Amp Help Please! ***newbie:cense:

[s24dms 0]

hi all,

 

as you guessed im a newbie to the djing world.

 

Getting straight to the point!........

 

:cense:I have 2 x intimidation speakers (12" + tweeter) as my mid bass (vocal) and treble (sound sweet)

 

:cense: 2 x Jbl 15" subs (car subs 250rms each) in bass box (dj bin that is - NOT CAR SUB BOX )

 

:cense: 1 x 15" Bass bin with 250 rms also.

 

I have tested the exuipment using 2 home amps running together connecting them through headphone (output) to a jack to phono connection... basically to produce enough power to run this all...... however understanibly they overheat...

 

(1) My question is.........I want to buy a proper dj amp .. .. .. budget is between £400 and £600.... need to run the lot... will i require 2 amps again or does the 1 dj amp power the lot? i need tweeter mid and bass to accomodate anything from 20-350 ppl from a house party up to a proper professional wedding / party hall? i will purchase from HTFR (HARD TO FIND RECORDS) as they are local to me in bham....

 

(2) my jbl subs which are boxed dont come with that funny xlr socket just a minus and plus in red and black. how do i fix that?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Msg me if needed @:

 

mydj@hotmail.co.uk thanks again

 

 

[djgorey 0]

This is actually going to take quite a lot of advice but first up and easiest to get out of the way is that, since you don't say whether you have any passive crossovers in the bass cabinets, you'll probably want to run two separate amps - one for bass and one for mid/hi. A budget of £400-£600 will get you some decent amps either second hand or, for example, 2 Matrix UKP1300 and buy you a dbx 2 way stereo crossover as well.

 

Regarding your speakers - the single 15" bass bin and the two 12" tops are fine as they are and, in the first instance, I would buy one amp and run the tops from one channel and the bass bin from another.

 

Regarding the 2 jbl 15" car speakers in a box. How are they wired up? Are the speakers wired in parrallel or series? What is the stated impedence of the speaker(s)? Normally, car speakers have low impedence to get the power they need from a 12v supply. These are things that you will have to consider because if, as is quite possible, you have two jbls are 4 ohms each wired in parrallel, then you have a 2 ohm cabinet and a lot of amplifiers don't go that low.

 

Re the "funny xlr thing". For speakers nowadays, you would not want to use XLR anyway, but what is known as a "Speakon" socket. It is easy enough to get from somewhere like Maplins or CPC, make the cut out in the cabinet and wire up the socket.

 

Hope all this helps, if you want some more, just yell. One thing I would say is that please please please do not attempt 350 people in a big hotel with what you have at the moment; just give it a bit of time to get the gear together and get stuff sorted

Edited March 10, 2009 by djgorey

[digitaldistortion 0]

Re the "funny xlr thing". For speakers nowadays, you would not want to use XLR anyway, but what is known as a "Speakon" socket. It is easy enough to get from somewhere like Maplins or CPC, make the cut out in the cabinet and wire up the socket.

 

I can't speak for others on the forum, but I would oppose that 100%!

 

Give me good XLR connectors anyday to Speakon. I don't find them stable enough!

 

[djgorey 0]

Really?! Fair enough. Whether you go for XLR or speakon, the cutout in the cabinet is the same and they're just as easy to wire up as each other.

[s24dms 0]

hi, i dont have a clue about ohms / impedance / parallel wiring connections etc.... take a look at below link... these are the exact ones i purchased from the htfr (hard to find records) store....

 

For my mid and tweeter (x 2)

http://www.htfr.com/more-info/MR273031

INTIMIDATION AKA 112 - 300 WATT SPEAKERS

 

as my single (x 1) bass bin i purchased.

http://www.htfr.com/more-info/MR176388

MR176388 - (skytek) MOBILE DJ (BLACK) 15" - 200 WATT SUBWOOFER

 

And also the seperate subs x 2 (car subs now in dj bass box)

http://www.thebassbin.co.uk/product.php?id=746

GT4-15 - 15" subwoofer

 

Please advice me on a suitable and very powerful amp (budget £400 -- £600). from this site www.htfr.com to power the lot... and also giving me extra power to add possibly 1 further speaker like the intimidation in future.

 

going back to my car subs... on my first post i mentioned xlr?... i was trying to say speakon but hey im new to it so fgive me... i have already ordered the speakon adapters from ebay!! thx regarding that!! as they currently have plus and minus in red n black.

 

I hope the above links work and if not... please do a search for the make and models on google??...

 

for me your reply is a MASSIVE HELP!!

 

thanks again in advance.

 

[superstardeejay 0]

I would ditch the car speakers. In my experience they sound awful used in a disco setup, they are tuned for use in the confined space of a car (!) and I doubt they'll be loaded properly in PA-sized enclosures. You'll probably find that as you turn the volume up they'll over-excurse and fail.

 

 

[TonyB 0]

A very powerful amp would most likely reduce your stack of speakers to pile of smoldering embers!

 

You need to look at the RMS value. The INTIMIDATION AKA 112 are 150w RMS. I would be reluctant to put much more power into those speakers than that.

 

With regards to the car subs in a DJ box, was the box designed for the speakers? Probably unlikely as they are not designed to be put in PA enclosures and as superstardeejay mentioned, they probably won't last long. Do they have a built in crossover? You will need a crossover if you intend to connect them to the Intimidations. They are also 4 Ohms which complicates matters further.

 

The Skytec bass bin on its own doesn't really come into it. You have two channels and really need to have the same on both. Not sure if the details on the website are correct as I have a pair of the same ones and they are 150w RMS. Adding a fifth passive speakers on its own is impractical as is powering six speakers off one amp (can be done but not really with what you have).

 

As it stands, there is no "acceptable" way to connect together what you have to one amplifier. The only possible way is to use two amplifiers, one for the Intimidations and one for the bass bins and use an active crossover between the mixer and amps. The power ratings of the amps that your present speakers can handle would mean that when you get better speakers, you would also probably have to get better amps.

 

You would have been better off spending the money on a better pair of speakers and an amp to start with and then adding proper bass bins later.

 

So the chances of anyone recommending a suitable and very powerful amp (budget £400 -- £600). from this site www.htfr.com to power the lot... and also giving me extra power to add possibly 1 further speaker like the intimidation in future. is extremely unlikely.

[djgorey 0]

First of all, I have sent you a PM.

 

TonyB is right.

 

The Intimidation tops are 150w RMS and, in this instance, I would not recommend an amp that does more than that on each channel at 8 ohms. The bass bins are 200w RMS and whilst, traditionally, bins can generally handle a clean signal of double the RMS, I would not try it with those bins.

 

Get rid of the car ones - they're probably wired in parrallel resulting in a 2 Ohm cabinet, which is not the best way of running amps, even if they are capable of it. They are also very inefficient so, in combination with the low power handling, will just not be loud enough.

 

The way I would move forward with the gear you have (if you didn't want to get rid of it and start again) is:

 

Get another bass bin, possibly the same as you have if you like it, and then get, for instance, a Matrix UKP1300. You would connect the bins to the tops so you have amp>>bass bin>>top on each side. The amp would "see" a 4 ohm load, which is fine and have a power handling of 350w RMS each side. The amp would be putting out 650w a side so is slightly over-powered. You would have to be careful not to blow up the speakers so make sure that you have a clean signal at all times as a clipped signal at that sort of power will kill your speakers.

 

This will cost you less than £300 and I live just down the road from Matrix so can sort that out for you.

 

As and when you have the cash (if you still want to stick with the intimidation stuff), get another 2 bass bins and another amp (one that does, say, 200w per side at 8 Ohms). You then run a pair of bins on each side of the UKP1300 and the tops on the smaller amp.

 

Hope this helps - no doubt others will have different opinions and make different suggestions.

 

[s24dms 0]

HI,

 

thax for the advice guys..

 

looking at the suggestions .... dont ask me why but i like the equipment and it sounds loud and bass-ey :)

 

The whole system has been tested on my home audio amps (as its surround) >> the connection i used for the test was as follows >>

 

(pioneer cdj 400 >> numark mixex >> amp 1 (output thru the headphone socket) >> amp 2 >> speakers as above.

 

basically i linked the two amps up using a jack to phono lead. from headphone out to a amp input.

 

It sounded sweet and bass was fine. understandibly the amp overheats after a bit.

 

Would i be better getting an upgrade on home amps instead, as the current setup on a PA amp looks like i would have to start from scractH????

[Dream Catchers 0]

When you test things at home it doesn't reflect what it will sound like at a function unfortunately.

What appears loud in a 14 foot living room will be pretty quiet in a 200 foot function room with 100 guests in it.

A home hifi amp isnt any comparison to what you need to do a disco.

 

Jim

Edited March 11, 2009 by JimBoylan

[djgorey 0]

When you test things at home it doesn't reflect what it will sound like at a function unfortunately.

What appears loud in a 14 foot living room will be pretty quiet in a 200 foot function room with 100 guests in it.

A home hifi amp isnt any comparison to what you need to do a disco.

 

Jim

 

Jim's spot on - there is a world of difference in the set-up of a hi-fi amp compared to a PA amp (although the basic principle is the same). When you connected the second amp to the first via the headphone socket, you were not getting any extra power to the second amp - you might as well have just plugged the speakers into the first amp and done away with the second. Also, that's not the best way to ensure a long life for your hi-fi.

 

If the amps were "overheating a bit" just whilst you tested them, imagine what they'll do with 3 hours of back ground music and 2-3 hours of loud disco music. They won't last - in fact they'll die fairly quickly and fairly permanently.

 

You don't have to start from scratch. My suggestion earlier re getting another bass bin like the one you have and an amp that puts out about 400w per side at 4 ohms will allow you to start doing small gigs and was well under your budget.

 

I've PM'd you my phone number and am happy to have a chat with you tonight

Edited March 11, 2009 by djgorey

[Andy Dunn 0]

Really?! Fair enough. Whether you go for XLR or speakon, the cutout in the cabinet is the same and they're just as easy to wire up as each other.

 

Not quite actually,the speakons require a slightly larger hole to get them to fit!

[dj will 0]

If I were you I would ditch all of the speakers and spend the amp money on a pair of full range speakers such as the Warrior Audio PSR15A - active speakers 450W RMS includes speaker covers £449 from http://www.htfr.com/more-info/MR205773

but that is a just a suggestion and that are lots of other speakers you could pick up for under £600.

 

Your present speakers 150W RMS are not really an awful lot of use and whilst you could add another bass bin the same and buy two amps and a crossover, it is a lot to carry given that it will not put out that much sound. Even with a bass bin on either side that is only 350W RMS per side in total, which is less than most decent full range speakers.

 

I have some speakers in my bedroom which are about 50W a side and they sound very loud at full volume.....in my bedroom. In a large hall or even a small hall those sort of speakers will sound lost.

[McCardle 1]

Oh dear . No offence meant or intended, but I prefer to be honest and straight to the point as opposed to baby you or sugarcoat what others are skirting around. Basically if you are serious about going out with this kit professionally, and charging people for the service you are providing, then you are going to be struggling and perhaps heading for a fall before you've even got properly established, and that would be a shame because you do seem to be genuinely interested in going about this correctly and are asking the right questions.

 

When you take your car to a garage, you expect the mechanic to have the right tools for the job you are paying him to do (and you expect it to be done properly), and nobody wants a surgeon operating on them with an old bread knife and a rusty scalpel. In short, its not far fetched for a client to expect their engaged DJ to have decent sounding and reliable equipment either, after all, if you cannot provide that, there are many 100's out there who can.

 

First of all, as many have said, LOSE THE CAR SPEAKERS. If they were any good in this application, then all of the top DJ speaker manufacturers would be using them in their own cabinets. Now i've just searched google, and i've not found a single instance where this is happening, so I guess it means that they are not suitable for disco use, so stick them in your car.

 

You have not yet told us what type of functions and size of audience that you intend to play / appeal to, so we are all guessing at the moment. How about helping is out a little and telling us, because its pointless for us to be recommending you a 5000W system if you are playing to a few kids in a village hall. Equally, a 500W system isn't going to cut it, if you are booked for Wembly Stadium.

 

If you are doing an average function, with say 100 or so guests, then personally, and if your budget is tight i'd be going with Will's suggestion above, and just getting a pair of 15" Full range speakers, but get the best that you can afford, even if it means saving for a while longer.

 

dont ask me why but i like the equipment and it sounds loud and bass-ey

 

But what about what your clients and their guests want?. When you provide a service in return for £££'s sometimes you have to sacrifice your own personal requirements and tastes and go with what will work the most successfully for those who will be using your service, otherwise its not really going to work out.

 

For example, I do family functions such as Weddings which means that I play music that I, quite simply, hate with a passion and which makes me want to go and pluck my eardrums out with a fork, but I still play it, because I have to and its all part of providing a service.

Edited March 11, 2009 by McCardle

[Dukesy 0]

There is of course the alternative option - learn the hard way! It may hurt your wallet's pride, but you'll feel soooo much better for making a mistake here and there.....

I only wish the forum had been around YEARS BEFORE! LOL! tongue out icon

 

Good luck in what ever you choose to do!

By all means, do not hesitate to ask if there is something you are un-sure about - we're only trying to help! smile icon

[s24dms 0]

Thanks for the reply guys!!!!

 

 

I will be selling or putting my equipment away and starting from scratch (might as well get it right first time! )

 

Please respond to the topic of "Which Amp? "

 

its a new topic which i did just before this reply!!

 

much apreciated!!

[gadget 0]

Interesting... I have a pair of the Audio Intimidation INT112's (I assume this is the revision before the AKA112), which are rated 200w RMS...... They're not bad, but at the same time, not that good. Sound better with a bit of EQq though..!

 

I'm after some better speakers myself...

 

David

 

EDIT, ahh i just checked the AI website, the INT112s are 200w RMS, the AKA112's aren't the same at all...

Edited March 21, 2009 by gadget