ChrisPointon 0 Posted December 21, 2003 Report Share Posted December 21, 2003 The Musicians Union is now accepting D.J's into their organisation, with many benefits including £10m Public Liability Insurance. Membership fees are based on your annual turnover as a D.J, but for around £78 - £200 a Year you can get:- Upto £10m Public Liability Cover Legal and contract advice including dealing with agencies Career Advice Contract Advice and Forms A free Diary (Useful at this time of year) The knowledge of being in a union Help with debt recovery from non paying clients Their fees are on a tiered scale depending on how much you earn from your D.J'ing activities, however having just been quoted £145 for £5m PLI insurance from another company it is worth it for the £10m PLI cover alone, even before considering the many other benefits. They also accept Younger Members,and Students under 21 and earning less than £7500 a year will only pay £33 - £36 for a years membership!. So my advice? Stop dreaming and waiting for a dedicated DJ's union to be formed and bite the bullet and apply to the MU for membership!. Don't bother sending emails, just go straight to their registration form and apply. The D.D form takes around 4 days to arrive and then you are a confirmed member within 2 weeks of sending the documents back. It's all quite hassle free and well worth it. The Musicians Union Website can be found HERE Link to post Share on other sites
DJshaggy 0 Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 I have been a member now for two years, BUT yes they do accept DJs but only 'scratch djs and club djs' not mobile jocks. they tell me my insurance is void whilst doing mobile work as its out side of their insurance policy http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/014.gif also since i have been a member every time you get the MUsican magazine all it does its argue if a dj is a true musican or not, and when you go to meetings they do tend to look down on you and treat you in a different way if they know your a dj BUT tell them your a trumpet player or guitarist they love you hehe If it aint got that Swing, it Dont mean a thing!! Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisPointon 0 Posted December 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 QUOTE have been a member now for two years, BUT yes they do accept DJs but only 'scratch djs and club djs' not mobile jocks. they tell me my insurance is void whilst doing mobile work as its out side of their insurance policy I'll be very interested in seeing the wording of this policy. I have been upfront with them regarding my activities as a MOBILE D.J at every opportunity, and if it appears that my membership has been accepted, without notification of this fact then in essence the membership has been mis-sold to me!. In which case i'll be knocking on their door for a full refund. I have taken a snapshot of their website and still have the membership forms, and nowhere can I see any point where it says that my PLI will be voided by my activities as a MOBILE D.J. For what it's worth i've also emailed them a link to this tread so they can explain....but I won't hold my breath!. QUOTE and when you go to meetings they do tend to look down on you and treat you in a different way if they know your a dj I'm going to my first meeting at Stoke-On-Trent next month, just let them try!. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/188.gif Link to post Share on other sites
YourBigEvent 0 Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif Due to your height Chris most people look down at you http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif .....but what do I know ? Your Big Event Office:01803 813540 Direct: 0797 0717 448 e.mail:info@yourbigevent.co.uk Link to post Share on other sites
Peteee 0 Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 well i'm not aware of any such restriction but if you find there is let me know as i will be very p$ssed off as will they if it turns out to be the case! Peteee N U F C Yea.... Link to post Share on other sites
mikeee 0 Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 I'm going to forward this thread to a friend of mine, who happens to be the branch secretary for Surrey & NE Hants, to see if I can get some "Official" feed back. ..playing all the hits for you... ....whether you may be.... Why can't I see what i going on??? Link to post Share on other sites
mikeee 0 Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 I think I did mention somewhere before, that technically the MU accept DJ's who Mix, because that technically makes them musicians. If i'd thought it was that straight forward, I would have advised all the TVDJA members to join the MU ..playing all the hits for you... ....whether you may be.... Why can't I see what i going on??? Link to post Share on other sites
DJshaggy 0 Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 QUOTE (Chris_Pointon @ Dec 22 2003, 05:15 PM)I'm going to my first meeting at Stoke-On-Trent next month, just let them try!. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/188.gif GO GET 'EM!! The DJ = musicain thing has been going on for years and years now and doesnt seem to show any resolve. in the MU mag a while ago they had a HUGE! article on the argument for and against and made very interesting reading. such comments that made me laugh were something along the lines of 'if you bang your turntable with a stick that makes you a musican, so then why does moving the needle around the record to make music suddenly mean your not a musican' as i say it is a very good argument. i must admit i use my £10,000,000 PLI cover whilst doing mobile work and luckily never have had to use it! but i do recall the conversation with my local branch agents telling me that it was outside of the agrement. i do hope this gets cleared up its still very foggy to me If it aint got that Swing, it Dont mean a thing!! Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Forsyth 0 Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Hi everyone, My twopence worth, as I'm currently shopping for insurance the MU looked good. Saw the grey area so decided to phone them for clarification - it seems the acceptance is for turntableists and not for Dj's that are not "creating" and just playing music. So it looks like it's a no no. I might just try the psa - Proffesional Sales Association - which is affiliated to the msf (2nd biggest union in the country) - I used to be in sales and still am with the disco I guess - these guys helped me fight a termination of contract battle that netted me a great settlement. Will let everyone know what comes out of it. Cheers Vinnie http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/thumbup.gif Paul Forsyth The DJ formally known as Vinnie Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisPointon 0 Posted January 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Slippery Bastards at the MU aren't they!. Maybe we should get a petition up and I'll send it with the nasty recorded delivery letter i'm about to send to them cancelling my membership http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/221.gif . They accepted my membership under the terms which I signed up, I have scanned both the website and paperwork sent to me, and I can't see any mention of exclusion of certain area's of the entertainment industry, nor did anybody contact me with regard to my stated profession - MOBILE DJ and mention that any PLI would be invalidated. In other words they are seriously misleading people, and I really think that it is grossly remiss of an organisation - reputed to be a professional union, to allow certain area's of its membership to go and perform under the impression that they are insured...when they have no cover whatsoever http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/excl.gif . Musicians Union???...Bloody Laughable incompetants. If you have signed up recently, or are already a member of the MU and are a DJ then cancel it and tell them where they can shove their violins. Your membership isn't worth the paper its written on - I'm now going to inform my bank to cancel my Direct Debit and then I'm going to find other area's of the 'net where I can publically slag them off http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/188.gif . Not accepting members who don't meet certain criteria and clearly informing them BEFORE they pay is one thing, but to happily taking your money and then failing to provide the basics offered is little more than a rip off and pure discrimination, and I'm happily going to tell them so, in no uncertain terms!. Link to post Share on other sites
DJshaggy 0 Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 being both a DJ and as a'musican' (trumpet player) by the trad sense of things i do think the music world and unions should wake up and come into the 21st century. as i have said above this fight 'is the DJ a musician' has been going on for years now when will it end?? If it aint got that Swing, it Dont mean a thing!! Link to post Share on other sites
DJshaggy 0 Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 makes me wonder if you could register as say a guitar player and take your guitar with you and if anything happend say you were running it though your disco p.a. at the time. that makes the insurance valid in my books lol if they want to play the game so can we! If it aint got that Swing, it Dont mean a thing!! Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisPointon 0 Posted January 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Trouble is Ben - the Law favours the Insurance companies and you can never really win if they dispute a claim or say that your insurance is void. Even if you were in the right, it would take a good solicitor, a lot of money and a long court battle to prove it. In the meantime you would be left with a void insurance policy, and the possibility of being sued for any claim personally. People have been trying to cheat the wording and conditions of their motor insurance policies for tens of years, and I have yet to meet anybody who has fought them and won. Link to post Share on other sites
YourBigEvent 0 Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Any news on DJ's yet Chris ? .....but what do I know ? Your Big Event Office:01803 813540 Direct: 0797 0717 448 e.mail:info@yourbigevent.co.uk Link to post Share on other sites
mikeee 0 Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 I have passed on the info from this site to the branch Secretary of the MU for my area, and he is taking it up with the head office in London for clarification. It does appear to be a grey area. I was told when they originally started taking on DJ's, you had to be able to prove that you were "creating" new music out of one / two existing songs - ie. MIXING. But even my man Glenn is not 100% sure of the current situation. I do know the MU are losing members, so they will probably try anything to get the numbers up. The drop you ask your self, 44,000 to 37,000 members. Now if you would like £10M PLI cover, Not a problem, I just need a minimum of 15,000 members of the NADJ - http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/laugh.gif At the moment the best I can offer is £2M = £100, £5M = £150. Will let you know the minute I get answers ..playing all the hits for you... ....whether you may be.... Why can't I see what i going on??? Link to post Share on other sites
Loz 0 Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 I filled in an application form to join the MU and there's a section which asks you what type of instrument you play. Obviously being a DJ I don't have any skills in the string and percussion areas although I'm fairly good in the Wind section but not from the mouth!! Anyway moving on, there is a box with cd players next to it which I ticked and sent the form back. I've just received a phone call today on my mobile asking me about creating music, as mentioned prevoiusly, they asked me if I did any mixing or scratching as they could'nt let me join just as a DJ. So being an honest man I said no I don't do anything like that.Had I said yes then it would have been classed as "creating music" and I would've been accepted, so take note. Then I was asked about singing, so quick thinking I said yes I do karaoke!!! "thats fine "I was told "you come under the vocal section". Phew!!!! got away with it. So to anyone thinking about joining up you're best option is to say you do mixing and sampling or you could try the karaoke thing like I did. Hope this hepls. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/beer.gif Party to the Max, With Happy Traxx Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisPointon 0 Posted January 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 Actually I put "Not Applicable to my area of entertainment" in the instruments section, so I'm well overdue a phone call http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/mad.gif. It seemed they accepted this. Link to post Share on other sites
Peteee 0 Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 I have taken this matter forward to the General Secretary of the MU and am awaiting a response When I joined I was told yes we now take Dj's I find they are splitting hairs with all this scratch and mixing crap Either they want DJ's or they don't and yea I do karaoke but the test would be a claim would they stand by you if on the night you were just DJ'ing or would they start all this debate again I will let you know the out come They should make their minds up we are all in the music business whether they like it or not http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/1106.gif Peteee N U F C Yea.... Link to post Share on other sites
mikeee 0 Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 I've passed Loz's post to the branch secretary, But i think i did warn you about this months ago. "Musicians" still don't like DJ's and probably never will, but as part of their "forward" thinking plan ( http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/laugh.gif ) if you create a new song, albeit, from two "old" songs, you are classified as a Musician. So, I put it to you again, A dedicated association for DJ's, i'm listerning. Straight PLI £100 = £2M, £150 = £5M. and as part of the change between TVDJA and NADJ we are offering a membership of £45.00 that takes you throu to March 2005. ..playing all the hits for you... ....whether you may be.... Why can't I see what i going on??? Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisPointon 0 Posted January 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 Mikeee, I would love to be able to offer you 1200 New Members but it never works like that does it http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/smile.gif . However if you want, i'm happy to include leaflets promoting the benefits of the NADJ with purchases made from me http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/smile.gif . Simply forward me a supply of the leaflet you want including and i'll do the rest. I already do the same with DJU to non members of the forum, so it won't be a big deal to implement. The same applies to banner linking, if the NADJ has a banner then email it to me and i'll link from the CSL Site to you. Simple. Link to post Share on other sites
DJshaggy 0 Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 Regarding the musican DJ thing with the MU, i have been informed by my local brance that there will be a national ballet regarding the matter once again in the next few months.... i dont expect anything will change though can you send me some information on the NADJ by any chance?? cheers If it aint got that Swing, it Dont mean a thing!! Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Stuart 0 Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 QUOTE national ballet Swan Lake ? http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/071.gif Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisPointon 0 Posted January 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 QUOTE i have been informed by my local brance that there will be a national ballet regarding the matter. Yes, I can imagine them dressing up in pink tutu's and parading around a room http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/smile.gif , they may even find time for a ballot!. No doubt that there are more musicians than D.J's in their membership and given the attitude that most musicians show to D.J's, I hardly think it's worth bothering with - I'm sure that we can guess the result. Of course, they will be giving a pro-rata / full refund to their D.J members should they vote in favour of kicking us out won't they?? - hmmm I feel a strongly worded letter of complaint to the National Union's Ombudsman coming on http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif, and was it the Mail on Sunday which had that "Raw Deal" column??. I hate been taken for a ride and misled, which is what the M.U appears to be doing in the respect of the D.J. Are we lessor forms of life?. The class system and descrimination is indeed alive and well, in the Victorian attitude that is the Musicians Union. Link to post Share on other sites
DJshaggy 0 Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 lol i noticed that too but was too lazy to change it... i would make up an excuse saying that the E is too close to th O but even my fat fingers cant account for being just being thick! lol If it aint got that Swing, it Dont mean a thing!! Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisPointon 0 Posted January 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 I think in view of the Primadonna attitude which seems to be shown to us by the M.U, your own parapraxis is quite valid as well as amusing Ben. http://www.haverford.edu/psych/ddavis/p109g/fslip.jpg Link to post Share on other sites
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