Kids Party

[KevinHailes 0]

Oh dear, do you want 'liberal and negative and we all get on' or are we trying to better ourselves and our industry by having debate.

 

This business is my living, I am a full time professional. However, it is also one of the very worst industries for cowboys who are rife in our business at the moment. Until we do something about it and get angry, nothing will change.

[YourBigEvent 0]

Hear Hear Chris

Edited June 23, 2003 by ADS Entertainments

[ChrisPointon 0]

QUOTE

However, it is also one of the very worst industries for cowboys who are rife in our business at the moment. Until we do something about it and get angry, nothing will change

 

An there is an ENTIRE thread about this earlier, use the Search Feature http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/tongue.gif

[KevinHailes 0]

Oh dear oh dear, what a sad state the DJ industry is in when I critisize a DJ for accepting a booking to entertain 3 year old children when he admits he has never done it before - then *I* am called a trouble maker!

I am sorry but I am not going to pat this guy on the back and give him hints and tips so as to 'get by' and botch the job. We should all be saying no, don't do it, for the sake of our industry.

I can see this is not the place for mebuit appreciate the brief encounter http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/042.gif

[ChrisPointon 0]

Then I bid you farewell. Constructive criticism and advice is welcome here, Self Professed snake oil merchants or prima donna's arent.

[paula 0]

QUOTE

This business is my living, I am a full time professional. However, it is also one of the very worst industries for cowboys who are rife in our business at the moment. Until we do something about it and get angry, nothing will change.

 

Maybe so, but your previous post was more of a critismn to us members,

QUOTE

Whilst I agree with sharing information with other DJs and Entertainers. I think that this board is wrong to offer you help in becoming an entertainer overnight but is just typical of how DJs work. You need to be told not to go ahead with this at all - you are clearly not an entertainer and don't seem to have a clue about children and their likes and dislikes.

Everyone has to start somewhere in this line of business, & why not here? with the help from many established dj's.

 

One of the reasons for this board is to help and advise new dj's this does not mean we should be discouraging newbies from childrens partys etc.

 

& im yet to meet anyone who has become a dj/entertainer overnight.

 

[JJ's 0]

I just logged on to thank everyone for their help. The party I originally asked for advice about was yesterday and it went really well!!!! I even got a tip from Mum!!!

 

Now I find after all the great, helpful advice I received, I find myself in the middle of an arguement!!!!

 

I asked for advice because I've never done a childrens 'DISCO' before. Yes I am a DJ and not a childrens entertainer and have never professed to be, Mum rang me up and wanted a DISCO and thats what I provided. Daughter wanted a DISCO and I provided one, isn't that what a DJ's supposed to provide? A DISC!!!!!!!!

 

Anyway, thanx for all your help!!!!

 

JJ

[YourBigEvent 0]

JJ

Glad it all went well, kids parties are sometimes the hardest of all, most of us 'oldies' have done them, and retired from them too. I have just taken a couple in the last 3 days, first time IU have done kids paties for a while but as you state, the kid wants a disco, mum wants to have a disco for the kids so you provide a disco Everyone happy (bar Kevin)

[Ian Stewart 0]

So Mr Hailes, when a child askes their parents for a disco for their party where should they go, to a childrens entertainer who can "do a bodged jpb" at providing a disco.

 

it annoys me the amount of childrens entertainers who believe they are DJ's.

 

for me I started in life as a DJ, and have made a very good living at it, I do entertain at childrens parties, and always get repeat bookings, they tell me that they have in the past had some very poor parties, so there must be some pretty poor childrens entertainers out there if parents would rather book an amatuer that a proffessional, and we end up doing a better job.

 

i humbly suggest sir, that you crawl back under the clowns suit you came from

[KevinHailes 0]

JJ, I am glad things went well for you.

 

You haven't really walked into an argument as such. I was just rather upset that you had taken this job on in the first place as you had said that you didn't know what to do.

 

Imagine the horror stories if someone in a regulated industry such as plumbing where to arrive at a job after having taken forum tips about how to do that waste pipe in the bathroom. It's the same thing really?

 

I am an Equity member and I pleased they are taking big strides to stop all of this. they are pushing for regulation and rightly so, for anyone that entertains kids whish in turn will raise the profile of our industry as a whole - better for all of us?

[ChrisPointon 0]

QUOTE

I am an Equity member and I pleased they are taking big strides to stop all of this

 

Equity have been contacted several times in order to comment on issues raised about them and this forum, however they seem far more interested in keeping their little niche' reserved for the old boy network. When Equity start being more approachable then maybe they will have some effect on the industry they so desperately wish to control...or not as the case may be.

 

This is a privately owned and funded forum hosted outside of the UK, equity will have no say in whether this stays or goes, nor have any input in the advice contained in it. They obviously don't give a damn either way since they have been invited to take part several times and declined. Several Members on here have signed up and are still awaiting a reply - weeks after sending in their applications. How Equity can regulate an industry with no or a handful of members (D.J's) is beyond me!

 

Unless of course you are hoping for Equity to take control of the internet in general?.

[KevinHailes 0]

Chris, I cannot defend Equity and their apparent un-willingness to join in. However, based on the way I have been treated after making a perfectly valid point and the subsequent un-challenged flames I have received, I am not at all suprised.I mean, were comments like ..snake oil and ..clown suit really appropriate bearing in mind I am commenting in order to protect and enhance our business and not destroy it. After all, I am full-time so rely on the business for my living.

 

I am very sorry if I have come across as being arsie but my original comments should not have offended anyone whereas the things being written about me are down right rude.

 

[JJ's 0]

When you say 'Professional' and 'full-time for a living'

 

Do you mean DJ, entertainer or pain in the aris????

[ChrisPointon 0]

Kevin,

 

If you had taken the time to read the 7000+ post's on this forum before making your first post, then you may have realised that there are more than a handful of full time professionals on here. Yet within 5 minutes of your membership being approved you launch into what could only be described as abuse. Perhaps you could tell me how you managed to form an opinion in such a small space of time?.

 

Yes, some members have been less then polite, but I must agree, that I take that as an indication that I wasn't the only one to be offended by your first post. In 5 minutes there is no way that you could have gained a feel for what this forum represents, so if you dish it out in ignorance then prepare the the topic to become slightly heated.

 

Equity, are aloof to this industry, the fact that you are even a member suggests that you are not yourself a D.J, which begs the question - what are you doing here?.

 

Many full time professional's have themselves attempted to join Equity and never even had a reply. So much for the "professional" element of their organisation, the first impression is not good is it. So don't be too upset if the mention of Equity regulating this industry is met with howls of hysterical laughter.

 

Yes, the industry does need regulating - why not see the D.J union thread on this forum, to see how some of our members feel about the issue and THEN post your comments.

 

For the record, this forum was set up entirely to approach this subject, and I find it an insult, that you are unwilling to even take the time to read its content before passing judgement.

[Ian Stewart 0]

Kevin,

 

i replied to you in the same manner of your 1st post, even in this thread JJ was given advice not to take the job, but all went well for him.

 

Every entertainer has a 1st time for every gig, if we all (DJ's/Children's Entertainers/Comedians etc) turned down gigs that we have never performed at we would never progress as acts.

 

I am also a member of equity, & i feel they are a joke with little or no power, the same goes for the musicians union as well.

 

I am also earn my living from the entertainment industry, and I am in the minority who does not mind anyone "having a go" at DJ'ing etc. I believe if you are good enough you will have a full diary.

 

so if you have not done so, have a read of a few of the postings on here, you will see that we are mostly proffessional entertainers who care about the industry.

 

good luck to you

[Dukesy 0]

Gentleman!

 

Handbags please!

 

I would like to add my bit!!!

As the mind is flowing, I'll just let the fingers do the sowing!

 

Work is work. A leading childrens entertainment company in Essex covers all sorts of parties including toddlers.

 

They happen to charge, I think, over the top, but if the demand is there, all for one and one for all springs to mind.

 

For any advice on DJing, Karaoke, equipment and other related subjects, this forum has proven above and beyond to be a resource of knowledge.

Of the DJ's I personally know not yet on the forum, the envy is evident.

 

Chris P has generated an excellent hub of creative and topical discussion. My hat is tipped.

 

I have not met Paula, Mikeee, Ian S. and the other professionals and semi-pros yet, but hope to in the near future.

To me, their views and comments are amusing but to the point and sometimes 'different' to others, but I respect all comments and 'defend' opinions - on the side of forum rules.

 

It is not always easy (especially for DJ's) to ask advice. When they do - we should appreciate and exchange. Why else are we here?

(or are we in ego-united!!!!!)

http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/042.gif

[ChrisPointon 0]

Certainly everybody has to start somewhere, and here is a good place to start http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/smile.gif . Maybe Kevin would like to share with us how he started out in business?.

 

Given the choice Some advice is better than no advice whatsoever. Perhaps by way of this and other forums it will remove SOME of the cowboy element, so don't attack the people who are trying to make a difference...however small that may be.

[The Spindoctor 0]

Well said Dan!! ((disco direct) for the benefit of Chris). I too came in on the end of this argument?discussion call it what you will. I read it in full then immediately looked at the post count, to wonder why a 'professional' should actually try to encourage a fellow forum member to turn work away, especially when he apparently has only been here for a VERY few posts.

As can be seen (if you bother to look) there are very many 'full time professionals' within this forum, all with a wealth of information they are willing to share with those less experienced.

As far as I can see from the preceding posts if you are not prepared to support/encourage and advise those less in the know on this forum then please close the door behind you on your way out!!!

[KevinHailes 0]

Chris, thanks for your comments.

 

Ok firstly, can I throw out the rumour that wear a clown outfit LOL - never. I am a specialist Kids Party Organiser. Just 4s to 14s.

 

I was invited to look at the site by a long term member who shall remain nameless as I may have caused him some embarasement now. With all the technology available to forum hosts, I am sure you could track my IP address and see my movements in this forum were not just 5 minutes of reading. I have in fact spent the best part of the day (and evening now) looking through the posts.

 

I became very concerned when I read posts by members giving tips to JJ about how to perform a kids party. One person (a lady I think) hit the nail on the head by saying how 'very specialised' kids parties were.

 

When dealing with children in any industry, there are lots of things that have to be taken into consideration, many of them are legal requirements now, however, this thread seemed to completely ignore this and offered advice, in my view, unprofessionaly.

 

Ok on the Equity issue. Equity is not just for actors and entertainers. It is a 'performers' union. therefore, DJs can join. You need to prove that you run your business within the law, for example, the Inland Revunue are aware of your activities, PAT up to date etc. Also you need to provide copies of your contracts as many contracts made up at home are not legally enforsable. Other than that, a visit to a few of your shows and your in. I am concerned that you say DJs seem not to be welcome.

 

I can see that things will be arkward if I stick around. It seems not the place for me. However, I really would appreciate knowing how on earth I have offended anyone by offering sound advice?

 

Thanks anyway Chris, when I log off you may as well just delete my membership details. I just searched the site to see if i can delete myself but couldn't find anything.

 

I sincerely wish you all the best with the forum and wish your members all the best in the businesses.

[ChrisPointon 0]

Kevin with respect, I have only just approved your membership - you cannot access 75% of the forum until approval is granted. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/smile.gif .

[KevinHailes 0]

Ian - thank you.

[Dukesy 0]

Why leave!

As a professional - take the crit. It's experience.

However.............. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif

No......stick around mate. You upset the Admin and others - learn and memory burn!

It won't happen again!!!

By the way, I too am a Professional Entertainer.........and I tip my hat to you too for entertaining us lot!!!!!!!!

Get over it!

EDITED BY DD FOR TAKING UP TOO MUCH TIME & SPACE!

Edited June 23, 2003 by discodirect

[KevinHailes 0]

Chris, I bet you wished you hadn't approved after all although I guess I have been the forums version of Big Brothers Federicao - outspoked and missunderstood. However, I meant no harm.

[yanto 0]

Wow...what a roller-coaster of a thread this one was;

 

Speaking as another new member to this forum, the advice I have found here has been (on the whole) interesting and informative. After spending more than 2 days reading a lot of posts, I have found that a lot of questions I wanted to ask have already been answered before I even hit the "Add a reply" button. I also took part in Sundays live chat session and was made most welcome by the members I encountered.

 

Looking at the experience of some members here, (some have been "jocks" for 20-plus years), I could think of no better place to ask for advice, be it on childrens parties, the ups and downs of strobe lighting or what laser crab is best).

 

Also, there were a lot of things mentioned in this thread that could have gone by-the-by for the less experienced amongst us, (legal stand-points of working with children and nut-allergy issues to name but two - certainly things I will pay more attention too once I put my show on the road).

 

I think the main point I am struggling to make is that the advice given here is just that - advice! Whether you decide to listen to that advice ulitmately is your own choice, but I for one appreciate the "blow-by-blow" account of how best to present a childrens party, (content, games, activities etc), and I just wonder in my heart-of-hearts, whether I could turn down a gig for 4+ year olds when I am trying to make a living at what I enjoy doing, or would I come here and ask for advice before making my decision.....?? Truth is, I have not even thought of childrens parties before reading this thread..

 

With over 100 years experience between the people that have posted in this thread, I reckon the advice route is the best route. How I use that advice is my business, and my business will sink or swim depending on HOW I use it.

 

One thing I have noticed in my time hanging out with DJ's is that they tend not to be "shrinking violets" when it comes to giving opinions, (surely that "extrovert" nature goes with the territory??) and I have to thank everyone involved for what was a most interesting (and thought provoking) thread.

 

Just goes to show the the forum does "Exactly what it says on the tin"??

 

'nuff said!

 

yanto!

[KevinHailes 0]

Disco Direct, thanks for the comments. I am strong enough to accept critisism but are others? This is the nub of the problem and the reason why the thread became a little heated. I was publicly vilified just for making a point, just because people didn't agree with the point.

 

Yanto, I do agree with what you have said about personal choise etc but when this affects the industry as a whole, do you think it's right. For example, I regularly get calls from customers who start by saying something along the lines of..

"we need to make sure of who and what we are getting this year because last years kids disco was dreadful. The DJ didn't have any interaction with the kids, didn't know what music they liked and just wasn't up to the job". Believe me , I hear this over and over again and every time, it turns out to be adult DJs, who are very good at pubs, clubs and weddings, who are just trying to make a few extra quid by taking on kids parties because they are on a weekday or a Saturday afternoon.

 

I will use another example of how this is just not acceptable. You hire a childminder/nanny to look after *your* kids for the evening but they tell you later that they have no experience with kids but they do work in the local C.I.U club on Saturdays!? When you hire somebody to deal specifically kids, you expect the person to know what they are doing and it's wrong for members of this board, especially senior ones in the industry, to more or less sanction another member to take on a job involving 3 year old kids with no experience. Dealing with kids is not the kind of job that you can just pick up on the way.

 

Chris, I am sure Equity have no intent to try and control anyone BUT like other industries, they are having to get to grips with people that work with kids to ensure safety. Bouncy Castle operators are soon to feel the brunt of regulators for example. People that think they can spend £500 on a 2ndhand Castle and just go and make a bit of pocket money at the weekend will soon be in retreat when the new HSE regulations come in.

 

I am not protective over my job but I do like to keep the standards high. I have no doubt that all you guys have the same feeling with regard to DJs and the DJ industry. I would not take on a wedding reception disco for example, I leave that to the experts and kids parties should be the same. You will note that most specialist Kids discos advertise in the entertainers section of papers and not discos section.

 

I am trying to bring attention to the Adult DJs that are putting ad's in papers with things like 'kids parties 2 hours £50'. I warn parents who ask me why they are so cheap. I ask if they could be cutting corners to cut costs. I urge them to check if they have insurance (essential when dealing with other peoples kids), have they a current legit PAT certificate, do they adhere to reulations regarding bubble machines, smoke machines, UV lighting, sprobes etc, is the taxman aware of their activities, are they aware of allergies with kids, do they risk assess, have they a first aid kit etc etc. It's hard to justify a normal 2 hour kids party fee of around £150 when so many adult DJs are jumping on a bandwaggon and charging fee's like £50.

 

I am glad JJ had a good job and I would welcome him to any of my gigs or to spend the day with me if he wants to learn more about the trade and the things I have spoken about. There are an abundance of training courses for people who want to have a job with children and some are specific to entertainment. I had lots of training before I started my business including years in a holiday centre when I was younger - I am only 38 now.