Noise Limiters? PAH!

[Guest ian]

I've found a way around your worst nightmare when you get to a gig, the dredded Noise Limiter!!!

 

To prevent power loss at large computer installations, a UPS (Uninteruptable Power Supply) is provided. A UPS can provide power for upto 15 minutes (depending on how large the UPS is and how much power you take).

 

I have a UPS that can provide 6 minutes of power as long as my lighting rig is switched off, only my powered speakers, mixer and computer are left running which is a great bonus should you hit the 'red' too many times!

 

I intend on getting another UPS soon so I can have a full uninterupted roadshow should the power fail, not just because of a sound limiter, but also a situation where the power fails for some other reason. It gives you the opportunity to shut everything down safely without the horrific chance that it all blows up in your face.

[The Spindoctor 0]

Sounds like an interesting idea........... whats the cost implications of these babies?

[ChrisPointon 0]

QUOTE

whats the cost implications of these babies?

 

Quite cheap nowadays - it's more the weight ratio for the larger ones (Due to the larger capacity batteries).

 

A 500va version will cost you around £64.00

A 1000va version will cost around £190.00

 

It is important to total the wattages of everything that will be connected to the unit. The most current hungry item is likely to be your Amplifier. It is also important to remember that your Amplifier is likely to consume more power than the speaker outputs to allow the losses through heat, and running cooling fans etc. For instance a 500W Amplifier can draw around 600W total from the mains - so a 750VA UPS would be recommended. VA is just another method of stating the wattage.

 

Here are some examples of the wattages drawn by most Disco Equipment to help with choosing a correctly rated UPS.

 

Dual CD = 20 - 30w

Mixer = 20 - 32w

Modern Laptop = 60 - 80w

P.C = 130 - 400w (Depending on what you have installed!)

15" Monitor = 70w

17" Monitor = 95w

TFT Monitor = 35w

Amplifier = Consult your handbook!

 

Using a UPS is a great idea, but make sure that you choose one that is rated for the job - since most have built in thermal protection meaning that if you overload them, they will overheat and 30 mins into your set...cut out! http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/fear.gif

 

By connecting your pc / audio equipment via a UPS you also get rid of all of the nasties on the mains which is a bonus!.

 

[Guest ian]

I have a 1000va UPS (marginally cheaper than £190 but I get it trade) which although is quite heavy, doesn't get taken out a lot, only really to venue's with Noise Limiters. I should take it out more, some venues need a bloody good going over by the electrician the amount of crap wiring i've seen.

[DJGAVT 0]

 

Why not just do what I do and plug into another room? Normally if it is a Village Hall/Sports Club they have a kitchen and the fridge plug is never wired into the limiter as all the food would go off!! http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif

 

 

[The Spindoctor 0]

Well thanks for the info, its something to consider, the other thing with kitchens and other outlets is there is always some little bugger playing around and switching them off!!

[DJGAVT 0]

 

That is another great use of gaffa tape......and if you are lucky sometimes it is behind the fridge or cooker so no one will find it anyways....just means you have to move it http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/blink.gif

[ChrisPointon 0]

QUOTE

Why not just do what I do and plug into another room?

 

Actually you can get fined for doing this. Usually clubs and pubs in residential area's or which have been subject to noise complaints, are usually issued with a noise abatement order which means that they have to comply with a certain noise level or risk losing their entertainment licence. Hence the Noise Limiters http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/mad.gif , most landlords don't pay the £500 that a noise limiter costs just for the hell of it!.

 

By accepting a booking at that hall you have to comply with the Entertainment licence regulations (i.e just the same as if the venue has a 12.00 licence - you have to finish at 12!) which also includes being subject to the onsite noise regulations and the limiter. In by passing the limiter you are failing to comply, and the local council can fine you if caught

 

This is usually why the landlord takes great pleasure in showing you the limiter - its his licence that is on the line!.

 

The sock theory (Which I have used with success on several occasions) enables you to still connect to the sockets fed by the limiter (no rules broken) and you have not actually tampered with the internal workings of the unit or smashed it up (Not recomended! - Criminal damage charge anybody!). That Sock could have come from anywhere and you weren't aware of it were you?? http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[mikeee 0]

Untill the man talking to you just happens to notice a bare foot in a shoe http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/laugh.gif

[mobile_dj_crooks 0]

LoL....cool anyways, anyone wanna tell me the rate of $ canadian to £ is? i'm so confused on prices http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/wacko.gif

[Ian Stewart 0]

QUOTE (Chris_Pointon @ Apr 30 2003, 11:52 PM)

The sock theory (Which I have used with success on several occasions) enables you to still connect to the sockets fed by the limiter (no rules broken) and you have not actually tampered with the internal workings of the unit or smashed it up (Not recomended! - Criminal damage charge anybody!). That Sock could have come from anywhere and you weren't aware of it were you?? http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

A few years ago I worked in a club with a limiter, we used to spray the mic with furniture polish or hair spray, this always did the trick.

 

it would eventually wear off so not to damage the mic

[ChrisPointon 0]

QUOTE

LoL....cool anyways, anyone wanna tell me the rate of $ canadian to £ is? i'm so confused on prices

 

Try this site Currency Exchange

 

You should also consider that your local prices may differ in any case, since prices of certain items do differ around the world depending on your local sales tax, and the pricing in general. When compared to my examples you may find the same item could be cheaper or more expensive locally. But the currency converter will give you an idea of my examples in $CA

[The Spindoctor 0]

Thing with socks and hairspray is if you can get anywhere near the darn thing! If they have done their job right you need an extension ladder and a suicidal roadie to even touch it!

Edited May 1, 2003 by The Spindoctor

[OK KARAOKE 1]

QUOTE (The Spindoctor @ May 1 2003, 01:38 PM)

Thing with socks and hairspray is if you can get anywhere near the darn thing! If they have done their job right you need an extension ladder and a suicidal roadie to even touch it!

Air-rifle any good ?? http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/smile.gif

[gray2003 0]

good old big stick http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/188.gif

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/thumbup.gif

[The Spindoctor 0]

QUOTE

good old big stick

 

Back to Mikee again then ??? LOL

[paula 0]

QUOTE

Air-rifle any good ??

QUOTE

good old big stick

http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/014.gif This is exactly what I needed last night http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/014.gif

 

Have turned into a gibberish wreck over this spent all night looking at the damn thing!

 

1 red, 2 red, 3 red, 10 seconds, Oh http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/censored.gif

http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/014.gif

Nearly but not quite, pheewwwweeee!

[Paul Smith 0]

One of the gigs I did at the weekend had one placed at the back of the stage almost out of sight (it was an hour b4 I even saw it).

Managed to keep it on one green for most of the night but when I tried to pump up the volume a bit for the last hour it just seemed to jump from 1 green to 2 red with no leeway in-between. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/mad.gif

At wedding receptions I like to keep the volume at a level where people can dance & chat at the same time so I wasn't exactly blasting the sound out and it was a room that could hold about 400 people.

I wonder how often, if ever, venues have these db meters checked & calibrated? http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/533.gif

Paul S http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/042.gif

[paula 0]

QUOTE

Managed to keep it on one green for most of the night

http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/wacko.gif confused http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/wacko.gif

mine was hovering between 1 & 2 green before I even started!

QUOTE

I wonder how often, if ever, venues have these db meters checked & calibrated?

Good question.

[Peteee 0]

Hi Paula http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/042.gif

All Karaokes should have one built in to the mixer

He he he

http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/071.gif

[The Spindoctor 0]

and theres me thinking you were going to say all Paula's should have one built in.................. then again save that for Kimmie!!!!

[steviedecks 0]

I have had a big problem in the past with noise limiters,

in perticular this one club which is in a hotel.

The system is so old it has to be believed!

They make a mint every week but refuse to up grade.

Why are some club owners so small minded http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/533.gif

[Cheezy 0]

Thanks for the detail regarding the legalities of sound limited, obviously they have been fitted for a reason so should be used! I have concerns using them, especially damage to amp/speakers, to this I'm considering wiring my flight case so it is just the mixer that get tripped if the limiter is tripped. Everything else is supplied from another mains source.

 

Has anyone had experience doing this or is there a better way. I have no space for a UPS!

[YourBigEvent 0]

QUOTE

Thanks for the detail regarding the legalities of sound limited, obviously they have been fitted for a reason so should be used! I have concerns using them, especially damage to amp/speakers, to this I'm considering wiring my flight case so it is just the mixer that get tripped if the limiter is tripped. Everything else is supplied from another mains source. Has anyone had experience doing this or is there a better way. I have no space for a UPS!

 

Lost me http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/533.gif http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/533.gif http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/533.gif

 

As nothing to linked to the limiters, shouting alone (or any other word !!) would set it off and shut it down no gear it linked.

[ChrisPointon 0]

Cheezy, this idea is actually just as bad as if the entire audio rig tripped. If you ever switched on CD Players, Mixer etc AFTER the Amplifier, then you would have possibly experienced a loud thud through the speakers.

 

This is caused by the resulting surge through the mains, and a short, but high powered audio signal being fed from the output of the mixer into the input of the Amplifier. This can be loud enough to do some pretty serious damage to the Speakers, or take out a fuse in the Amp, for example.

 

The only way of truely defeating the Sound Limiter, is to do just that! - Defeat or Bypass it http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/smile.gif .

 

With regard to the other question, there are no hard and fast rules for installation and setting up of a Sound Limiter. In fact the average D.I.Y'er could fit one. The local council dictate that the venue should have one, and in most cases it is fitted by a local electrician. As i've said before, the average Electrician has little knowledge of limiters, all he has to do is to fit it!.

 

Usually, the limiter is set to it's factory default (lowest) setting, and that is why you can usually trigger it, just by the conversation level of 150+ people http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/excl.gif .

 

There are currently no laws, to audio test the installation, or calibrate it on a yearly basis, in fact the unit may sit there for 15 years without ever being adjusted from its default setting. The only time it may get reviewed, is if the complaints start rolling in from local residents, which indicate that the entertainers may be bypassing the limiter!.

 

As a D.J, you can be fined under the noise abatement laws, if you are caught bypassing the system, and the owner / manager of the venue could lose his licence.

 

There are currently more laws being written (Thanks to our crappy Euro rulers) which if passed will require every venue to have a quiet area set aside for visiting punters!. This Law currently applies only to clubs ("Chill out rooms") but should the Euro clowns get their way, then every village hall, Pub etc will have to comply, in fact anywhere which is licensed for music".