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[Dukesy 0]

DJ Associates has been invited by music artiste Billy Bragg to enage in a Piracy debate with the music industry.

I'd like to extend the invitation to members of the DJ Community too:

 

Your comments (below) will be passed direct to Mr Bragg - author name / alias will be submitted.

 

Two questions:

 

Should there be a dialogue between artists and p2p file-sharers, and if so, why?

Are file-sharers 'thieves' or 'music fans'?

 

Discuss.

[vokf 0]

DJ Associates has been invited by music artiste Billy Bragg to enage in a Piracy debate with the music industry.

I'd like to extend the invitation to members of the DJ Community too:

 

Your comments (below) will be passed direct to Mr Bragg - author name / alias will be submitted.

 

Two questions:

 

Should there be a dialogue between artists and p2p file-sharers, and if so, why?

Are file-sharers 'thieves' or 'music fans'?

 

Discuss.

 

There should be dialog between artists and pirates - there is more to piracy than P2P. People passing around memory sticks/USB Hdds in the office/factory is very common. My daughter was passing her music to her friends using her Phone (20 lashes for her when I found out! :devil: ).

 

The current message of "stealing" music is not getting through. Its easy to do, and the chances of getting caught is non-existent.

Compared to stealing something from a supermarket (shoplifting), its accepted as the norm. I did joke about stealing a chocolate bar from the local Garage, and the office canteen went into silence with shock. No such reaction to people discussing copying music!

I don't know what dialogue would do - not many people will openly admit to copying music.

 

Shows like XFactor show accelerated exposure to sometimes talented people (I don't watch it, btw)

If would be good if these shows spent more time on the business side of the music industry and how much a typical top10 single really makes (after expenses and advance has been repaid)

 

 

 

I class file-sharers as Thieves.

If I start chatting to someone and mention I'm a DJ and we talk about music and gear, the conversation normally gets to "well, I guess you get all your music for free -so its easier than it used to be" - they assume its all copied from friends/internet.

When I explain that all my music is purchased - either Tescos/Charity Shop/Legal Download, they cannot believe it, and start trying to work out how much I've spent...

 

I have a few friends that sell software, I can easily find a crack for his software- and this is losing him money, and he is very down on creating new releases IF the return is so low.

 

I'm not sure of the future. Perhaps allow low-quality (ie 64Kbps) free downloads with lower cost higher quality downloads.

A quick check on for MJ's "This is it". 7Digital (MP3 Download): £10.99 CDWow (physical CD): £10.99

WTF? why are these the same price? There must be some cost saving with having no physical media to ship!

 

Perhaps more emphasis on becoming a "fan", and getting rewarded for purchasing songs (other than the song) - perhaps extra content/videos etc from the artist via their website.

There are some bands I try to buy their CDs, and a little more personal involvement would be pretty neat.

 

I guess this won't work for Hollywood. I can't really see Michael Bay personally thanking fans for buying Armegeddon II ! lol

 

I guess the main labels have turned music into a commodity, and are now wondering why its not respected by the punters.

 

 

Anyway- sorry for Ramblings!

Jason

 

[MintyDave 0]

Q1 - yes! Reason - i believe file sharers need educating on the true impact of their actions. Not every artist is bound for super stardom and financial security for the rest of their lives. many work extremely hard, touring endlessly just to earn a living. many work hard for years in show business and wind up selling burgers etc after popularity diminshes. I believe its the management structure that benefits greatly from an artists sucess, as one burns out they pick up another. If file sharing stopped and sales increased in comparison then perhaps the price of music could drop to discourage file sharing therefore giving the artist something rather than nothing.

 

Q2 - file sharers are both in a way - thieving music fans. They want an artists material but are not willing to pay for it therefore they are stealing it. However they are not true music fans as a true fan would support an artist by purchasing their material and going to their concerts. Do file sharers go to concerts?

 

i remember going to see a band from the US who were on a small uk tour. They did not have financial backing from multi million dollar corporations and actually made nothing. They ended the tour with a small unplugged gig which they invited everybody who had been to see them previously and charged £1 (ticket stubs required). We had chance to speak to the band as they were happy to mingle after the performance. I bought both Cd's, 3 t'shirts as well as every other item of promotional material the band had. Sadly most of the memorabelia has gone but the Cd's remain as do the memories!

Thats what a real music fan does!

 

Mike Tramp's - Freak Of Nature.....What a band!

[stardust 0]

My day job involves visiting the public and fixing their computers..

 

On average at least 80% of computers i look at have Limewire or similar installed - the most shocking thing is that

the majority of these users are not kids - They are adults and a lot of pensioners.

 

It is now a way of life for the average computer user / joe public..

 

I personally do not think the public are at fault - everything is free for them! from typing in free music/peer to peer/limewire etc in Google - to installing the program and then searching for your favourite artist or latest movie - clicking search and Boom!!

Let's be honest - If something is Free (and the chances of getting caught are very very slim) the majority of people will Jump at the chance.

 

I do not think it is Rocket Science for a regulation body (be it government or a private body) to actually have the authority or technology to block and stop illegal file downloads.

 

Public awareness is nonsense! there may be a few people who acknowledge what is right and wrong (especially us DJ's who want to be legit and remain to be legal)

- If the "Artist" or Record Company want to stop this then they need to gang up on the government and put some strict preventions and guidelines in place.

 

Well that's my opinion anyway :) peace.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MintyDave 0]

My day job involves visiting the public and fixing their computers..

 

On average at least 80% of computers i look at have Limewire or similar installed

 

Wow - never thought it would be that common. An interesting question Would you say that if these sites were non existant you wouldnt have to fix so many pc's - assuming you are doing software fixes that is. If they are picking up viruses by using such sites then what a shame!

[DJTREV 0]

I am going to take the typical 'British' attitude on this one and say that I cant really be arsed with it all.

The technology and means are there to able people to do these things.If they can get away with it they will.

But there is one thing that I will say that Dave mentioned.

When anybody choses their profession there is no gaurantee of everlasting wage.The only thing you do know is that you will recieve a wage at the end of the week/month while you are employed in a 9-5 job.

Now if you decide to go self employed the chances are that you might struggle to get work.It's your decision but its no good coming out and bleating about not getting any money and struggling.In the case of people supplying a service I would have a deal of sympathy but in the case of your struggling band member I am afraid I have very little sympathy.I may get flamed for this but I do look on entertainers the same way as I do for footballers and golfers.Its more of a well paid hobby than a job.The better you are at your hobby will result in whether you can make a decent living out of it.

Back to our band.By the very nature of the job it means you are going to have to work bloody hard.Unless you are a successful 'star' you cant just make a record and sit back on your a:cense:e and watch the money roll in.

[FrankieJ 0]

This goes way back to when people sold knocked of goods or replicas from the boots of their cars, unfortunately its the way of life these days and what ever the government try to do there are some clever folks out there that will always be one step ahead of them.

 

Plus it doesn’t just stop at music or films, how many people can actually say that they have never used or is using a dodgy copy of either windows, Dreamweaver, Adobe Pro will they also be clamping down on this as there are hundreds of Torrent sites out there providing this material.

 

If these record companies sold music at a reasonable rate then I think the piracy would halve.

Personally I like buying music, for me it's kind of a hobby but it is frustrating when you buy the CD legitimately and then they have the cheek to ask for yet more money to pay for licenses like Pro Dub.

 

[Robster 0]

Every week i am asked for songs that have not officially been released but the people marketing them are promoting them via radio or video of youtube etc my customers have the material from dodgy downloads on there phones before i can go out and legally buy it or legally download it. yes we can get promo only sometimes but not all the time.

 

 

Every week if asked for a track and i say sorry i dont have that album track(which is often never released as a official single) the customer say cant you download it ..they see a laptop and presume i just illegally download everything or can just stream it.

 

At one time DJ's had collections they were proud off now the customers often have bigger collections than i do.

 

 

I like many djs have spend 1000's on media in my case i am obsessive about karaoke and what has taken me years to obtain takes some people a few days to download.

 

I personally fear its too late , that we have gone past the tipping point a few years ago.

 

DJ's do actively promote music. I often get asked who was that by etc and people used to then buy the track now they put it in a search engine and get it in high quality in minutes by stealing it.

 

Picking on DJ's who have bought original discs and asking them to pay to dub/convert them is just a sticking plaster on a wound with a bone sticking out IMHO.

 

I personally think that now there are less overheads in digital music distribution than actually selling media in a store that if the tracks were cheaper torrents would slowly decline as Frankiej says if the music was at high quality, fast legal download with the rights for DJ performance and the cost was low enough torrents would have a hard time justifying there existence.

 

I personally would like to see a a different new DJ licence(scrap the produb for the loyal customers who bought the music legally once already) that allowed membership to all the record companies new releases and existing tracks at discounted rates as priority customers , this licence would have to be cheap enough for pub djs earning on average £100 (rough guess) a gig to afford but also not so cheap that average consumers would buy it to get pre release material .(something like £500) The licence would allow discounted purchase of vinyl ,CD or digital formats , if the dj bought enough each year it would effectively pay for itself from the dj point of view.

 

They would then need to absolutely police it with any dj performing publicly without the licence to be prosecuted with heavy penalties and venues being prosecuted also if they hired or allowed a dj to perform who didn't have the licence.This would stop the dodgy DJ's who do download collections from carrying on these are often the people distributing there collections via torrents or via copied hard drives. Genuine DJ's who buy there music are in my experience the last to trade tracks.

 

The fact that we really haven't got a dj dedicated distribution channel from all the record companies shows they really haven't realised we are some of there most regular and reliable customers ..no other industry would ignore such a larger customer base ...

 

There is a reason many have turned to torrents to get there media its because the legal sources haven't got there acts together IMHO.

This licence would i think mean that

 

I would like the music industry royalties people rather than looking at us as all pirates or as a cash cow but to see us as partners in promoting the music of the people they should be representing ie the artists.

 

[Teez 0]

I think the music industry is clutching at straws.

 

It's not the music or the audience that is the issue, it is the technology that is available that makes this whole thing a nonsense.

 

It's like saying that you need a license to speak English. The media is freely available and can be learnt/copied by anyone.

 

I point the finger at the hardware and software manufacturers that have enabled people to copy and convert files. If any levies need to be added it's to the manufacturers of the equipment that should be the focus. (There is plenty of precedent on this)

 

Having been once part of a self-regulating body, I know that bottom line no government is going to pass legislation that is a vote loser (and I can guarantee that this topic is a vote winner/loser) so they will be seen to be doing the right thing, liaise with the industry and do what they can, ultimately declaring that it's better that the Music Industry sorts this out for themselves.

 

Guns etc are licensed, why not hard drives? Does the music need to be created in binary format? Can't the music industry come up with a different code? Look at HDTV for example. How about a USB dongle that the publc buys/subscribes to that unlocks the appropriate code. Problem is this costs money and the music industry would rather spend cheap and continue to whinge about music theft rather than get on and solve the problem.

 

The music industry has three or four labels that people associate with it (in no particular order)

 

- Run out of ideas so let's dig out the cover versions

- Look and TV/Video ratings are more important than singing/musical skills

- Moan, bloody moan about illegal copies/downloads

 

Copying, however, is here to stay!! Ever since my mum put the microphone of her reel to reel tape recorder next to the speaker of her Decca record player in the '60s there was no turning back.

 

I agree about the sticking plaster and the fact that the industry is going for the easy targets (music professionals) when in fact the massive issue is the public in general.

 

I think the artists should be focussing their entire energy on getting their recording company that signed them up to sort this out and not play the poverty routine with a public that frankly couldn't give a to$$.

 

Amen ( I clearly have too much time on my hands!!)

 

:djurant:

Edited October 29, 2009 by Teez

[UKHero 0]

I agree with most of the points mentioned above. And as some one who has worked in a band as well as with bands, can understand what is being said. But on a side point. If people in the mainstream music business were making such a loss and having to live in poverty would they still be in the business?

 

The music business is part of the arts. Many artists of old died pennyless, I am talking of the historic greats in music art theatre and literature (not saying our artists of today should go the same way).

 

Today Music has stoped being an art form and become celebrity and fame driven, its all about money. Not the music, the song writing skills, the quality of the vocal or the high production values....

 

Look at Simon Cowel and the X factor. He is a multi millionaire and has houndreds of thousands of people begging to audition for him, most of whom would be thrown out of a back street pub karaoke competition.

 

The music business moguels who have run the industry since the 1960's are indeed the crooks here. They used to rip off the artists some still do, But now many artists are wise to this so they choose to rip off the public, Now the public has a way to surcumvent the industry bosses they are not happy.

 

Also the product today is generally shocking an album produced with two saleable songs on it and the rest fillers.

 

The industry is short changing the public and now crying foul. They are only interested in bolstering the bank balance not the public and how to win them back on side.

 

The PRS have started clamping down on little shops who have the radio on in the background many shops now are silent because of this.

 

All my life when I have visited the hair dressers, the dentist, the doctor or been in a greasy spoon the radio has been a background atmospheric friend to all but the music business has crushed this.

 

I think artists have got to embrace the MP3 and use it as a tool now not a commodity. Music will now have to be cheap or yes free to get a fan base and in turn get people to go to the concerts that is where an artists future is IMHO.

 

The sooner the music industry as we know it dies including PRS, PPL, MCPS and ProDub the better IMHO.