Cowboy Customers

[McCardle 1]

Anybody else see the program 'Cowboy Customers' on TV on Tuesday night?. Gave an interesting version of events when the cowboy element is turned around and its the trader who is being denied payment and treated unfairly by the customer.

 

The other thing that it showed was that the balance of power is always in the customers favour, and in many cases so is the LAW. This is one point that one desperate builder found when he went to dig up some driveway work that he had done for the customer, yet had not been paid for. The Police sided with the customer and arrested the builder, and the court also found him guilty of criminal damage - for purely tearing up the work which basically he hadn't been paid for, and for which the customer clearly had no intention of ever paying

 

The other point that was discussed and highlighted, is that Court action and even CCJ's are not really worth the paper that they are written on, and some customers never actually pay what they owe or offer to pay it off in silly instalments of £1 per month

 

After watching this program, I personally am glad that I now ask for a deposit to secure the clients chosen date, and also insist on full payment being made at the start of the evening (or advance if they want to pay by cheque), because after watching the program, I now believe that the chances of getting back the relatively small scale sums involved in this industry are going to be nil when there are people in other trades still owed, £3000, £7000, £15k and even £30k - months or years after the work was completed.

 

You can't rely on the law or the courts to get back what payment is owed, so you have to work on your own mettle and terms and if you are paid at the start of the function, then the chances of being taken for a ride are going to be nil.

 

Despite the Government being able to 'cease' money from PAYE wages in respect of unpaid council tax / speeding tickets / parking fines and other officialdom, they don't apply the same yardstick or importance to the everyday bad debts encountered by ordinary hard working cattle citizens and still only an estimated 10% of court actions are successful in recovering the FULL debt owed by the customer.

 

Yes, most clients are honest hard working individuals themselves and wouldn't dream of NOT settling their bills, but in the same vein, in most cases those decent clients will see and fully understand why you have to work on these terms, in order to protect yourself from the less honest.

 

Sadly there is also a growing trend of those who think we operate an unoffical 30 day credit term or whose appearance in court for routine non payment of something, is an everyday occurance, and have no intention of paying.

 

Anybody else asking for payment at the start of the night / in advance - rather than leaving it to chance at the end when it might be forgotten / overlooked or spent over the bar

Edited September 10, 2009 by McCardle

[D.X 0]

Not my problem. No cash, no set up.

[Bobby R - DJ Felix 0]

I now stronly hint with my pre-day letter to the client, that the dj needs paying within 30 minutes of his arrival to avoid any apprehension, only one person has left it till the buffet of late, it seems to work a treat

 

the only time i had to wait was when working for green king, who decided not to pay me for 2 months, i did eventially get all my money back though.

[Bouncy Dancefloor 0]

i regular work for 3-4 greene king venues in this area, i get paid at the end of each night, although these are bars and restaurants. I have no experience of the hotel side of their business

[make a note disco 0]

a few weeks ago for the first time we encountered one customer who tried to evade payment. He paid the deposit well in advance and introduced himself at the start and came across as a decent guy. Unfortunately I didnt actually ask for payment as i was busy setting up and thought nothing of it as i have never had someone not pay.

 

Anyway, at the end of the event i went to ask for the money and without going into everything he wanted to pay me a few days later as he had no cash on him. End result was to ask if someone else can pay on his behalf otherwise we would have to call the police. That tactic worked and we got our money :Thumbup:

[Bouncy Dancefloor 0]

why would you have called the Police? Non payment is not a police matter and you would be wasting their time

[McCardle 1]

why would you have called the Police? Non payment is not a police matter and you would be wasting their time

 

If its a deliberate act of dishonesty such as the customer deliberately intending to do a runner without paying then yes there is grounds. Eateries, Railway companies and taxi drivers have been known to call the police when their customers fail to pay, even detaining the customer perfectly legally until they attend. Driving off without paying for a tank of fuel, or not intending to pay for a service provided, theft is theft.

 

I agree that its trivial (although railway companies don't seem to think fare dodging is, which on principle is the same thing) but even when called there is little the police can do anyway, other than to attend and try to intervene and appeal to the customers better nature, they won't arrest them (unless violence is threatened etc) and technically, yes they do have better things to do than to deal with matters like this, however if you believe dishonesty is at stake or if you are being threatened or put in fear for your own safety then they have to duty to attend, but please don't clog up the 999 system to report it and if they do send an officer, bear in mind that it will only marginally increase the success of getting paid there and then

 

Proving a pre-meditated act of dishonesty in this case and against a third party is another matter, if the client wants to, they can feign that they are not happy with your service and so are withholding payment on that basis or that they have genuinely forgotten / spent the fee, all the Police will do in this case, is to advise you to invoice the customer and then take relevant legal action if they subsequently fail to pay the invoice.

 

Either way, the threat of calling the police clearly worked and the DJ got paid, so I don't see the issue. A success story surely?, and nobodies time got wasted. Sometimes, a bit of firm bluffing and eye contact can save months of waiting and chasing for payment. (A bit of A4 paper in the form of a contract is even more effective, but thats personal choice)

 

There are so many variables and posssibilities to this scenario plus the fact that there is usually two sides to every story, that the best advice I can give, is the one i've always given, and that is to (i) Take a deposit of some kind and (ii) demand cheque payments upfront to allow to clear, and to accept cash payments on the night, but ask for your fee to be paid only when there is still reasonable time to withdraw service if payment is refused. . This way, it will never be an issue and not something you have to worry about .

 

After the event is sometimes too late, and besides if you don't issue a contract for the booking then you have zero chance of getting any money back through the small claims because those dealing with it on your behalf WILL ask for all copies of paperwork in order to validate your claim.

 

In fact, some DJ's may find themselves eventually being targeted by certain elements of society, not because they are good, but down to the fact that not issuing contracts makes them a better and more likely target to be successfully ripped off. Food for thought.

Edited September 17, 2009 by McCardle

[Bouncy Dancefloor 0]

so in essence, with proper contracts (which everyone should be using anyway) and by following your own procedures (asking for payment at the start) you could have avoided a very awkward yet very avoidable moment, for you and the client

[Raymilkybarkid 0]

I always ask for payment minimum of 10 days prior to the event.

Thus saving the embarrassment of asking for Cash on the evening or chasing round at the end of the night for payment.

 

 

[UKHero 0]

I always ask for payment minimum of 10 days prior to the event.

Thus saving the embarrassment of asking for Cash on the evening or chasing round at the end of the night for payment.

 

Same as Ray, I used to hate the cap in hand way of asking for my fee at the end of the gig. I now contract all work and ask for a deposit and Ball due 14 days before event.

 

I am amazed that some people who frequent this forum still cant see the benefit to them of using a contract, to me it makes sence and also gives the client piece of mind that they have something in writing that shows what they are getting and when.

 

Remember a contract is a two sided agreement. We agree to fulfill what is stated on the contract and sign to that they agree to pay you and honour your T&Cs and they sign to that. Since issuing contracts I have had no problems what so ever with payment.

 

It was by joining DJU that made me decide to issue contracts and I have never looked back so thanks to the guys who took the time to post on here in the past and help a newbie (as was) like me.

 

Nik

[deejaymitch 0]

Same as Ray, I used to hate the cap in hand way of asking for my fee at the end of the gig. I now contract all work and ask for a deposit and Ball due 14 days before event.

 

I am amazed that some people who frequent this forum still cant see the benefit to them of using a contract, to me it makes sence and also gives the client piece of mind that they have something in writing that shows what they are getting and when.

 

Remember a contract is a two sided agreement. We agree to fulfill what is stated on the contract and sign to that they agree to pay you and honour your T&Cs and they sign to that. Since issuing contracts I have had no problems what so ever with payment.

 

It was by joining DJU that made me decide to issue contracts and I have never looked back so thanks to the guys who took the time to post on here in the past and help a newbie (as was) like me.

 

Nik

 

+1

[Bouncy Dancefloor 0]

i accept cash at the start of the gig if they choose that method (In addition to cheques and bank transfer a week in advance)

 

the contract they sign states they pay at the start

i verbally tell them they pay at the start

 

99% of the time they have the money ready to give me whilst im still loading kit in

So far this year, only had to ask twice and both times they willingly paid and were ok with it. This is at the start of the night of course