Reliable Smoke Machines

[Norfolk DJ 0]

 

Is it me or are smoke machines the most unreliable piece of DJ equipment?

 

I went through 4 machines in 3 years including a Jem Fogger, Antari and 2 Zoom/Source machines

 

What are the best ones to buy these days as my last one will need replacing within the next 6 months?

[Bouncy Dancefloor 0]

it tends to be the heating element

 

i tend to aim for the 2 extremes, either a £40 cheap one that you can throw away in a years time when it breaks

 

or an expensive Branded one that will last

 

i dont believe in spending £100-£150 on a prolight/kam/skytec/chauvet machine, i think its a false economy

[Robster 0]

i bought a cheap soundlab one £35 . I bought it in mind that if it works the once for a Halloween it was ok. well i have used it five more times since..

so for my mentality its been good value.

 

i think sometimes people have too big expectations of equipment..lets face it this was £35! i spent more than £35(£52 to be exact) on balloons for my sons 21st party that were for one night.

 

like anything i guess you get what you pay for but i dont see smoke machines as bad value or AS short lived as some things.

[Norfolk DJ 0]

i bought a cheap soundlab one £35 . I bought it in mind that if it works the once for a Halloween it was ok. well i have used it five more times since..

so for my mentality its been good value.

 

i think sometimes people have too big expectations of equipment..lets face it this was £35! i spent more than £35(£52 to be exact) on balloons for my sons 21st party that were for one night.

 

like anything i guess you get what you pay for but i dont see smoke machines as bad value or AS short lived as some things.

 

Yes maybe I'm beteer off spending £40 then

 

[superstardeejay 0]

The cheap ones are really cheap and unreliable, the mid-priced ones are cheap and unreliable, the more expensive ones are generally reliable.

 

The materials used to make a good smoke machine are expensive, so you wont get a really good cheap one as it can't be made for the money. A good machine uses lots of chunky aluminium, milled precisely, and lots of copper, an expensive large pump and a large, lazy element. They use a pcb that can withstand heat and the odd soaking with fluid and can hold the temperature accurately without subjecting the element to thermal stress.

 

Cheaper units use a small, flimsy heat exchanger, small bore, high-performance (and easily blocked) copper tubing, a cheap, small hard working heater that spends more time 'on' than 'off' and a tiny pump with poor quality rubber components, and either a poor pcb or a thermostat that allows the temperature to overshoot. They look great on demo and some of them are truly impressive when new.

 

So think Jem (Martin), Le Maitre, Swefog, Look, Smoke Factory as being good. I wont mention the others but You Know Who You Are. Consider the effects on the environment and economy from chucking 18-month old chinese machines away, and consider the inconvenience of having one refuse to work at the start of a gig.

 

 

Edited May 1, 2009 by superstardeejay

[Raymilkybarkid 0]

The cheap ones are really cheap and unreliable, the mid-priced ones are cheap and unreliable, the more expensive ones are generally reliable.

 

So think Jem (Martin), Le Maitre, Swefog, Look, Smoke Factory as being good. I wont mention the others but You Know Who You Are. Consider the effects on the environment and economy from chucking 18-month old chinese machines away, and consider the inconvenience of having one refuse to work at the start of a gig.

 

 

We use various, The larger martin are fantastic as are the Le maitre but so are the price tags our most reliable and best by far is the Smoke Factory Tour Hazer at a cost of about £700 + VAT well worth it though.

Edited May 1, 2009 by Raymilkybarkid

[gadget 0]

I had a cheap chauvet one that packed up - the inlet filter rusted and ended up blocking the pump....

 

Borrowed a massive Martin one from a theatre a couple of times, It had rusted quite a bit around the outlet (it was quite old, and had a specific controller for it - non DMX).

 

It was good, but tbh didn't seem to force it out as quick as I was expecting it to.....

 

David

[superstardeejay 0]

I guess 700 quid is out of the league of most DJ's unless you treat your DJing as an expensive hobby! (I know a few who do!!)

 

Martin/Jem make some nice little affordable machines, for example the Magnum 550 at around 75 quid! Le Maitre also do the Maxi Fogger which, although it has a hard-wired remote, is a powerful unit at £200!!

 

See here;

 

http://www.smokemachines.net/buy-le-maitre-maxi-fogger.shtml

Edited May 2, 2009 by superstardeejay

[flash911 0]

I have a Martin junior 700 smoke machine , I have had it for over 10 yrs . died on me last week, well sort of .

the pump still turns the heater still heats but nothing comes from the pump :damn: .

Me thinks the pumps has an air leak and trying to source a new one is a night mare .

I have emailed Martin to see if any of their new parts would replace the faulty pump but as yet have not recieved a reply. I was considering getting a wind screen washer pump for a lorry (as its 24v) any one care to comment on my thoughts ?

[Norfolk DJ 0]

I guess 700 quid is out of the league of most DJ's unless you treat your DJing as an expensive hobby! (I know a few who do!!)

 

Martin/Jem make some nice little affordable machines, for example the Magnum 550 at around 75 quid! Le Maitre also do the Maxi Fogger which, although it has a hard-wired remote, is a powerful unit at £200!!

 

See here;

 

http://www.smokemachines.net/buy-le-maitre-maxi-fogger.shtml

 

Does the Martin Magnum 550 pump out the smoke very far as I notice that it's only a 450w compared to say a traditional Antari which is 700w. Can't see any obvious advantage at the moment going for the Martin.

[Dream Catchers 0]

On the fog and hazers I have seen the output from the pump is normally a steel pipe, this is because of it going to the heater and the heat will obviously creep down the pipe over the night. For that reason the output port on the pump will have a metal olive rather than a rubber seal.

 

Also the amount of fluid that is pumped in a machine is a tiny amount compared to the bucket loads that are needed for a lorry window.

 

Have you tried testing the pump, disconnect the output pipe and see if it squirts the fluid out, the chances are that the capillary is blocked somewhere in the heater.

 

Jim

[superstardeejay 0]

I was considering getting a wind screen washer pump for a lorry (as its 24v

 

I guess that comment wasn't serious!

 

It could be the pump or a blockage as jim has said, so do that little test.

 

One of the most common failures of the pumps is the inbuilt non-return valve. Smoke pumps are high pressure low flow piston pumps and if the valve sticks or leaks (due to limescale, bad spring or perished rubber washer) then the pump will just vibrate the fluid in and out a few millimeters, it wont really force its way into the heat exchanger.

 

Most pumps for smoke MCs (esp. the european ones) were originally designed for drinks vending machines, milk frothers and espresso coffee makers, made by an italian company called Ulka and are generally long lasting, though they can still get furred up over a long period.

 

http://www.panafe.com/lang1/images/pg014_1_14.jpg

 

PS There is a website somewhere to do with servicing commercial coffee machines that has a very good article on Ulka pumps and how to strip them down and service them. You can generally take them all apart and descale them, but if you havent done it before, get a pad and pencil and mark where everything goes, as they're full of washers, springs, spacers and seals that must go back exactly right if you're to see it ever work again.

 

If the pump is run for any length of time without fluid, it will overheat, this can cause the springs to lose their temper and they wont return the piston properly. This may be the cause of a non-working pump that otherwise seems to work and burrr but doesnt shift fluid once its back together.

Edited May 3, 2009 by superstardeejay

[flash911 0]

I have stripped the machine down. cleaned ALL the pipes/tubes but still nothing. I have changed the pick up tube thinking it might have a small hole in , Nothing.

the pump has been cleaned, nothing. the heater gets hot all the switcheses work as they should.

I am convinced its the pump :damn:

[Dream Catchers 0]

What happen when you leave the output pipe of the pump disconnected, does it squirt fluid out of the pump?

 

Jim

[flash911 0]

nope , nothing, ive tried blowing it thru using mmy mouth, works that way and produces smoke , im 99% sure its the pump,

so if any one knows where i can get a replacement one from id be greatful :Thumbup:

[Steve_Mitchell 0]

I'd be inclined to use the word 'haze' machine.. Smoke can be to thick and irritating, especially with the cheap ones and if your machines life exceeds a gallon of fluid then the fluid will disappear pretty sharpish.. Haze is designed to show off your lights only and not upset the guests.. At the moment I use a £100ish, hydrahaze machine, Had it for a while and to be honest am waiting for it it brake so I can get another but it seems to plod on with no problems..

 

The next one I get will defo be a Le Maitre. Not only a quality machine but the fluid lasts a hell of a lot longer, so that will be the difference in the money saving.

[superstardeejay 0]

ive tried blowing it thru using mmy mouth

 

For the record I wouldnt condone any DJU readers do this! The pressure that expels the smoke vapour as it expands in the heat exchanger can force it both ways equally with no pump to check the back pressure! Did smoke come out of your ears?

 

I would try your local Martin dealership for the correct pump.

 

 

[buskersball 0]

For the record I wouldnt condone any DJU readers do this! The pressure that expels the smoke vapour as it expands in the heat exchanger can force it both ways equally with no pump to check the back pressure! Did smoke come out of your ears?

 

I would try your local Martin dealership for the correct pump.

 

I use one of the cheap plastic bodied Antari ones (around £35 on ebay), and I too am waiting for it to break so I can justify getting a different coloured one...but no luck. Had it working every weekend for 2 years. And it gives out a surprisingly large amount ...and reheats super quick. Had a large hazer before that, but wouldn't want to go back to carrying the weight...and the Antari is super economical and compact...highly recomended! If you need vast amounts get two! (But I use it with my rock band, really 'over the top' and its more than enough

[Norfolk DJ 0]

I have a Martin junior 700 smoke machine , I have had it for over 10 yrs . died on me last week, well sort of .

the pump still turns the heater still heats but nothing comes from the pump :damn: .

Me thinks the pumps has an air leak and trying to source a new one is a night mare .

I have emailed Martin to see if any of their new parts would replace the faulty pump but as yet have not recieved a reply. I was considering getting a wind screen washer pump for a lorry (as its 24v) any one care to comment on my thoughts ?

 

There is 1 going for a fiver on ebay at the moment

[flash911 0]

thanks for the heads up