Feedback Issues!

[chris_gilly 0]

When trying to use my mic i get tonnes of feedback. does anyone have any ideas of the best setup for mics and to prevent feedback?

[Robster 0]

The type of mic , speaker placement in proximity to the mics are the two things that cause feddback in my experience i often have four singers at a time in tiny venues ... i have found behringer cheap 3 pack microphones to be excellent as they only pick up sound sang or spoken right into them and tend not to pick up sound from elsewhere. i always make sure the speakers are not near the microphones or that the speakers are in front with the mics a few meters from the back of the speakers if possible , there are feedback destroyers etc but careful set up and the right choice of microphones is the best place to start in my honest opinion

[superstardeejay 0]

I agree with rob. The choice of mic is the first thing, followed by the layout of your sound system in regard to the mics. Get the users to learn how to 'close mic' so you can minimise the gain needed to achieve the required volume. Dont forget that many pop stars on pop videos clutching mics to their chest are probably miming and dont have to worry about feedback.

 

A few particularly popular DJ-grade microphones feed back like crazy. Try a few different ones.

 

 

[gadget 0]

I agree with rob. The choice of mic is the first thing, followed by the layout of your sound system in regard to the mics. Get the users to learn how to 'close mic' so you can minimise the gain needed to achieve the required volume. Dont forget that many pop stars on pop videos clutching mics to their chest are probably miming and dont have to worry about feedback.

 

A few particularly popular DJ-grade microphones feed back like crazy. Try a few different ones.

 

What about those who stand in front of the speaker stacks on stage and are singing right in front of them (and are clearly live)? Or are the gains turned right down in this instance (cos in quite a few concerts the vocals always dont seem that "loud" compared to the rest of the band)...

 

Anyone care to name and shame some crazy feedback ones and some which def don't?

 

Looking at getting a new UHF Mic soon (Probably the Senny Freeport vocal one for about 120 quid).. Unless anyone has recommendations for good mics that actually work over a decent distance!

 

David

Edited September 27, 2009 by gadget

[Bouncy Dancefloor 0]

at concerts, the mic will be seriously high quality, the user will know how to hold it, plus you can often eliminate certain frequencies with an EQ to avoid alot of the feedback

[chris_gilly 0]

at the minute i use a shure pg-58. which ive been told is a widely used mic. but still i get loads! where can you get them cheap berri mics rob?

 

thanks for all the advice :-)

[Robster 0]

 

http://www.boomerangsounds.co.uk/shopimages/products/normal/BEHXM180_400x300_BS.jpg

 

 

Clicky here for where i got mine

 

BEHRINGER XM1800S - 3-Pack - Dynamic Microphone

 

The DYNAMIC MICROPHONE XM1800S is a high-quality dynamic microphone for vocal and instrumental applications. Just because you are on a budget doesn't mean you should make compromises on performance. If you are a serious musician, a DJ or an all-around entertainer, this is definitely the mic for you.

 

The XM1800S features an extremely high signal output that makes your voice cut through, and ultra-low distortion provides for super-clean sound. Presence lift in the critical mid-range gives you maximum voice projection, while exceptional off-axis rejection eliminates feedback problems. Super rugged construction copes with your toughest live assignments, and a foam-lined impact-resistant carrying case is included. The XM1800S also features an on/off switch.

 

Features:

 

* Dedicated vocal and instrument mic delivers unbelievable quality to your studio and live performance

* With On/Off switch

* Extremely high signal output lets your voice cut through

* Ultra-low distortion for super clean sound

* Presence lift in critical mid-range gives you maximum voice projection

* Exceptional off-axis rejection eliminates feedback problems

* Super rugged construction copes with your toughest live assignments

* Foam-lined impact-resistant carrying case included

* Microphone stand adapter included

 

 

Technical data:

 

* Type: Dynamic

* Frequency response: 80 Hz - 15 kHz

* Pickup pattern: Super cardioid

* Impedance: 600 Ohms

* Sensitivity: -52 dBV (0 dBV =1 V/Pa), 2.5 mV/Pa

* Connector: 3-pin balanced XLR (male)

 

 

At under £30 for THREE plus about £8.00 for P&P you cant go wrong ! even if they don't solve your problem as these Mics are always useful as spares. I Personally found them better than the PG58's in all areas.

[chris_gilly 0]

wow thats great! cheers bud :)

[gadget 0]

It's not the the first time I've heard good things about the Berry 3 pack... For the price you just can't go wrong..!

[superstardeejay 0]

The PG58 is not especially prone to feedback, it is designed for live work and is essentially a cheaper version of the SM58. Maybe you should look elsewhere! Do you use any kind of effects? Certain types of echo and reverb will increase feedback, do you use that? Experiment with speaker placement, taking into account direct and reflected coupling. You may just have the PA too loud, or be in a 'difficult' room. Do you use monitor speakers?

Edited September 27, 2009 by superstardeejay

[chris_gilly 0]

The PG58 is not especially prone to feedback, it is designed for live work and is essentially a cheaper version of the SM58. Maybe you should look elsewhere! Do you use any kind of effects? Certain types of echo and reverb will increase feedback, do you use that? Experiment with speaker placement, taking into account direct and reflected coupling. You may just have the PA too loud, or be in a 'difficult' room. Do you use monitor speakers?

 

 

i sometimes use a bit of echo but not much but not always!

 

taking into account direct and reflected coupling??? what do you mean by that?

 

nope no monitors. i usually use 2 500watt tops and a 2200watt bin either using a 1000watt amp with a crossover and small soundlab mixer or a powered mixer to power the tops and a studiomaster ax3500 amp. bridged for the bin.

 

i usually have it quite loud to be honest and the speakers are always around 4ft away from me on stands around 6ft up

[Robster 0]

My feeling would be that the levels are one of the problems.

when making announcements or general chat you need to turn the music down a lot more than you would imagine and your own voice level needs to be at a level that will be clear without making people jump when you talk..lol

 

A sound check one two is one of the most important set up points 10 mins extra care here can save a whole night of problems as you are no doubt aware.

 

when i first started out i was shy so i played the music loud to compensate and spoke without turning the music down ..no one could hear me and because i spoke softly i had to turn the mic right up...then a massive feedback sound embarrassingly comes through.

I learned to be brave, speak louder and turn the music level down.

 

Many people have commented that they can understand what i say as opposed to the "peter kay mumbling dj's" they have been to ..it is a stereotype.... but often levels and vocal technique are to blame for that "sound".

 

 

 

I'm not a expert like superstardeejay so i may have this wrong but direct coupling problems i think are offset errors introduced by the electronics themselves ie the settings on the equipment like reverb and echo and level settings ... reflected coupling problems are feedback problems from placement of the equipment and noise introduced externally from the equipment itself ie your voice too loud down the mic when your stood next to the speaker reflections of the room entering the loop. I am sure superstardeejay will elaborate

 

 

I would angle the top speakers away and out slightly and see if that helps just a slight angle can also have a massive difference. If you can have the speakers more forward than where the mic is and your set up not in a straight line.

 

Only after messing with placement and levels would i spend any money on other equipment .

 

on another note in one gig my mate hosts he had to use a built in PA system and he used PG58's he had no end of feedback problems. we swapped them for the Behringers and it improved very slightly but did not eliminate the problem totally , what we did notice was that when we reduced the echo settings and altered where the singers sang (this was a karaoke venue) it reduced it 90% of the time apart from when he had quiet singers so he turned the levels up so they could be heard but this was at a level that caused feedback also. telling them to sing louder and telling them to hold the mic close to there mouth helped a lot.

 

As a karaoke host i often get quiet singers saying the mic isn't on when they are holding it at arms length i often grab it of them and say" one two" which comes through nice and clear ..this shows them the problem is not the system it is them!

 

It could be your too quiet or not holding the mic close enough so are compensating with levels.

 

After proof reading my post it sounds a bit patronising BUT i assure you it is not ..its is just an attempt in trying to solve your problem given the information you have provided , sorry if i'm telling you how to suck eggs it is genuinely not meant that way.

 

Good luck hope you solve it.

 

[Dream Catchers 0]

Just expanding on one of the points Rob made, quite often singers are a bit "shy" of hearing their own voice, they then sing quieter, you turn the gain up, they sing even quieter or move the mic even farther away.

What I tend to do is refrain from altering the gain, tell them to put the mic closer to their mouth or raise their voice a bit.

 

Feedback tends to be from the higher frequencies most often (treble) as it is more directional, having the speakers on stands improves the sound to the audience, but it also means the HF drivers tend to be closer to the level of the mic, hence more feedback issues.

Angling the speakers away from the singer helps a great deal.

 

Jim

[chris_gilly 0]

thanks everyone. great i understand that! ive just been thinking my top cabs have a HF gain nobs on the back. there not poweredd but it boosts the power going to the tweaters. i think i had them on max so ill try turning them down

[superstardeejay 0]

By direct coupling I mean the sound comes out of your speakers and back into your mic..gets amplified..out of your speakers louder...back into your mic..etc,etc.

 

By reflected, I mean the sound comes out of your speakers, hits a wall/floor/ceiling, gets reflected back towards the mic, gets amplified....etc,etc

 

In other words, putting distance in between your speakers and mic, or pointing the speakers away from the mic is no guarantee of feedback-free performance. The best thing is to reduce the volume.

 

 

 

 

[chris_gilly 0]

ok thanks guys! ill take that tip onboard! my mixers have a mic talkover and one has a -20db button. should i use these when talking?

 

also by rule of thumb how loud do you have the music?

[supersound dj 0]

Check your Gain stucture too.By this I mean dont have the turny knob gains turned right up on the mike channel.Use the slider for volume.

A good mixer to learn gain structure is a Denon x500 as it has leds to tell you when you hit 0db on the input side.

 

also are you using ballanced inputs and good quallity mic cable?

 

Paul

[chris_gilly 0]

Check your Gain stucture too.By this I mean dont have the turny knob gains turned right up on the mike channel.Use the slider for volume.

A good mixer to learn gain structure is a Denon x500 as it has leds to tell you when you hit 0db on the input side.

 

also are you using ballanced inputs and good quallity mic cable?

 

Paul

 

i was using the gain quite abit! that might be why! yep good quality wires and all balanced :)