Cheap Wedding Disco?

[vokf 0]

Cheap Wedding Disco?

 

I recently posted a gig for a wedding. I asked the budget and was told they normally pay £130 for 7-midnight.

This is not really a post about DJ price/quality - so please keep that in mind. That said, it IS a low price for my area for a Wedding.

As a comparison, in this area normal pub gigs are £150+

 

Now - after looking at the venues website, I could see they were offering £1K wedding packages, so the budget makes sense (from their view).

 

I remember Dan was posting dire predictions for DJs on the back of these £1K wedding packages.

However, as of 8pm last night, the venue still has not found a DJ for a Wedding booking they have taken for this coming Saturday.

 

In this instance, it could be dire for the Venue (who will not be named)

I wonder if a DJ called them Friday night and offered the job for £250, would they accept, or let down the client?

 

 

I think the package idea is fine - people have a nice fixed idea of price, and normally its fairly clear what they will get for their money.

Some DJ's offer packages - Bronze/Silver/Gold - to indicate extra bits of kit or services.

Whilst some may worry that this restricts choice, some others do well from having some standard pricing on view.

 

So - a few £1K packages I've seen have been;

-Wedding Breakfast for 50 guests (3 course meal)

-A glass of wine with the meal

-A glass of "bubbly" for toasts

-Disco

 

 

Bearing in mind, a £1K package is very price sensitive - and those that go for this may not see the value in paying £1500 for;

-Wedding Breakfast for 50 guests (4 course meal)

-A glass of decent wine with the meal

-A glass of Champagne for toasts

-Quality Disco (i.e., of the type any DJU member could provide)

 

So - if this became a problem (ie hitting your market), what would you do?

a. Ignore!

b. Speak to Venue, offering a superior service that they could mark-up (so possibly my above example of £1500)

c. Try to become their resident..£130 is fine for regular work (could be ok if they provide in-house PA+lighting, so its a walk-in job).

 

 

At the moment, I don't see this becoming a big problem in my area, some venues may take this route, but they will then hit supplier problems with DJ's taking better jobs, unless they are paying fair rates. (ie, at least competing with pub rates)

The £1K package is ok for smaller places (drinks and accommodation will make up their earnings), and the larger more up-market places would probably prefer to stay fairly exclusive - providing their overheads are met!

 

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

[Robster 0]

Having previously worked in retail for 14 years ..never underestimate the customers ability to complain when buying a genuine bargain.

 

Some customers will expect £20,000 wedding for £1000 , In my experience these type of people are attracted to value packages and Deals and are the sort who shop on price but then haggle, complain to get even more for there money..everyone likes a deal but some want the moon on a stick.

These are the type of people who fly Ryan air / easy jet then moan about extras costing

 

The pub DJ's already on £130 or less doesn't want the extra hassle and pressure so would you want host a pub night to regulars who you get to know and play songs you 100% know they like, get to play non cheesy different songs and lets be honest some pub dj's get cash in hand gigs with no need for pli or pat from the venue.also the venue and punters are not bothered about how tidy your rig is or what lights you have

 

or pressure from the venue and customers on every aspect of your business

pressure to get timings and dances correct , to organise first dance father daughter son mother , stag hen dances to deal with older relatives who want motown all night when the playlist is all modern ,requests for songs so obscure only three copies of it were ever sold but because you couldn't get it when asked 11pm on the night you become the worst DJ in the world then the venue wanting you to pack up and clear the room quicker than is humanly possible etc.. etc.

 

£130 seems a good rate of pay to a lot of jobs but there is a reason the response to get a DJ for a wedding at that rate doesn't have a large queue and its not just about the money

 

 

They probably would be tempted if it was £200 but then the more wedding orientated specialists would be hired any way so its a bit of a catch 22.

 

so my feeling is to take option b , talk to the venue work on a better thought out package so the customer gets REAL value for money and a service that will meet expectations.

Edited September 1, 2010 by Robster

[centrestagediscos 0]

one of the hotels around my area have actually bought there own equipment mainly from maplins which although at the lower end of the price market does the job it was bought for ie loud enough for the room and enough lights to give decent coverage on the dancefloor but they have trained there bar staff to use it and they now use them to dj there functions unless the customer brings in an outside disco, the guys who do this get the same hourly rate as they would if they were working behind the bar and the only previous experience they had was from what they had seen at previous functions while working the bar until one night a dj did not turn up for a booking so the hotel provided a quickly put together cd player and cds type night to save the night this gave the hotel the idea that they could do it themselves, and i know a lot of people go for the in house option, and finally the hotel that has done this is at the upper end of the market.

[Dukesy 0]

Guys, this all harks back to what I've been saying for the last 12 months. Clients are starting to twig on that we are a bunch of unskilled individuals with some flashing lights and a nice sound system and that anybody can set up tomorrow and take the same name as we do - I'm a DJ.

By 'unskilled', I refer to the fact that we have attended no formal training courses, nor have we spent years revising our subject before plying our trade and then taken a formal exam in order to join a regulatory body of which we must legally be a member in order to trade in the public domain.

 

Now its not even clients who are starting to see this, it's venues too!

 

Let me put this into context, when you start your first bar job, you will spend at least one day working alongside the bar manager or another long term member of staff in order to 'learn' how to pull a perfect pint, how to use the till / automatic inventory system and if you are lucky enough, you might have to revise the law behind weights and measures, stock taking, health and safety and maybe even cellar work like changing barrels, in short you will usually get SOME kind of in-house training on the job, which you can then take to your next bar job and suddenly you have a form of trade.

 

Being an in-house DJ derived from the general house staff, in some venues you probably won't get even the most basic of experience, just dragged from behind the comfort zone of the bar and shown your 'new' Saturday duties behind the gear and how to switch it all on, where the start / stop buttons are and then left by your management to get on with it!. Go Entertain the masses!

 

Sadly, our skills are largely the unseen ones which won't earn any certificates from a University. How do you sit an exam on an individual personality (?) when we are all different, have differing personalities and our own individual ways and skills of working a crowd?

You can't! Its impossible and it will never happen. And how do you promote and portray all of these unseen skills to increasing numbers of members of the public who are purely buying on price and who think that being a DJ is just about loading CD's and pressing buttons in order to keep a constant stream of music?, how do we promote our skills to venues as being value for money? and how can we guarantee a healthy financial return for the money and trust that venue management have shown by booking our services over the many other entities available to them, including the services of their own staff?

 

Unfortunately, a skilled trade as far as the public are concerned will inevitably always be the visible type where you sacrifice 2, 3 or 5 years of your life to spend at college or university and work hard to finally obtain a certificate which allows you to earn a living from that field.

 

Going out with some wonga to the local Maplin or Disco Shop and buying £2,000 worth of the latest gear is never really going to win the deepest respect of the public, compared to somebody who has maybe spent 2 years studying at college for a in order to work 60 hours a week on shifts wiping the backsides of Elderly residents in a care home for £6.25 / hour!

There really is no 'Florence Nightingale' comparison as far as effort and sacrifice between the two in the public eye is concerned is there!?

 

In most day jobs, gaining a promotion which see's you further up the ladder of your career often means putting in long hours, brown nosing around the boss and making yourself available for extra tasks and many years of crawling and putting yourself out.

In our occupation, in order to become accredited or gain a promotion, we skip all of that and just write a cheque for PLI and an Association membership and stick it on our websites like some industry award and think it is a great marketing opportunity to justify what we charge or the increase in fee's that we are about to 'test'.

 

Well, its true.

 

For the last 30 years or so, we've had it good, with some of our ilk basking in their ego's - milking and just loving every minute of it. Now, along comes a recession where venues and clients alike are struggling to earn a living, management of venues have to prove to their superiors evidence of cost cutting and justify their positions and all expenditure to head office in order to keep the security of their own jobs and suddenly we aren't needed, loved, adored and 'appreciated' any more, and these days we are expected to work harder in order to prove and demonstrate our worth, and justify our fees, whether that fee is £70 or £700. Its not personal, its called Commerce, and the fact that for every £100 a venue manager may spend in outlay, he / she is expected to recoup £200 in extra revenue over the bar, if they don't then they'll be out on their ear and on a dole queue whilst the Brewery bring in some newly qualified 20 year old whiz-kid who can. Its a law of survival, and whilst DJ's may be happy working 1 or 2 evenings a week plying their trade as a hobby, the venues want to run a hugely profit making 24/7 - 365 days a year business.

 

Add into the equation all of the bad karma which others have put out on our behalf and in doing so, have cheapened the industry, made it lower quality and less widely respected, and its now biting us hard on the ass.

 

Still, at least the venue Jason mentioned can replace a contracted DJ with another human being. It could be worse, you could be being replaced by a NEC Powermate or little box in the corner like this:- http://www.mediatheme.com/  or this:- http://www.touch-master.co.uk/ or one of the many plethora of new gadgets aimed at providing 'complete' 7 day a week entertainment and advertising in pubs, function rooms and clubs.

Most of these services are at exhibitions and hospitality events where nearly all managers and specifies will attend at least once or twice in their careers and they are all competing for our slice of the pie.

 

I suppose its also fair to say that the salespeople working 39 hours a week on the road for these companies and visiting venues are much better at selling and marketing their product and are spending more time actively doing so than DJ's! spend marketing themselves.

If you think that this type of market is growing or isn't happening, and this 'won't catch on', then simply Google the name of the systems, and see how many venues are actively using them and promoting the system on their websites to clients, in the same skewed way that some DJ's promote their accreditations - i.e. venues with Mediatheme systems are better than venues with DJ's.

 

If you are too lazy to Google here are a few working examples!

 

http://www.navigationinn.co.uk/index.php?o...n=entertainment

http://www.schoonerhotelamble.co.uk/schooner_pub_amble.php

http://officialpubguide.com/pubdetails.php?pubid=4397

http://www.britishpubguide.com/cgi-bin/pub...nchester:101122

 

Think about it, these venues now using these automated entertainment systems all used to employ the services of a local DJ, maybe one of them was 'you' and now you've been replaced with a box costing as little as £70 a week, and providing all-in-one entertainment such as Bingo, Disco, Karaoke, Video Disco, Pop Quizzes, Race Nights plus 24/7 venue advertising, and that £70 a week includes new music, karaoke updates and all of the quiz updates you'll ever need!

Of course, you can bury your head in the sand, pretend its not happening and rubbish every word I type or put it down to what some of you seem to think is 'Dan's Depression', and instead, place your worries, concerns and priorities into other areas...........

 

Pssst - Anybody know where I can buy some cheap PLI ? smile icon

[Rothgar 0]

I've never seen those two automated systems before but I can see how a pub or hotel may well be drawn to them.

[Robster 0]

In reply to Dan's post

 

Promoting what i do is very very difficult. The next lot will sound very big headed but it is about promoting what I do

 

My son is a graphic designer and he couldn't get the look right of what I do either

I am a karaoke host ..but not a tacky one but the look and stereotype of karaoke is tacky neon lights and people singing endless Elvis songs its almost impossible to create images and copy that says both karaoke and quality.There is not one site from a independent that catches the spirit of fun of karaoke but isnt childish looking with bright tacky colours and shows high end quality

 

I also am a personality DJ (another can of worms on forums), someone who has banter with customers but marketing this and summing it up so i don't come across either Smashy and Nicey or irritating chatter box but accurately portray that i find a balance and say little but to great effect when i do speak and i read a crowd and know how far i can go , never being crass or too rude .... but effectively marketing this and summing it up is again almost impossible.

 

I am a perfectionist for preparing for functions but do customers really want to know that? and how quantifiable is that?

 

Luckily as i tried to put in a earlier post a while back many are obsessed with non legal requirements and what light etc where i have found ,improving my skills of performance have been the best way of promoting my services as my gigs are mainly public bars and public hotel bars i have built up reputations which mean work has come through recommendation and other landlords actively wanting my services.

 

I see my role not as a music technician but as a performer. I get the impression many DJ's see themselves as a professional music technician . anyone can learn to operate equipment but not everyone can be a performer this i feel is my unique selling point. venues will replace expensive music technicians with gear and a minimum wage employee if all the DJ does is play a few tunes with Automix.

I don't blame them i would if that's all the DJ was doing.

 

some DJs sites read like a anorak accountant has written them in fact my own does in parts all the fun of a party is sucked out of it by terms conditions and pat this pli that and all the usual stuff we think is important and also to often impress our peers not our customers

 

The problems i face are i find that hard to communicate all this in marketing (but as i have Thursdays Fridays once a month Saturdays (with a few private gigs on sat) and Sundays booked and the odd Tuesday in Oct and Dec i am honestly not that worried i feel i have worked hard on my performance reputation and that's what will get me work not accreditations or bits of paper or some new certificate of competence

 

A machine in the corner is not massive competition to what I do. If it was i genuinely feel that i should look at my performance skills or the type of show I am hosting. Functions don't lend themselves to performance DJ's so for me i am glad i have a toe in pub land and functions , i have seen a lot of pub DJ's and function DJ's who had all the gear and all the music sell up and go mainly they had the performance personality of a dead fish but were really nice people they just didn't have a spark when performing. These are smart intelligent nice people but they just dont see they are not performers.

 

I have been in "training" for years taking insults and knock backs , physical abuse , dancing around internal political management squabbles and learning from all these varied situations. i have still lots of "training" to do but to get to where i am now you couldnt get a a kid from behind the bar to do what i do in a night.

 

sorry to sound arrogant but I genuinely believe that.

 

Gadget came to my gig recently and he saw and heard some scoucers i met that night Chanting "Rob Star is a legend !" I can't see them doing that to a box in a corner or a kid on minimum wage show gear that night.

 

 

 

 

[Dukesy 0]

I also am a personality DJ (another can of worms on forums), someone who has banter with customers

 

A machine in the corner is not massive competition to what I do. If it was i genuinely feel that i should look at my performance skills or the type of show I am hosting

 

I have been in "training" for years taking insults and knock backs , physical abuse , dancing around internal political management squabbles and learning from all these varied situations. i have still lots of "training" to do but to get to where i am now you couldn't get a a kid from behind the bar to do what i do in a night.

 

Exactly! All of my points neatly summed up in a nutshell. However its not me nor other DJs to whom you have to promote the value of these skills to as (hopefully) we are already aware of how these traits set us apart from faceless machines and inexperienced individuals and will be actively capitalising on them. However its managers of venues, and their bosses and ultimately the owner of the venue somewhere down the line that we have to constantly convince, and yes, of course the ugly world of profits and accounts will come into the equation.

 

I'm not exaggerating when I state that every action and outlay made by some venues these days often has to have a corresponding positive linear increase in revenue as a result. So for example, if a venue is struggling with just 30 'regular's' in on a Wednesday night taking £300 in wet sales, which barely keeps the venue lit and the heating on (let alone the bar staff paid), then if the manager suggests to the owner that £100 (1/3 of that nights' total takings) should be spent on a DJ in order to try and increase the nights takings to £600+, then you'd better be sure that as a DJ, we deliver the goods for them, and build up the night in order to increase that number of punters from 30 to 60 (example) and increase the corresponding revenue over the bar, in order to justify continually utilising our services. After all, if we don't make it work that time, the venue may decide never bother using a DJ again.

 

So its not surprising that some venues lack confidence in the 'jukebox in the corner'/ cardboard DJ who rarely uses the mic, or engages the punters to increase their revenue and the number of punters any more than a decent Jukebox or MTV on the big screen TV would!.

 

In a lot of cases, if the idea backfires and the numbers through the door don't increase and actually ends up costing the venue that 1/3 in takings through paying the DJ's fee, then we will be out of the door and its the managers' future and reputation on the line.

You can see why its attractive for them to put a member of staff behind the decks, after all, its using labour which is otherwise already 'bought and paid for' in his / her salary in order to provide some form of entertainment and with little gamble or risk financially. Sure, they are risking the satisfaction of the punters on the night, but like I've said before, Joe Public generally doesn't see, value or prioritise our services in the same light and importance as we often do.

 

So, whilst you are 'in' a venue and have a following and are essentially returning the venue an income which exceeds your outlay, then you are relatively safe. However if you find yourself back out in the market place and entering the DJ Job Market once again and looking for another client / venue, you are, essentially just one of many faces and fee's out there. So how do you convince somebody who has never met you, let alone booked you or witnessed you work to choose your services over and above the 1,000 other DJ's with websites, or that £70 fully serviced and updated 'box' in the corner. What are the skills, processes and criteria for promoting oneself when in that situation?, because simply 'telling' somebody over the phone / on an email about how wonderful you are, sometimes just isn't enough.

 

That was the original question that my post was posing.

[Robster 0]

 

 

So how do you convince somebody who has never met you, let alone booked you or witnessed you work to choose your services over and above the 1,000 other DJ's with websites, or that £70 fully serviced and updated 'box' in the corner. What are the skills, processes and criteria for promoting oneself when in that situation?, because simply 'telling' somebody over the phone / on an email about how wonderful you are, sometimes just isn't enough.

 

That was the original question that my post was posing.

 

I was quite recently in that predicament over the last year i lost a venue I absolutely loved , i loved the customers , the landlord and landlady it was for me a match made in heaven. The brewery and the landlord had a legal dispute and the brewery basically paid the landlord off . they moved out and i was left with a Friday and Saturday un booked.

I still had my Thursday gig at the hotel but things were going to be difficult!

 

I got asked to cover a gig for a dj friend who was packing it in on a Friday and did improve the numbers but unfortunately some of the new people though shooting a shotgun in the car park was a good idea so i packed in that venue

 

luckily my reputation was going to prove to be my marketing .

 

a venue local heard from regulars who frequented my old loved venue and this new one that i was available , they personally had never seen me perform but they me gave me a once a month spot on a Saturday because they knew i would bring in customers and fill the till so that helped a little..

 

a DJ acquaintance from that new venue heard i was free on a saturday nights which i was never previously as i was busy doing my residency and needed cover for his gig at a different venue as he was going on holiday. I turned up and covered his gig, within the first hour the landlord asked me to do regular Sunday afternoons he had tested several DJ's for one off's but liked me and what i did . The Sundays have turned from literally a old couple (two people) at the bar to a regular drinking crowd. Now the Friday night DJ has decided to pack it in so they asked me to do Fridays from the 10th. Non of this was just luck or being at the right place at the right time (although that is also a big factor)

 

So as you can see it was a combination of friends networking and my performance skills and a opportunity to show what i could do, i have a proven ability to put more money in the till and that is enough for a lot of landlords

 

As i said previously i have absolutely no idea how to put this across in type, website or email or how to market what I do if things do dry up again . I guess i am coming across in this post as a big head , I am uncomfortable saying a lot of this stuff but i also believe that if i put 100% into my gigs work will appear and some how it always has! i have faith and belief in my ability , fine line between confidence and arrogance i know.

 

I used to work in retail and if i was promoting myself for i job i have no problem in showing facts and figures on how i improved sales and that i met and exceeded every target that was ever given to me as a retail manager and area manager.

 

I do though see a direct correlation between money in the till and the ability to pay me as a DJ, and I do use that a lot when I meet landlords and managers, I like face to face meetings and i have been to venues to see managers and chat about the possibility of me working at there venue as well as my performance i describe instances where i have made nights busier and i also mention my realisation that they want to make as much profit as possible.

 

Again i know many DJ's who shy away from the" bringing in more people marketing line" as 1 they don't like to brag 2 they are worried they may not at that venue and 3 they possibly have not actually done that but killed previous venue off!

 

If work dried up again I guess i would do the odd free gig to show the venue what i am capable of ,I would only do this after a face to face meeting , I wouldn't do this by a email or mail shot or phone call ,My service is a face to face one ,that's what i do best , emails and phone calls are not the best marketing medium for me so going seeing venues physically seems the logical step for my situation. i know i am good value for money and yes i may run the risk of working a few nights for nothing but a regular spot would soon make that free one worth while. This obviously doesn't work for one off functions

 

I am sure the box in a corner people have trial periods , my product is good enough to stand up to that competition. but as to how to market via a site etc i havent a clue and i haven't seen any examples anywhere by anyone else, where people have effectively marketed those skills.

 

I feel my website is one among 1000's and one in a billion DJ directories ,all with sites saying the same stuff no one else has my reputation and performance skills .

 

I have never driven a Bugatti or owned one , i have never seen their website or had a flyer or seen a tv ad or seen a press ad or had an email..The reputation of the brand sells itself. you build reputation by repetition doing what you do over and over again and doing it well or trying to be the best you can. If your reputation is good enough you get customers coming to you is my theory .A Veyron would be on my shopping list if I had a Euro millions roll-over win!

 

I too would also know how to market these DJ unique performance skills without looking tacky .........anyone?

 

.

 

[spinner 0]

In my experience the main consideration of venues is price.

 

I do occasional gigs for an agent I know. He has gained hotel contracts by undercutting other agents by a few pounds per gig and has lost some by being undercut himself.

 

I market to private clients only, not venues, although I'm fortunate enough to be recommended by some.

 

My target market is weddings and this year is most definitely nowhere near as good as any of the last 10. Enquiry levels have been much lower.

 

 

[PWES 0]

- Anybody know where I can buy some cheap PLI ? smile icon

 

I may know a man who could assist with that.... ;-) Ring me for a totally poptastic unbeatable deal of the day !

 

So - if this became a problem (ie hitting your market), what would you do?

a. Ignore!

b. Speak to Venue, offering a superior service that they could mark-up (so possibly my above example of £1500)

c. Try to become their resident..£130 is fine for regular work (could be ok if they provide in-house PA+lighting, so its a walk-in job).

Any thoughts?

 

I don't think my area (South East) will be affected anytime soon, but you never know..

 

Knee jerk reaction - A: I cant be doing with people who don't value what I do (big headed YES, but I have enough experience and customer service to warrant a higher price than 130

 

I would however try to speak wth venue and get my normal price (445) built into their package, and work with them to market it

 

regular gig or not, I am not leaving my sofa for anywhere near 130, even last minute, but thanks for your call !

[Robster 0]

 

Knee jerk reaction - A: I cant be doing with people who don't value what I do (big headed YES, but I have enough experience and customer service to warrant a higher price than 130

 

 

I like this ! I do not think it is big headed at all ! You have a firm belief that you offer a good product at a price you and your customers see is good value.

 

Again when i was in retail we often had sales people who could not sell the high end products , they panicked and because they personally wouldnt pay for example £14,500 for the first Panasonic 50" plasma tv's to come into the UK they felt no one else would. I knew some customers want the latest and greatest and i knew in 10 years they would be cheap as chips and so did those customers but they wanted something no one else had and the wow factor so i happily sold more than anyone in my company.

 

as a one man band i don't sell at the high end and my performance skill i don't think match those types of clients , functions or venues.. my business model is pile em high sell em cheap and under sell my service and over deliver service to a certain sector of the market but it is nice to see people with belief in what they do and the courage of there convictions ..so not big headed at all Pete just sticking to what you do and doing it well.

 

I admit i am cheap and proud of the end of the market i service, what i find strange is when people boast about always doing loads of mega bucks gigs when in reality they are doing infrequent pub function rooms etc at peanuts there are quite a few in my area non from forums I visit i hasten to add. but some of the guys in my area seem to believe bull is there best form of marketing. these are the sort who would take up the hotel on the £130 gigs but tell everyone they are on £500 .

Edited September 2, 2010 by Robster

[vokf 0]

I admit i am cheap and proud of the end of the market i service, what i find strange is when people boast about always doing loads of mega bucks gigs when in reality they are doing infrequent pub function rooms etc at peanuts there are quite a few in my area non from forums I visit i hasten to add. but some of the guys in my area seem to believe bull is there best form of marketing. these are the sort who would take up the hotel on the £130 gigs but tell everyone they are on £500 .

 

Perhaps that where I'm going wrong! lol

Happy to admit to playing my local this month for £160, but Saturdays Wedding is about 2.5 x that.

I don't really see any reason to lie or inflate things like this. The guys mis-leading everyone by suggesting they are on £500 gigs will not be in the list for any spare £200 gigs...

 

Big difference in prep and service - I CAN (and will) play Ramones in the Pub, not for a wedding (unless requested... hopefully one day.. lol).

Wedding is strictly for the couple and the guests - and luckily I have a good play-list from them.

 

 

I don't think Marketing is being big headed - its being confident in what you offer. I don't like to see "guarantee the best night!", of "the best DJ" - this is down the opinion of the client.

I prefer to state what's on offer, how we work and a bunch of pictures and testimonials.

 

 

If I were asked "why should be book you", the answer can only be based on FACT - not "I'm the best".

Most good bookings come from a personal touch - so meeting people, chatting on the phone to the point they are not interviewing you!

There is a line- not being too friendly (sales guys asking after the family etc.. uggh!), but being seen to be helpful - using your knowledge to make their life easier.

 

 

I may consider contacting the venue and offering a higher quality service for a more suitable rate. Obviously they can mark it up as they wish.

If I do this - I'll probably create a new post and discuss how things are going.. I don't know what would happen if a couple wanted good wine+better food, would they accommodate? If so, could they actually offer a more personal DJ?

 

Whilst its possible, I assume that couples don't get the flexibility they see from booking a DJ themselves. So, no chance of extra services, major input into the music, or even meeting the DJ.

 

The process of booking a £1K wedding may be a simple as booking a table in your local Indian Restaurant!

 

[PWES 0]

...i hasten to add. but some of the guys in my area seem to believe bull is there best form of marketing. these are the sort who would take up the hotel on the £130 gigs but tell everyone they are on £500 .

 

There are are two main things about DJs I've found irritate me a lot - Bull5h1t and apathy

 

 

 

I feel new thread coming on - 'Biggest DJ lies' such as "I've never had an empty dancefloor"

 

[Dukesy 0]

In my experience the main consideration of venues is price.

 

Well hopefully they've been around long enough already to realise the four commandments of entertainment! Often clients and venues find them out the hard way.

There are....

 

Discos who are cheap

Discos who are cheap and reputable

Discos who are expensive

Discos who are expensive and reputable

 

My target market is weddings and this year is most definitely nowhere near as good as any of the last 10. Enquiry levels have been much lower.

 

I'd agree and identify with that. It also ties in with several media stories which I found and linked to on another thread relating to the wedding industry and the decline in the numbers of people getting married.

 

I've known venues who are perfectly happy to employ the type of Dj who just prevents gaps between tracks and plays requests for the punters, I've also come across plenty of private clients who book a DJ with the same philosophy and actually stipulate that they don't want a 'chatty' DJ or loads of high-tech lighting.

 

He has gained hotel contracts by undercutting other agents by a few pounds per gig and has lost some by being undercut himself.

 

Does he do this with the full knowledge and approval of the entertainers on his books? Personally, I wouldn't want to be represented by any agency who was so cavalier in relation to other peoples' money as to get into a 'Dutch auction'! without first counsulting with those whose fee's he was happily reducing. If he has to compete purely on price, then clearly he's lacking experience in marketing.

Most DJ's join an agency in order to pay them a commission in order to do the marketing that they aren't able or willing to do for themselves, and to capitalise on the skills and efforts of their agents ability to get them an honest nights pay in return for an honest nights work.

When you have an agency who seems to have less acumen and is less business savvy than the DJ's on their books, then I can see a disaster waiting to happen. If he's undercutting other agents on the basis of reducing his 'cut' then fine, however he shouldn't be gambling with other people's income as some kind of face saving exercise, It always ends in tears.

 

what i find strange is when people boast about always doing loads of mega bucks gigs when in reality they are doing infrequent pub function rooms etc at peanuts there are quite a few in my area non from forums I visit i hasten to add

 

There are, sadly, quite a few on forums also Rob. I could give you loads of working examples over the years and link to various threads also where DJ's have openly boasted or lorded about their earnings, yet when it comes to passing on work, coincidentally the price of the work that is passed on is always significantly less than they 'usually' boast about working for!

 

I find that strange, that a client has come across their self professed 'high end' site and contacted them on the basis of obtaining a quote for THEIR services after being impressed by their top level marketing! Even if the DJ is already booked, why, suddenly, are they quoting a much LOWER rate than they usually would? After all, they are more likely to get a DJ to cover it for the client if they are offering their usual higher rate of fee, so surely they have nothing to lose if they quote their usual fee, tell the client they are fully booked but they will endeavour to find a DJ to cover at the SAME fee if they wish?

 

I really can't understand why a DJ stating on record several times as being part of  a £400 -a-gig club, then appears 6 months later passing on work to another DJ for £150, immediately shattering the illusion which they have voluntarily created previously. It becomes even less coincidental when it happens, again and again....

 

I just wish some people would start being honest with themselves and others and drop the Margo Leadbetter attitude which is cultivated in other arenas.

I know that its a type of fox hunting substitute elsewhere, in order to fill the boredom span between gigs to go find a DJ who is charging less than the majority, and then collectively belittle, ridicule and make them feel far less superior than the other members and so lying about fees in order to belong as one of the 'Jolly Boys' and run with the herd is a key part of survival, but that type of 'witch hunt over price' attitude will not be tolerated on DJU, so there is no reason to lie about your fee's here - assuming you choose to mention them (its not obligatory!)

 

Personally, I still think, that out of the four examples I gave above, that DJ's who fall into this category

 

Discos who are cheap and reputable

 

Far outrank DJ's who trade in this category

 

Discos who are expensive

 

I also treat as equals, the following groups

 

Discos who are cheap and reputable

Discos who are expensive and reputable

 

Often, the only difference is in the market to which they have chosen to pitch too and the area in which they trade. Providing the word 'reputable' appears within their public and business reputation and they have happy satisfied customers and they are themselves happy with their earnings, then its non of our business what they charge.

They clearly have worked hard to earn the respect of their clients, so they deserve nothing less than the respect of their peers and colleagues either. Agreed?

 

Surely our negativity would be better engaged by turning our collective attentions and leaning the might of solidarity onto the shoulders those who blatantly lie to or mislead clients on their websites (?), or who are rude and discourteous towards their clients both to their face and openly on forums (?) or who, provably and consistantly offer a poor level of service in relation to their professional conduct, regardless of whether they charge £50 or £500!. Although I suppose that would take effort.....

[spinner 0]

Does he do this with the full knowledge and approval of the entertainers on his books? Personally, I wouldn't want to be represented by any agency who was so cavalier in relation to other peoples' money as to get into a 'Dutch auction'! without first counsulting with those whose fees he was happily reducing. If he has to compete purely on price, then clearly he's lacking experience in marketing.

 

 

Most DJ's join an agency in order to pay them a commission in order to do the marketing that they aren't able or willing to do for themselves, and to capitalise on the skills and efforts of their agents ability to get them an honest nights pay in return for an honest nights work.

 

When you have an agency who seems to have less acumen and is less business savvy than the DJ's on their books, then I can see a disaster waiting to happen. If he's undercutting other agents on the basis of reducing his 'cut' then fine, however he shouldn't be gambling with other people's income as some kind of face saving exercise, It always ends in tears.

 

 

 

Not sure I understand all of this. He doesn't "represent" anyone exclusively but has some DJs to whom he passes work regularly and others sporadically. There is no requirement to discuss his negotiations with them and they are not bound to take work from him. By the same token he is not gambling with anyone's income. If hotel manager A says agency B has offered to supply DJs at £300 per engagement but you can have all our gigs if you charge £290 he knows that if he says no a different agency will say yes. Maybe none of the agents is any good at business but the rates (in Peterborough for example) never seem to be very good and they all seem to negotiate heavily on price. On the rare occasions when I have taken work from him he has either reduced his commission or taken none!

 

This same agent always expresses surprise at the rates I get and says he can't get them himself.

However, there is a big difference between an agent negotiating for multiple bookings from a hotel and a single operator aiming at private clients and a different market segment.

[Norfolk DJ 0]

 

I was a resident DJ in a hotel where they offered £1,000 wedding packages. The venue had rather poor in-house equipment, but they offered £160 per night and this was 3 years ago.

 

Easy peasy for the dj although the punters were on occasions rough and ready.