Led Lighting...

[BigBen 0]

So, I've seen my first LED lights in the flesh. The situation wasn't ideal; black carpet, black walls and ceiling and no stand to get some height.

 

The first light was the ImpossibLED. It throws out a fair amount of light, distance isn't great but probably good for LED. Coverage is excellent but you need some space between fixture and surface to get the benefit. I've been told they are too much for a small venue - like a pub.

 

http://prolight.co.uk/images/media/11/1115/1115104/IMPO01/IMPO01-wf0.jpg

 

They were totally silent in operation as they have no moving parts and the LED's don't require a cooling fan. They were incredibly light and small enough to fit two in a medium sized bag. Obviously, they don't need spare bulbs, either. They also have the fabulous option of daisy-chaining the kettle leads, so one plug would suffice for a number of fixtures.

 

Overall, I found them a little boring. The patterns were OK, the programs were OK but the colours and lack of movement failed to excite me. By colours I am referring to the Red, Green and Blue LED's...these lights don't mix to create a rainbow of colours. Their weight, size, ease of set-up and operation all have significant advantages over traditional halogen and discharge lights but they lack any sort of excitement.

 

Would I get a pair? I'm sitting on the fence at the moment...see below.

 

I then saw the brand new Acme Thin and Light. It is a pre wired bar complete with four LED par cans. All the wiring is internal so you just need one DMX cable and one power cable to make it work - both are supplied and looked to be about 5 metres in length. The lights can be adjusted to point in any direction and each one can be controlled individually via DMX...just like a normal par can.

 

http://prolight.co.uk/images/media/11/1115/1115100/THIN01/THIN01-wf0.jpg

 

On the model we demo'd the adjusters had been over-tightened, so expect a few quality control faults with the first manufactured units.

 

Output, so I'm told, is twice that of the Kam par bar. That figures because this unit sells at twice the cost - £400. Coverage was OK, distance wasn't great (how far do you want to throw a par?), but at least you can get more than just three colours.

 

The programs were nothing special, the colours went through their cycle but the output was a little mushy - possibly because of the black surfaces. The highlight of the bar is it's ability to add another couple of LED fixtures - the top of the track accepts a bolt, M10's I think, which could be used to fix a bracket containing lightweight lights to the bar. With the chain-linked kettle leads and single DMX cable for the pars, this could be one tidy little lighting rig.

 

Overall, this unit would be excellent for an amazingly quick lighting set-up containing four pars and up to four more, I guess, lightweight fixtures. It's fully DMX'able, too. This will definitely be on my shopping list, but only after the price drops to something more realistic...I'd be happy to pay £250, maybe.

 

In conclusion, I can see how LED lights can be used as a wash to great effect but until they are more exciting and offer the full spectrum of colours in one unit I don't think they're great for the dance floor just yet. There are, however, new LED lights coming out every month. I'm sure by winter there will be something to challenge the traditional moonflowers.

 

As for me, I didn't buy any LED lighting. The Thin and Light was too expensive and the ImpossibLED's were boring. Nevertheless, I'm still tempted - the ease that an eight light DMX show can be set-up and running on one bar is a huge temptation. I think I'll wait until summer, let the prices drop and the design faults sort themselves out first. Of course, there'll be something better by then!

 

MORE PICCIES:

http://prolight.co.uk/images/media/11/1115/1115100/THIN01/THIN01-we0.jpg

http://prolight.co.uk/images/media/11/1115/1115100/THIN01/THIN01-wl0.jpg

http://prolight.co.uk/images/media/11/1115/1115100/THIN01/THIN01-wb0.jpg

http://prolight.co.uk/images/media/11/1115/1115100/THIN01/THIN01-wr0.jpg

 

[Dukesy 0]

Many thanks for sharing. :Thumbup:

[BigBen 0]

Following on from yesterday...today, I've spent an hour or two at a DJ shop where I was treated to a full on light show. Blinds and shutters down, fog and haze filling the room and all lights off except for the ones we were looking at.

 

First off, the Thin and Light is twice the size of the Kam hence the increase in both output and cost.

 

Having seen many LED effects today I have been able to draw some conclusions. I don't like LED effects where there is no movement other than the LED's blinking on or off. Pars or fillers are OK, I'm specifically referring to effects. Therefore, I dislike the ImpossibLED but quite like the InvicbLED because it has a motorised mirror to move the light around.

 

Other LED lights with traditional movement that I also quite liked include the Acme Super Nova pack and the Acme LittLED. However, they are both a little dim to excite the dance floor without smoke. Seeing as I'm contemplating my first laser - the Kam 3D - it does what these two Acme's do, move dots around the floor, but there's more dots and a greater coverage at the sacrifice of different colours.

 

I saw some lovely bright LED panels, but they're not my thing.

 

The best LED lights I have seen were the Acme Genesis LED Moving Head's. I've never gone for moving heads because of their cost but these were fantastic. About £600 a pair. I'm tempted!

 

I stand by my earlier comments but I can be a little more specific now; LED effect lights just don't cut the mustard yet. However, they are getting better with every release.

[Dukesy 0]

Acme Genesis LED Moving Head's

 

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[gadget 0]

Are they 20watt LEDs in those moving heads? Look good, can wonder if you can change the gobos in them too... wonder how they compare to a 250watt halogen equivalent..

[Pebo 0]

Interesting post. I really didn't think there were many people who weren't converted to LED at first sight.

I know that I am virtually all LED now and swear by them. I can't say I know of many real drawbacks in my case personally.

 

So what do I like about LED's? .. Weight, Colours & brightness, No worrying about letting them cool after a gig, and one other thing is that I don't have complaints about the lights dazzling people as I found with halogen.

[daryll 0]

Got to admit I`ve been LED for a few months now.

 

Cyclope (impossibled clone)

2 x Revo rolls

2 x ADJ spectrum

4 x Acme visio LED par 64`s

8 x LEDJ colorbursts.

 

My Falcon`s and datamoon`s are gathering dust in the shed

 

However THIS one seems to the way forward for LED`s , non DMX , but the stage is set , on the video it states 180 degrees , it is not .

 

daryll

[BigBen 0]

Interesting post. I really didn't think there were many people who weren't converted to LED at first sight.

I know that I am virtually all LED now and swear by them. I can't say I know of many real drawbacks in my case personally.

 

So what do I like about LED's? .. Weight, Colours & brightness, No worrying about letting them cool after a gig, and one other thing is that I don't have complaints about the lights dazzling people as I found with halogen.

The reason people don't complain about your LED lights dazzling them is because they aren't as bright! You shouldn't be pointing them in people's faces anyway...but that's another thread entirely!

 

I know all the good things about LED lights, I want to love them but they just aren't that good yet. I particularly dislike the three colour only lights - red, green and blue. They look cheap to me. I've also learned that I don't care for the lack of movement. The video Daryl has linked to is a huge improvement - seven colours, gobo's, mirror movement - much more comparable to the traditional moon flower. This is my point; the current crop of lights just aren't there yet...but only in my opinion.

 

If all I wanted was a light light that threw some basic colours onto the floor and was cool in operation then an ImpossibLED would be on my stand now. I just think that in six or twelve months time LED will have matured to the point where the current lights will seem quite outdated.

[Pebo 0]

Hmm... that reads as quite a hostile reply to an honest post. Ok let's get something clear, firstly I have 20 years experience and I'm not stupid enough to point lights into people's faces as you imply. And secondly have you directed a halogen onto a wall 50 feet away alongside an LED and seen which one holds its brightness best?

 

This is a forum, and everyone is entitled to their opinions by the way.

[Kingy 0]

I understand what BB is saying, but personally I have nearly completed the switch to LED.

 

Yesterday I bought an ADJ tri-led 10 watt twisty thing and love it.

 

As for impossileds, getting a bit bored with them now.

 

have to say, the tri-led stuff is rather nice, great colours, and not just three!!

[BigBen 0]

Hmm... that reads as quite a hostile reply to an honest post. Ok let's get something clear, firstly I have 20 years experience and I'm not stupid enough to point lights into people's faces as you imply. And secondly have you directed a halogen onto a wall 50 feet away alongside an LED and seen which one holds its brightness best?

 

This is a forum, and everyone is entitled to their opinions by the way.

Sorry Pebo, it wasn't meant to sound hostile, it was meant to be in jest. Words on the screen don't always read as they were intended.

 

But you're comments intrigue me; are you saying that your LED lights throw more light on a surface 50' away than a more traditional light, without smoke or haze? And you are referring to effects lighting and not a fill or an uplighter?

 

I can only tell you about my two experiences with LED, but do remember that neither were in a gig situation. The beams looked thin and 'weedy'. The output on the surface was dim and the light was only about 20' away. The panels and pars certainly did their job and the moving heads were awesome, but the replica moonflower type lights looked cheap when compared to any other halogen or discharge effect. The Kam 3D laser made total mincemeat of them, too.

 

But I'll reiterate, I want to move to LED; show me something that fits the bill for both me and the customer and I'll buy them today.

[Dukesy 0]

Words on the screen don't always read as they were intended.

 

That is why forums provide smilies to help convey the intention!!!! :karen: :bouncy: :amen: :eek: :ads: :thumbsup:

[BigBen 0]

That is why forums provide smilies to help convey the intention!!!!

Oh get stuffed :joe: :Thumbup: :lol2: tongue out icon

 

Is that what you mean? ;)

[Pebo 0]

Fair enough, maybe I mis-read the reply.. No worries. I'm not a connoseur of LED's but yes I'm sure that the LED stuff I have out performs halogen at a distance, and the colours never fade too which is a big plus.

 

I still have a couple of halogen, but they are heavy & clumsy so I'll certainly be phasing them out when I can.

 

Anyway, each to his own. there wouldn't be much to discuss if we all chose to use the same stuff eh

[BigBen 0]

Thought I'd report back having gigged using two ImpossibLED's along with a traditional halogen and my new Kam 3D laser.

 

First point, I actually had a guy comment on my lights. I've never been into lights in a big way so I think this was a first for me.

 

I had them set up on a goal post, the two ImpossibLED's either end with the laser over my console and the Brokenswing to my right. The Brokenswing is my all-time favourite fixture; it's cheap and gives a huge coverage - I've used it dozens of times on its own:

http://www.iasoundandlight.co.uk/images/disco96.jpg

With the 'Swing providing lots of fill light with some swirly squares too, I used the laser to provide some red and green 'dots'. This tiny little box is my first laser so I can't offer an objective comparison with anything else. All I know is that it looks great and is one hell of a room filler. It's petite size is a total bonus!

 

I'd angled the two LED's either side of centre to fill the sides of the floor. I had them dmx'd and used a CA8 controller. They did OK. Can't say I was blown away with their performance but they did what I asked of them. The lack of movement wasn't an issue because the other lights provided that. It's the same story with the colours, so maybe they did compliment the set-up I was using..?

 

What did surprise me was their output. This was unexpected. You could clearly see the flashing RGB dots on the floor even with the halogen fill and the laser swamping the venue with light. That was a nice surprise.

 

I wasn't overly impressed with the controller but maybe I didn't have the dmx set up properly. I could only really use it to select a show but I wanted it to cycle through all of its features whilst maintaining sound to light.

 

My conclusion is still the same. I'm definitely going to move to LED but the fixture has to offer more than the ImpossibLED. More colours, more movement, more fun. Brightness/output, however, is not as much of an issue as I thought it was.

 

The laser was a huge success. I wish every piece of gear could be this light and small and make such a big difference!

 

Big thanks to DJ Silver for the loan of two ImpossibLED's, the CA8 and two Acme Colour Fusion CF-805's. There's not many DJ's who'll loan you £500+ worth of lighting!

[deejaymitch 0]

Thanks for the review BigBen, it's good to get some feedback from a live test and I'm sure I'm not the only the only one who will be interested to read this.

[biggav 0]

I have a miracled and 2 Acme Starball (non DMX) which is more than enough for any small-medium venue.

 

I did a large venue a few weeks back and used some 1M LED Colour changing strip lights (£17 on ebay each) around the stage, 4X DMX par 36 (£24.99 each on ebay) on the band and 2 smoke machines..... And it filled the room!!!!!

 

I have upgraded my speakers though and they add to the visual effect.. and the sound!!

[bluejools 0]

i always travel with two impossibleds - dont always use both - it depends on the size of the room

 

recently joined the star cluster laser owners club......

 

last gig was two impossibleds - the star cluster on the ceiling - and two acme supernova moonflowers on the walls.

 

 

next gig - all 4 supernovas, star cluster and one impossibled...........

 

 

As for the supernovas... their ok - bit fragile