do you're £150+ nights on a weekend. Getting your foot in the door is the only hurdle really. Some chains (the walkabouts of the world) will pay weekend fee's even mid-week.

Edited January 21, 2009 by JonWhittaker

[biggav 0]

I live with my wife and our 4 kids, I'm A full time, Self employed Plumber, I have been a retained firefighter for the last 9 years but i'm finishing that at the end of march... I got the PA system and lighting for my band and this kind of escalated from there.... i used to do disco's for free :scared: up until about 6 months ago when i decided to stop all together as i was sick of it... then someone asked me and i said.. "yes but it's £200" and they said "OK" the rest is history. I'm now doing most weekends at £250 a night for discos and 650 for the band