Mixer Levels

[Lag1Rich 0]

The problem I seem to get is simpaly when listning/cueing a song to play next, the PFL level is always in the red although the output levels are in the green/yellow area and there is no distortion on my ear phones!!

 

Whats going wrong? Thanks Rich..

[superstardeejay 0]

Nothing, some mixers are like this, the cue VU is the absolute level, the output VU level is after the channel faders, EQ and master fader..thats probably why. Some channel faders are at unity gain when full-up, some give it boost full up and hit the 0dB mark about 3/4 of the way up....etc, etc. And some cheaper DJ grade mixers have appalling calibration anyhow!

 

 

[Bouncy Dancefloor 0]

if your mixer has gain control on each channel, turn these down

[Lag1Rich 0]

Nothing, some mixers are like this, the cue VU is the absolute level, the output VU level is after the channel faders, EQ and master fader..thats probably why. Some channel faders are at unity gain when full-up, some give it boost full up and hit the 0dB mark about 3/4 of the way up....etc, etc. And some cheaper DJ grade mixers have appalling calibration anyhow!

 

if your mixer has gain control on each channel, turn these down

 

I tried this last night, But no luck as yet! I do see supersardeejay's point in other words the PFL metere is basicly showing its peak record level?? I do fined this makes a bit of sence!!

 

Nothing to worry about, Thanks Rich

[djgorey 0]

if your mixer has gain control on each channel, turn these down

 

As Bouncy said, if your cue levels are showing red, turn the gain on that channel down. The lights are showing the input level so you don't want them in the red as it will already be distorting before it gets to the eq and all the rest

[superstardeejay 0]

I have to say that some mixers show PFL in the red even with the gains all the way down!

[RobbieD 0]

The problem I seem to get is simpaly when listning/cueing a song to play next, the PFL level is always in the red although the output levels are in the green/yellow area and there is no distortion on my ear phones!!

 

Whats going wrong? Thanks Rich..

I would guess that you have the master volume turned down.

 

Let's take it from the begining:

if your mixer has gain control on each channel, turn these down

Spot on.

 

The channel gain is there to set the input levels of different sources and tracks so that they are at the optimum level for the mixer. This is peaking at 0dB on your meters.

 

Assuming the above has been done, once a slider is up the output meter level will depend on the setting of the master volume. Again optimum is peaking at 0dB (but of course durring the early part of an evening you may have the master volume lower, peaking below 0dB).

 

The amp gains can then be set so that with the mixer peaking at 0dB, the amps are below clipping. It's useful to mark that point on your amp's gain controls. (At smaller functions you may want to turn the amps down further to limit the maximum volume. But if durring the night you want more volume, turn the amps up rather than running the mixer to far above 0dB.)

 

[Andy Dunn 0]

Correct me if I have taken your post the wrong way,but just to clarify:

 

The controls on the front of an amplifier are not gain controls!!!

 

Yes I know they are potentiometers and they are not volume controls which is what I meant to say!!

 

Too many exams in one day is my excuse and now I am going for a lie down in a dark room

[Bouncy Dancefloor 0]

amplifiers should not even be on this thread, this is about the mixer!

[RobbieD 0]

The controls on the front of an amplifier are not gain controls!!!

What are they then?

 

amplifiers should not even be on this thread, this is about the mixer!

I thought Rich may appreciate the full gain staging explanation.

 

Excuse me for posting off topic. :hurt:

Edited January 12, 2009 by RobbieD

[heheshamon 0]

The problem I seem to get is simpaly when listning/cueing a song to play next, the PFL level is always in the red although the output levels are in the green/yellow area and there is no distortion on my ear phones!!

 

Whats going wrong? Thanks Rich..

 

Think I'm getting the same thing mate I've only just bought my new mixer and don't know if it's faulty or not it's very annoying when your mixing through headphones!!!

 

Here's my problem if anyone can tell me whether its a faulty mixer if its not then does the behringer vmx1000 with the induvidual channel meters give a better reading?

 

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=MGZBRIwf_P0&...re=channel_page

[superstardeejay 0]

I cant see your problem really! When your monitor pot is at 'cue' then you can level your meter at 0db with the channel gains, when you swing the monitor pot over to O/P (output) then the meter increases into the red. Isnt this because the master fader just needs coming down a bit? Master faders often have more than unity gain as already mentioned when pushed up. The Citronic faders will usually have a thick line about 3/4 of the way up, dont push them any further than this and the output should stay around the 0dB mark. ANy higher and the channels are acting as amplifiers.

 

 

 

 

 

[heheshamon 0]

I cant see your problem really! When your monitor pot is at 'cue' then you can level your meter at 0db with the channel gains, when you swing the monitor pot over to O/P (output) then the meter increases into the red. Isnt this because the master fader just needs coming down a bit? Master faders often have more than unity gain as already mentioned when pushed up. The Citronic faders will usually have a thick line about 3/4 of the way up, dont push them any further than this and the output should stay around the 0dB mark. ANy higher and the channels are acting as amplifiers.

 

Thanks for the reply I see your point forgive me as I've not been djing that long.

 

I've tried reducing the main output but then I get high reading in pfl and low reading in output am I missing something here?

[djgorey 0]

I've tried reducing the main output but then I get high reading in pfl and low reading in output am I missing something here?

 

Yes you are!

 

The "PFL" (stands for Pre-Fade Listen) reading that you refer to is the input level of the signal coming from the CD or laptop that you have. This and the output reading are two separate things to be considered totally independently of each other. It's all about (as was mentioned earlier) setting up the correct gain structure so you get the best signal/noise ratio possible.

 

First of all, with your faders all the way down (channel and master) play a track with the meters showing the input level. This should be peaking at 0dB so if it is showing red you need to reduce the gain on that channel. Almost every cd will have a different level, so to ensure the best signal/noise ratio, you should be checking the input level when cuing up the track.

 

Once you have made sure that the input level is correct, you can then sort out the output level; again, making sure that you peak at 0dB.

 

Once that is done you just set the amps to the level you need for the event.

[heheshamon 0]

Yes you are!

 

The "PFL" (stands for Pre-Fade Listen) reading that you refer to is the input level of the signal coming from the CD or laptop that you have. This and the output reading are two separate things to be considered totally independently of each other. It's all about (as was mentioned earlier) setting up the correct gain structure so you get the best signal/noise ratio possible.

 

First of all, with your faders all the way down (channel and master) play a track with the meters showing the input level. This should be peaking at 0dB so if it is showing red you need to reduce the gain on that channel. Almost every cd will have a different level, so to ensure the best signal/noise ratio, you should be checking the input level when cuing up the track.

 

Once you have made sure that the input level is correct, you can then sort out the output level; again, making sure that you peak at 0dB.

 

Once that is done you just set the amps to the level you need for the event.

 

Sorted thanks for your help the master just needed putting down to 9 must be set wrong by citronic but hopefully now I can do a mix without the levels being all over the place.

 

Thanks again.

[djgorey 0]

Sorted thanks for your help the master just needed putting down to 9 must be set wrong by citronic but hopefully now I can do a mix without the levels being all over the place.

 

Thanks again.

 

Cool - so now you've got it peaking at 0dB on both input and out-put? You never did say what mixer it was! I've got a Citronic 10:4 and that's how I set up my mixer. It's also how it is explained in the manual.

 

The benefit of setting up the input level properly when cuing the track is that a) you know that it should be the same volume as the track that's fading out with the fader in the same position so you don't get any nasty surprises and b) it means that you can trust the out-put meter in terms of volume. This in turn means that you don't keep on turning it up and up as your ears get used to the sound level as the night wears on. You can follow the lights (they're so pretty) and know that the volume is correct.

[heheshamon 0]

Cool - so now you've got it peaking at 0dB on both input and out-put? You never did say what mixer it was! I've got a Citronic 10:4 and that's how I set up my mixer. It's also how it is explained in the manual.

 

The benefit of setting up the input level properly when cuing the track is that a) you know that it should be the same volume as the track that's fading out with the fader in the same position so you don't get any nasty surprises and b) it means that you can trust the out-put meter in terms of volume. This in turn means that you don't keep on turning it up and up as your ears get used to the sound level as the night wears on. You can follow the lights (they're so pretty) and know that the volume is correct.

 

Yep got the same mixer cdm10:mk4 not bad for the money I would like to go all out and get the pioneers but I think the other half would notice £3k out of the bank lol.

[djgorey 0]

Yep got the same mixer cdm10:mk4 not bad for the money I would like to go all out and get the pioneers but I think the other half would notice £3k out of the bank lol.

 

Right! That makes it a lot easier to advise! Yes, you do it the same way I said before. Flip the headphone dial thingy over to PFL and use the gain on the channel to make sure that the input level is peaking at 0dB and then, during playing, flip it back to output and make sure that it peaks at 0dB, then set your amp level to get the volume you need.

 

I've heard that the newer Pioneers aren't all that. The mixer I want is the Formula Sound FF6000, but, like you, I think I would have to convince the better half that it was for "us"!

[Dukesy 0]

Side tracking I know, but Pioneer produces a 6 channel professional grade mixer (which has awesome sound quality) and allows a single cable digital connection to the EFX-1000 (effects unit), the DJM-1000. Worth a listen!

http://www.pioneer.co.uk/images/products/mixer/pioneer/djm1000angle_large.jpg