Leeroy F 0 Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 Right i have been informed that that using male bulgin chassis sockets is now illegal for daisy chainging those light screens and/or boxes. Now 1) How The Hell Do I Daisy Chain My Light Boxes 2) Why have the made these type of sockets illegal and 3) Are there other types of connectors i could use instead Cheers Leeroy Fairhurst http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/wallbash.gif Link to post Share on other sites
Gary 0 Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 The "standard" way of daisy~chaining light boxes was for each light box to have 2x8way bulgin female(flush) sockets on the back. You then connected them together with bulgin leads with a male bulgin plug at each end. Is this what youve got already? . Link to post Share on other sites
Leeroy F 0 Posted February 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 Gary, Im building my own spot boxes and i have already on my original light screens only 1 socket and thats a male chassis socket. What sort of price are we taking for 5m Bulgin (male) - Bulgin (male). Also where is chris when u want a deal on a pair of spot boxes Leeroy F Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisPointon 0 Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 Sorry LF - as i've pointed out before, many D.J's consider Spot & Light Boxes to be "old hat". In fact this is the first time i've been asked for spot boxes, and the 2nd time for lightboxes http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/533.gif. Bear in mind that as a distributor, I can't just get 1 or 2 items at trade price - I need to buy at least 10, (or 20, 30, 50 etc if i'm to undercut other dealers) then it doesn't justify the demand.....or should I say lack of it. Therefore I don't stock them - they won't sell and i'll be left with stock I can't shift. But Should you get 15 or 20 confirmed orders on this thread, then i'll get some in http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/smile.gif Link to post Share on other sites
YourBigEvent 0 Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 I think as long as you have femaile on the boxes and the newer type male plugs you will be OK. .....but what do I know ? Your Big Event Office:01803 813540 Direct: 0797 0717 448 e.mail:info@yourbigevent.co.uk Link to post Share on other sites
High Fidelity 0 Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 It has to be done in such a way that there can never be an exposed live connection. So if you have a connecting lead with male on both ends, it's wrong. If you plug one end of it into a live box then the other end with exposed pins becomes live and is dangerous. The way I have mine wired is that the first box is hardwired, ie: the cable comes out of the box directly and goes to a male plug which goes to the controller, and it has a female panel socket for the second box to plug into. The second box is the same as the first but with a shorter cable and no female socket. Quitting Smoking & Drinking doesn't make you live longer It just feels like it. Link to post Share on other sites
Steve 0 Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 QUOTE I think as long as you have femaile on the boxes and the newer type male plugs you will be OK. Is it not the other way around Andy? If you had female connections on the light box, then male on the lead......this would be carrying the power wouldn't it??? Im sure I had to change the connections on my screen when i first bought it. Steve Link to post Share on other sites
YourBigEvent 0 Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 What happens if you have 3 lightboxes though ? .....but what do I know ? Your Big Event Office:01803 813540 Direct: 0797 0717 448 e.mail:info@yourbigevent.co.uk Link to post Share on other sites
Leeroy F 0 Posted February 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 (edited) see its well confusing. i see how you have your boxes ads and that was the way i was thinkinon doing but it seems a bit messy. Also while im here chris can you do me 2 x BULGIN (male) to BULGIN (male) cables or supply me with the cable and the plugs so i can make my own leade. Cheers Leeroy F Edited February 4, 2004 by lfdiscos Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Smith 0 Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 Bulgin leads work on the same principle as an IEC extension lead ie male at one end and female at the other. The starting point is a male bulgin into a female socket. To link light boxes in series you have a male & female socket fitted into each box and you then use male/female leads to daisy chain them together. Any other configeration will result in either a live male lead end or a live male socket which, as the pins are exposed is VERY DANGEROUS So LF just picture that what you are asking for is the equiv of a mains lead with a 3 pin mains plug on each end ouch!!! PaulS Link to post Share on other sites
Leeroy F 0 Posted February 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 totally safe when plugged in though and no nasty live pins on the back of screens/boxes when there all on, plus you need little fingers to even touch the pins Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Smith 0 Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 QUOTE plus you need little fingers to even touch the pins As the pins are almost level with the outer case you don't need little fingers to make contact - what you are contemplating is very dangerous. If you are buying plugs & leads anyway why not do it the proper way? Link to post Share on other sites
Dukesy 0 Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 Just a suggestion..... FAO of Chris P (admin) Would it be possible to display a picture of the said lead plugs which are considered 'dangerous', and a picture of what is considered a good example replacement. (Just so that there is no further confusion or misunderstanding on the matter!!!) (sorry chris...more work) Link to post Share on other sites
High Fidelity 0 Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 QUOTE What happens if you have 3 lightboxes though ? Easy, either the 2nd box has a female socket or you have 2 female sockets on the first. QUOTE plus you need little fingers to even touch the pins I'm afraid that I agree with 5 star on this. What would happen to your PLI if it was discovered that you had unsafe wiring. Quitting Smoking & Drinking doesn't make you live longer It just feels like it. Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisPointon 0 Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 I wondered how long it would be...... http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif Confusion regins supreme with this question and there really is no right or wrong answer. Firstly, those of us who D.J'ed in the 70's to the 90's will remember those long forgotten days of using Bulgin Sockets on the back of lightboxes, and what were loosely termed as "Shrouded" square bulgin plugs consisting of a dodgy shrouded circular rows of 8 pins. Yes, it was a male plug, but since it was protected by the outer plastic case, it was considered relatively safe. In the days when Europe left us, and our electrical safety alone http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif , the old Bulgin plug and socket combination was used for around 25 years, without a thought, even though it was still possible to get a 240v jolt from an exposed pin on one of these seemingly safe bulgin plugs. I wouldn't say that the risk was comparable to a male IEC plug or a standard 13A plug - since there was SOME protection afforded by the outer casing - which made touching the pins more difficult but not impossible and certainly not safe by todays standard. Nowadays bulgin have completely re-designed their product range. The Bulgin Plug is now actually a full shrouded female socket, complete with a cord grip that doesn't take rocket science to figure out, and is made more substantial than the original cardboard ones of the 80's! http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/smile.gif. The bulgin socket is now a protruding plug which is flush mounted into a lighting effect - one plug only!, to allow connection from a controller but presenting no shock risk of an unused fitment for daisy chaining. Today if you want more than one effect connected - you run them both from a pre-wired bulgin splitter or directly into the controller - if it has 2 or more outputs!. As previously mentioned, the lightbox industry has died a death, so it isn't really an issue. Effects which still require a bulgin connection, use a single connector as mentioned above. In other words, they use a shrouded male connector to plug into a female socket on the controller, and then a female shrouded connector plugs into a single male connector on the effect. If you want to use lightboxes and comply with the new legislation then you will need to fit ONE male bulgin connector per lightbox (no daisy chaining facility). Then use a bulgin splitter to feed one bulgin lead from the controller, and then (with 3 lightboxes) have three leads coming from the splitter, each fitted with a (safe) female connector to plug into the single plug fitment of each box. Link to post Share on other sites
The Spindoctor 0 Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 I can see both sides of this argument........... however..... explain why all lightboxes sold by dealers are fitted with two female sockets???? It is the industry accepted standard to use a male to male lead to join the two and to connect a light controller. If what is being said as regards illegal is true then ALL light controllers with one or two female chassis sockets are themselves illegal. This cannot be true??? CHRIS????????????????????????????????????? Spin Link to post Share on other sites
The Spindoctor 0 Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 Chris http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/014.gif what are you trying to do to my lightshow http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/014.gif having just read your reply I'm confused http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/014.gif do I have to change? Can I continue as I am ?? http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/014.gif Is the mean of life the universe and everything really 42 or 240v? Yours sad and dejected http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/014.gif Spin http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/014.gif Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisPointon 0 Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 Dealers are only breaking the law if they sell both the Lightboxes and leads together. Most dealers (Including myself) now refuse to have anything to do with the bulgin lead sales (hence why this question has probably been asked http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/smile.gif ). There are only actually 2 UK Lightbox manufacturers that I know of. One supplies an integrated 4 channel controller in each box and no daisy chaining facility. So the only input is via a conventional IEC Mains in. I'm not sure what the other one uses. Link to post Share on other sites
adenondj 0 Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 poor spin his illegal lightshow is nowlonger just illegal to uys (too manu screens http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/nono.gif ) but is now actualy illegal! screens are realy realy good what a shame there is nothing that you can do you will have to sell them and get a black cloth! Paul ''king'' Denon D.J. for life Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisPointon 0 Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 Technically Spin, by todays electrical legislation your wiring wouldn't meet the current (pardon the pun) wiring regulatons. However (unless you do your own) many PAT testing facilities are overlooking it anyway http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif , so I wouldn't panic just yet. If you are using an existing set up from years ago, then you would probably get away with it. I haven't yet seen it being enforced. However, the old style connectors are very hard to come by, and I certainly wouldn't recommend using the old style method of connection, on new, or custom built boxes. Link to post Share on other sites
The Spindoctor 0 Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 Awww what a guy I'm feeling better now..... AND they were PAT tested along with the leads as being ok. Think I'll carry on as I am for now............. but having already got a bulgin 6 way splitter that I never use I think my answer is only a few connection changes. Now why did'nt you tell all those nice DJ's when they said they wanted to make their own lightboxes??? Spin http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/tongue.gif Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisPointon 0 Posted February 5, 2004 Report Share Posted February 5, 2004 Well, I'm not encouraging all and sundry to do this. However most PAT testing is done by local Electricians who PAT test all manner of equipment from cooking appliances to pub jukeboxes. In other words, provided the leads are safe, correctly insulated and Pass the required tests, then they are not really interested beyond that. QUOTE Now why did'nt you tell all those nice DJ's when they said they wanted to make their own lightboxes??? I'm not getting involved - I tend to get criticised as being on the "hard sell" when I start suggesting alternative lighting to people http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif . Besides if they are really determined to follow the lightbox route, then my advice won't be listened to in any case http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/wallbash.gif Link to post Share on other sites
Gary 0 Posted February 5, 2004 Report Share Posted February 5, 2004 Surely, the common sense rule of thumb(*) applies.... Plug all the Bulgin leads into the screens and the last one into the control THEN (and only then) Switch on der power... I'd like to see anyone get a shock through any of those lovely chunky Bulgin Plugs. (By the way: The phrase "Rule of thumb" came from the very, very, early marriage agreements (Mikeee's got one), which states that the Husband may not hit the wife with anything which is larger/broader than his thumb. Hence: The rule of thumb. - Never an Inland Revenue Official around when you need one to test old phrases on...) Link to post Share on other sites
mikeee 0 Posted February 5, 2004 Report Share Posted February 5, 2004 Eem!,, I do PAT, haven't come accross the bulgin thingy. I know there has been a new tyoe of plug around for the best part of 10 years. But to my understanding, i can test and pass, but, as with the 13a plug, i would have to replace with the new type if the cable fails (Re: 13a plug, on a lot of older kit the 13a plug may not have "insulators" on the live and nuetral pins, I can pass these, but if I have to do a repair, by law i have to change the plug - and charge for it. But there have been so many changes, even i get confused............) ..playing all the hits for you... ....whether you may be.... Why can't I see what i going on??? Link to post Share on other sites
tntdisco 0 Posted February 5, 2004 Report Share Posted February 5, 2004 www.traxsmanafacturers.co.uk - uk makers of light boxes are having a closing down sale this week - so is the light box dead - i stopped using mine about 2 years ago. Link to post Share on other sites
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