DJGAVT 0 Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 Hi All, Well after a morning of phoning around the uk and being on hold more times than I can remember I can confirm it is NOT legal to use your laptop for DJ'ing apart from at Family Weddings, Birthdays or any other Family partys. To use your laptop at any other functions you need 2 things.... 1. A Mobile DJ License from PPL which is 113.41 + VAT A Year. 2. Something called a Limited Liabilty License from MCPS which is £70 per 500 Tracks and lasts forever. I am having the info sent to me so when I find out more I Will let you know. The companys had no idea really about this so I pointed out to them they should really look into getting a specific license for this. Hope this clears some bits up for you. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif Thanks Gavin Link to post Share on other sites
kazzachi 0 Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 Thanks for the infor gavt..... I bet you though if you continue to phone around you will get a different answer to the legality of using laptops... Who gave this info? WE LOVE KAREN, AND IT'S GREAT TO HAVE HER BACK !!!! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Link to post Share on other sites
DJGAVT 0 Posted February 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 I got this info from PPL, MCPS & PRS all confirmed by all 3 that this would make it 100% Legal. All though they are looking into making a specific license just for us DJ's that want to use laptops. So watch this space : http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif Link to post Share on other sites
Eskie 0 Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 QUOTE 2. Something called a Limited Liabilty License from MCPS which is £70 per 500 Tracks and lasts forever. I am having the info sent to me so when I find out more I Will let you know. They're having a laugh, £70 for 500 tracks!!!!! I take out around 10,000 tracks so I'm supposed to pay £1,400 yet I've already paid a bleedin fortune to buy all those CD's/records in the first place http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/nono.gif Someone needs to tell these clowns to wake up and come into the real world. They could try doing a little research before plucking figures out of the sky! Anthony Winyard Entertainment www.awe-dj.co.uk, Entertaining London & the South-East! Click here to LIKE The Funky Penguin on Facebook. www.facebook.com/awe.dj Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisPointon 0 Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 And i'm guessing that this doesn't apply if you SOLELY do Private Functions?. How about "closed member" functions, such as members only Cricket Clubs, "Gentlemens Evenings" etc where it is strictly a members only event. I seem to remember that these fell under private functions. Is this still the case?. Link to post Share on other sites
DJGAVT 0 Posted February 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 I asked about other private functions such as awards, xmas partys etc they said you need a license ONLY family functions are covered the rest you need to get the correct license. Link to post Share on other sites
kazzachi 0 Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 I find it interesting that the people who provide and charge for licensing are the ones who are telling us all that it is the LAW. Me thinks a quick look at the government web site may tell a different story! WE LOVE KAREN, AND IT'S GREAT TO HAVE HER BACK !!!! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Link to post Share on other sites
DJGAVT 0 Posted February 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 They never said we have to if you know what I mean...wink..wink...but they said if we get caught big fines!! http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/014.gif So I think it makes sense to get the license. Gav PS. This is my 100 post http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif Link to post Share on other sites
Gary 0 Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 Great work Gav, Could you post up the phone, and or email details of who you finally got the answers from. If we all hit em with a steady flow of DJ enquiries then they might apply a little more attention into the mobile DJing aspect of this, and related issues eg: Do they treat laptop storage of vinyl ripped tracks, the same way as vinyl ripped tracks stored on CDRs or MP3 CDRs. Ive certainly got a few questions for them. Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisPointon 0 Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 Just bear in mind my post last year, regarding the fact that other than Customs and Excise, under UK Law a warrant is required in order to search or access your belongings without your permission. Of course it could also be viewed suspiciously that you don't give them permission and go off and obtain a warrant!. In order to obtain a warrant, there has to be some proof to present to a local magistrate by the Authority in question or at least far more than reasonable doubt. Even in the case of the counterfeit raids on DVD / Bootleg / Clothing Market traders etc, Trading Standards have to go under cover and purchase actual "evidence" to present, before a warrant can be obtained and executed. In the case of D.J's anything else would be viewed as guilty until proven innocent and I really don't think they could get a warrant solely on the strength of just Suspecting a DJ playing at a village hall. As you are a subcontractor, a licensee cannot give Authority access for anybody to access your personal belongings either without your permission. As above, the only Authority not required to obtain a warrant to search, are the Customs and Excise, but whether this falls under their jurisdiction is also debateable. At the end of the day, if you have original copies then you shouldn't have anything to fear but you shouldn't need to forfeit your legal rights either in order to prove it. By charging an additional fee per 500 tracks just for the ease of transfering them to a laptop is laughable. How long before they add Tax to using the internet http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/smile.gif. Link to post Share on other sites
The Spindoctor 0 Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 I'm with Chris on this and reiterate what I said last time it reared its head. You do not have to allow them access to your pc / cd's / or other material without a warrant signed by a magistrate. as Chris stated you're not going to be the most popular of people and your card will be marked for the future, but if you put your laptop away and refuse to cooperate THERE IS NOTHING THEY CAN DO! Yes its intimidating having some guy telling you the law is on his side and to hand it over, but if you stick to your guns along the lines of "once my solicitor advises me to hand it over then I will comply but until then go get a warrant", they will back down. However (and this is important) If you give them permission to have a look at your property then you have no protection whatsoever as you have allowed them access. Just my 4d worth Spin Link to post Share on other sites
Leeroy F 0 Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 All legalities. As far as i am aware if the VENUE (not the DJ) has a Public Performance Liscence (PPL) then the DJ can play whatever he likes as long as he/she owns the originals (so no naughty downloading). Also you can use a laptop for more than just music. Use it like i do to project pictures of the pride and groom onto a wall/screen. You can also use it for embarrasing pics that the family wish to display etc. Using ur laptop cant be deemed ILLEGAL because whats the point of making them. If what has been said is true then the liscencing authorites are just trying to squeese more money out of us hard working jocks. As far as im concerned im gonna continue to use my laptop & PC to DJ with and as i own all the music i have on them both then I cannot see the problem. If there comes a time when there is serious change then back to the good old CDs i go. Leeroy F http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/wallbash.gif Link to post Share on other sites
kazzachi 0 Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 Good point leeroy.... Surely if the venue has all the correct licenses then the men in suits cant demand to see what format you are using to play your music from? I suppose the difference is that if the venue does not have a music license then the dj will be in the spotlight. Thats said, if the venue does not carry the correct license - then I suppose this is when they would be able to come and see what you are up to... even though the majority of pcdjs would be legal anyway. Funny aint it, they dont want to recognsie djs until they can see a way in which to get money from us! WE LOVE KAREN, AND IT'S GREAT TO HAVE HER BACK !!!! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Link to post Share on other sites
Dukesy 0 Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 I agree with comments already made. Private venues / membership venues (where the punter has to sign-in as a membership requirement) normally have the PPL (around £1500-£2000) for annual cover. Any entertainer privately hired would 'fall' under this 'license' cover. (In fact, there is a point about P.A.T. that technically covers an entertainer under the venue's insurance - because it's a private venue but I would suggest that this is not taken legit - and investigated individually) The public venue that hires out to a Bride & Groom (a private function) would also have (usually have) PPL license cover. It could get into a 'grey area' with a private hired village hall for private use, such as a Wedding, but the word 'private' should automatically underline any confusion. Private is private - Note# Spins wise comments. Pubs are a different matter, 'falling' under the remit of 'public venue'. Nightclubs may be owned privately but have to conform to numerous legal requirements....including PPL license. Eskie is right to be 'alarmed' about the cost to us DJ's for such a 'mobile cover', but the 'clowns' are not idiots. It is easier for them to base a charge on an out of date existing system (annual fees paid from the venues that want to play music). Personally, I see the whole subject as a can of worms. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/sad.gif Link to post Share on other sites
DJGAVT 0 Posted February 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 I asked about this when phoning up and you are NOT covered even if the place has a PPL or PRS License. You still need to pay the £70 per 500 tracks. As you the venue does not pay this only to have music played in there venue. You basically have to pay for every track you copy onto your laptop from whatever media it comes from. Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisPointon 0 Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 Perhaps our Jobs will all get moved to India?? http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/whistling.gif . Perhaps we'd all be better on the Jam roll than trying to earn an honest living http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/533.gif Link to post Share on other sites
DJGAVT 0 Posted February 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 Dont start me of on India my bank has a call centre in India talk about a pain in the rear end http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/188.gif Link to post Share on other sites
Dukesy 0 Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 Originally, Gavin mentioned about 'the use of a laptop at functions'. Well, I think the private function covers that point - period. But whilst mentioning MCPS - and PPL, here are a few interesting facts: Quote: PPL is a music industry collecting society representing over 3,000 record companies, from the large multinationals to the small independents. MCPS collects and distributes 'mechanical' royalties to its composer and music publisher members. These are generated from the recording of music onto many different formats. Quote: One basic point is if you use copyright music, you need a licence... Quote: Administration of the various publisher rights is delegated to the collecting societies, of which there are 4 in the UK: The Performing Rights Society - PRS Phonographic Performance Limited - PPL Video Performance Limited - VPL The Mechanical Copyright Protection Society - MCPS The two largest, in terms of revenue distributed are PRS and MCPS. In 1997, PRS received £136 million in domestic licensing royalties on public performance - a further £100 million in radio and television royalties. MCPS received royalties of £200.8 million, but the total royalty distributions were £197.8 million, including £164.8 relating to audio products, £16.1 million to blanket agreements. Total domestic turnover for 1997 (domestic music publishing companies) approx £206 million. Overseas income a further £250 million, set off by £95 million oversea payments. And that's only part of the actual figures. Blanket Agreements are very important in any industry - especially the music and entertainment and leisure industry: One example venue pays: £136 for 365 days cover (PRS licence) to allow viewing of 2 TV's up to 26". They also pay for an annual licence for: * Jukebox £168.78 * £342.16 (for 104 discos) * £352.04 for Live music (52 sessions) * £342.16 for Karaoke (52 sessions) Total Annual licence's fees Bwt fwd £1341.14 excluding VAT Quote: There are around 40 different tariffs specifically designed for different music-using sectors. They range form the use of music in pubs and bars to music used in offices and factories. Quote: BACKGROUND MUSIC - NIGHTCLUBS/DISCOTHEQUES A PPL Tariff for the public use of Sound Recordings. Effective from: 1-Oct-2003 to: 30-Sep-2004 This tariff is to be used by nightclubs, discotheques, dance halls and similar venues for background music only. Background music is the playing of recorded music to create an atmosphere or ambience that is not a special feature of, or essential to, the main event or is not essential to the operation of a premises. Fees: FLAT FEE: £83.72 per annum. Quote: PPL's Specially Featured Entertainment tariff is applicable whenever sound recordings are played as a main or special attraction, rather than for background music. Examples of events of Specially Featured Entertainment include discotheques, DJ presentations, table/lap dancing and roller discos. To enable PPL to calculate the rate the venue must provide three figures: * how many hours recordings are played for at an event * the average attendance at that event * the number of events held during the period And now the distributors are being prodded and encouraged to introduce another licence for the likes of us!? Yeah right. I suppose the nice chaps at any of the above mentioned organisations failed to explain fully about 'blanket cover' or contradictive policies. Like I said, a can of worms (about the size of a Sandworm last seen on Arrakis with Muad’Dib kicking the can and scoring a massive own goal) I suppose any new licence to help professionalise and improve the publics perception of DJ or Karaoke entertainment is good - but wait and see what the customer says when we have to re-adjust our fees to reflect that. Link to post Share on other sites
Loz 0 Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 So do us Mobile Djs need to get a PRS License to play in a venue? Party to the Max, With Happy Traxx Link to post Share on other sites
DJGAVT 0 Posted February 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 At the end of the day we can complain till the days come home but if u want to be legal and play music of a lap top you have recorded or burnded from any media form you need to get these licenses UNLESS you do "family" functions ANY other function is not covered and you need them. I had it confirmed 3 times that private functions are not covered even if the venues have the correct licences. Myself I am getting them as I would much rather stay on the right side of the law and paying 140 quid for 1000 tracks forever is not that bad in my view. I say better safe than sorry its the same as PLI you will more than likely never need it but better safe than sorry. People that think any private function is covered are wrong. No venue has a license to allow you to copy music which is what you are doing when you put it onto a laptop. Radio stations need the same kind of license to put stuff on there digital play out systems (I work in one and know this to be true). Please beaware if you dont play your music of a computer this does not effect you. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/1106.gif Link to post Share on other sites
Loz 0 Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 So if we use cds the only things we need to worry about are PAT tested equipment and some kind of Public Liabiltiy Insurance. Party to the Max, With Happy Traxx Link to post Share on other sites
Dukesy 0 Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 Gavin - are you saying that the £140 you have been quoted personally for the 1000 tracks you have on a laptop is licenced ONLY for those 1000 tracks? In other words, are you licenced for any old 1000 tracks or a Specific listed track (1000 tracks)? Is this the loophole that legally covers "music recorded or burnded from any media form", as said? This is not a complaint - just a query. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/smile.gif Link to post Share on other sites
DJGAVT 0 Posted February 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 That is something I am not 100% sure on matey waiting for the info to turn up. I am guessing you have to tell them the tracks so you would have to pay another 70 pounds everytime you added an extra 500 tracks I guess. Hopefully a new license can sort all this out. Maybe we could try and team up and talk to someone at PPL or any of those companys about the new license?? Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisPointon 0 Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 Hmm, i've just spent 15 minutes on the MPCS Website and can't see anything on there which would apply to our industry. There description of the existance of MCPS namely:- QUOTE The MCPS operates a range of Audio Product ('AP') Licensing Agreements for those wishing to manufacture and distribute CDs, records, cassettes and other audio formats for retail sale Seems to suggest that their interests lie in duplicaton of copyright products for retail sale, rather than simply making one back up copy in a different format for use by one person at any one time. Link to post Share on other sites
DJGAVT 0 Posted February 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 Hi Chris, They told me they have nothing on there web-site as regards this as it is not an area they have done much work in. When i get the info in the post I will let you know more details. Gav Link to post Share on other sites
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