Don't Panic!

[Gary 0]

 

Radio active waste, Nuclear Fallout, Toxic chemicals...

 

All words that are more or less guaranteed to have us looking the other way

with a certain amount of "Phew, I'm glad that I dont work anywhere near any

of that stuff".

 

Here's another word... Asbestos. Please keep reading - this has got some

mobile DJ implications.

 

Asbestos has one very nasty characteristic, its fibres, if inhaled can

easily enter the lungs and become trapped in the lung tissues because they

are so small. The fibres can remain in the body for many years and because

they attach to the lining of the lungs and airways, the fibres cannot be

coughed out or washed out of the lung tissue. The area around the fiber

becomes inflamed and, eventually, scarred. Diseases related to exposure to

asbestos do not appear for several years, possibly 15 to 40 years after

exposure. Asbestosis and other asbestos related dieseases account for

around 4000 deaths per year (worldwide), and is expected to peak at 7000

deaths per year by 2015. It should also be noted that you need to be

unfortunate enough to inhale "alot" of fibres, on repeated occassions, for a

concerning amount of fibres to be inhaled.

 

Unfortunately for many people, Asbestos's good qualities were discovered

around 30 years before its side effects. Asbestos was blended into over

3000 products, including Floor tiles, Suspended Ceiling tiles, Artex (as in

swirlly ceilings and wall decor), Fire blankets, heat-resistant car/engine

gaskets, fireproofing for cable runs/trays in roof spaces, lagging for

pipes, Electric meter/fuse box cupboards, boilers, warm-air vents and plenty

of shaped/moulded cement products eg: Cement gutters, drainpipes etc. ,

worktops, windowsills (the dense black marble-like ones)Dolphin/Dauntless

toliet seats, and those strange "I wonder what those are for" little black

pads that you find stuck to the underside of kitchen sinks...

 

Unfortunately two of Asbestos's benefits are that it made a great

sound/noise insulator, both in "plasterboard"-like board form, and a great

heat insulator. Is anyone thinking of their fairly warm, fairly soundproof

local village hall yet?

 

Asbestos isnt magic. It cant "get you" by you standing next to a wall made

of, or coated with ACM (Asbestos Containing Materials). However, if an ACM

is disturbed eg: drilled into, punctured, etc...this is when fibre release,

and inhalation is possible. Also, you would require multiple/prolonged

exposure to inhale significant amounts...but you wouldnt nesseceraly know

until X years later. Its for this reason that deaths through Asbestos

related diseases are not expected to peak until 2015.

 

Asbestos in public areas is encapsulated. That sounds reassuringly safe,

doesnt it; "encapsulated". Painting an ACM internal wall with normal

emulsion, would be considered as "encapsulated", as would covering it with

wallpaper. With the best wills in the world, can we all honestly say that

we've never, chipped some paint off of a stage wall, or accidently knocked a

dent in a ceiling tile while lifting/breaking-away an overhead rig? I'm

guilty (by accident) of all these, at least once in a while, over the last

18+ years of DJ'ing.

 

Asbestos was still used in construction and re-fitting of buildings right

through the 1960's and 70's, with diminishing use in the 80's and even 90's.

Whilst 1999 was the year in which asbestos materials were no longer

produced, there were obviously stockpiles of ACM (asbestos containing

materials) already held by builders, and of course, there are thousands upon

thousands of public venues which ACM's will either be known to be located,

or at least be presumed. The older the property, the more ACMs are likely

to present.

 

Before anyone starts ordering their dust masks, however, a quick recap:

 

The danger from Asbestos containing materials (ACMs) are the fibres. These

fibres are only released from ACMs when the material is disturbed eg: Drunk

punter kicking/punching a hole in an interior wall, paint being

chipped/gouged from a wall, someone cutting up an old fireblanket for a

laugh, drilling into an ACM interior wall, frayed edges of ACM interior wall

being re-disturbed, pieces of Artex ceiling/wall decor being drilled or

"holed", gaffa tape being peeled from painted surfaces (taking paint/surface

with it), pieces of discarded/fly-tipped "plasterboard"-like sheets being

broken etc. Fibres may also be present, in dust layers in roof spaces and

other "rarely visited" locations in a building.

 

Asbestos, really isnt something which you need to be afraid of, or start

boycotting certain older venues for. It's simply something that wont hurt

you to be aware of. In this case, the only protective gear that you'll need

is a basic understanding of something which has quite a few myths about it.

Hopefully, if you're still reading this far down, I've provided some of that

understanding.

 

Next Week: How to dis-arm the Delta-Bravo NWH-40 Nuclear warhead, using

only a set of Tandy Screwdrivers a piece of chewing gum, and a 9volt

battery...

 

[YourBigEvent 0]

Brakes for cars and trucks used to made with asbestos. My first job in the motor trade was to take off the brake linings (the asbestos) and re-line the shoes. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/wacko.gif It has since been banned from brakes ...

[ChrisPointon 0]

QUOTE

My first job in the motor trade was to take off the brake linings (the asbestos) and re-line the shoes.  It has since been banned from brakes ...

 

Think of it this way Andy. At least you'll have the last laugh when they TRY to cremate you! http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/9.gif

 

Thanks for the interesting topic Gary, a lot of buildings in this area are old, and some even have the old asbestos roof's http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/scared.gif......including the next door neighbours Garage!.

 

[kazzachi 0]

Andy! You had a job with shoes! http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[YourBigEvent 0]

QUOTE

Andy! You had a job with shoes!

 

http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/071.gif http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/071.gif

[Gary 0]

Just as a quick reminder - given that one place near us has only JUST had all the asbestos removed from around its stage area (asbestos is a great sound insulator), watch out for the black, white and red stickers which indicate that Asbestos is present in a wall, ceiling, floor, or other surface.

 

The stickers are approx 3 inches high, have a dome shaped top, with a lower case "a" in white, at the top of the sticker.

 

Its ok to work eg: DJ, near to any ACM (asbestos Containing Material) but take extra care not to damage the surface - simply grazing the surface by letting a speaker gash it as you hurry in to the hall, or letting a heavy flightcase lid breach the surface of a wall can be enough to send Asbestos fibres into the air.

 

The other stickers which commonly appear are retangular, and say "Encapsulated Asbestos". Since "Encapsulation" can simply mean "painted over" - again, its best not to graze such surfaces.

 

Its perfectly harmless stuff, until someone exposes the insides.

[ChrisPointon 0]

So who would work in a building which had Asbestos?, how could you tell if there was Asbestos, does anybody remember what Asbestos looks like?.

 

Fortunately, due to the risk of asbestos related diseases such as Mesothelioma, many council and public venues have had all of their asbestos material removed, but what about the older buildings such as village halls?.

 

Mesothelioma is one of the deadliest diseases known to man, it's only known cause is via exposure to the deadly mineral Asbestos. It comes from inhaling the particles of dust as the asbestos degrades; eating away at the lining of your lungs and developing into a deadly cancer.

 

20 Years ago, almost every family knew of at least one person who had developed Mesothelioma or the Mesothelioma Symptoms, often from their employment in companies which made Asbestos itself or brake linings of cars.

 

The result of asbestos exposure, mesothelioma comes in three forms: pleural mesothelioma; peritoneal mesothelioma; and pericardial mesothelioma. All three types have a variety of associated symptoms, and there are some symptoms that are common to all three types of the disease. In all cases of the disease, sufferers are unlikely to even realise that there is a problem until many years after they have actually contracted mesothelioma from regular exposure to asbestos.

 

The symptoms of all types of mesothelioma do not generally manifest for several decades after contraction. This can make the disease difficult to diagnose and all too often is too late to save the patient by the time a diagnosis is made.

There are also cases of other asbestos related diseases such as asbestosis and respiratory problems that have stemmed from exposure to this potentially fatal material. Anyone that has worked with asbestos should see their doctor if they have any onset of this type of problem or if they are concerned and have doubts.

 

Those who have been diagnosed with mesothelioma as a result of asbestos exposure are entitled to file a claim using an asbestos lawyer. Many of the companies responsible for exposing their employees to asbestos were well aware of the dangers and effects, but still saw fit to let their workers continue with little or no protection against the dust and fibers that emanated from this hazardous and deadly material.

 

So who is working in Venues still using with asbestos as insulation or Soundproofing?.

 

 

[YourBigEvent 0]

We have all done venues with it in, I can't imagine none of us haven't done old village halls in our time.

[Kingy 0]

A venue that I visit once a year has "found "asbestos in the heating system. This is currently being removed and they have no heating. The cost is £2.5 Million!!!

 

[Gary 0]

Village halls yes, could easily have Asbestos in them, but also anything right up to the other end of the scale - the venue that I noticed was having a huge amount of asbestos containing materials (ACM's) removed from, was a city Guild Hall, capacity 600+ (but still probably only 2 power points near the stage).

 

The most common form that we'll see it (or not see it, if its not been clearly labelled, is large wall sheets (like plasterboard), but also it was used in plaster form in Artex-like ceiling/wall coverings. But equally as common, and much more prone to damage, are those very fashionable (in the 1960's and 70's) blue or brown floor tiles, with the faint white streaks tainting through them.

 

Most councils and local authorities have a plan to "locate and Label" any ACM's in their area. A safe enough policy as asbestos that is undisturbed, is not a hazard (until it is disturbed) and the two worst types of asbestos (Brown Asbestos and Blue Asbestos) were "outlawed" in 1985, but the final Asbestos type (White Asbestos) was still allowable in building projects under contruction as late as 1999. This means that literally, a young venue, built only 6 years ago, could still use asbestos around its stage area (and other places) for sound and heat insulation.

 

The huge problem with asbestos, and its nastiest side-effect; asbestosis (or is is spelt; asbestosys ?) is that if you were unfortunate enough to breath a harmful amount in from an exposed/ruptured ACM, the effects might not show themselves for 20~30 years.

 

At least if you scratch yourself on a rusty nail on an old door frame in a hall (due to the caretaker turning out nearly all the lights as a hint that he wants to go home, after only 10 minutes of the show ending) you knew that getting a TB jab booster would be a good thing to do.

Edited April 13, 2005 by Gary

[robbiedj 0]

There are a number of forms that asbestos can take, not just boards.

 

Woven forms can be found around pipes, tanks and in old style fire-blankets or even that ancient pair of oven-gloves laying around in the corner of the kitchen.

 

It was also used in fibre form for roof insulation. The dust from that is far more likely to be unnoticed. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/fear.gif

[Dynamicdiscos 0]

Tell me about it. We moved into our house (built in 1970's) about 9 months ago. We knocked out a wall where the old blow heating system used to be to make a large cupboard space. We found that the top of the cavity was filled with an asbestos board like plaster. Rather than battle with removing it we plastered over it!

 

We also have this asbestos board for the weather boards, shed roof and the nearby garages have asbestos roofs too. What is even better is the kids climb on top of these and I am forever shouting at them with no avail so I am waiting for the day they fall through the damn thing http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/nono.gif

 

Not only that but when we had the carpet fitted it reavealed we had the old grey asbestos tiles still on the floor. They were glued down so firmly that we didn't want to try and disturb it. so we ended up laying underlay and carpet over it for now.

 

Do you think these tiles could still pose a problem?

[Gary 0]

QUOTE (Dynamicdiscos @ Apr 13 2005, 10:19 AM)

Not only that but when we had the carpet fitted it reavealed we had the old grey asbestos tiles still on the floor. They were glued down so firmly that we didn't want to try and disturb it. so we ended up laying underlay and carpet over it for now. Do you think these tiles could still pose a problem?

Im no expert, but the location of the Asbestos containing material (ACM) in this case, the floor tiles is key to any potential risk. Obviously quantity, and any damage to the ACM is a a huge factor too, as is the assessability.

 

One of the worst cases of ACM that I've ever heard of was of a really cheap'n'cheerful idea of putting asbestos in paper sacks and using it as a loft insulation solution - and that was a commercially provided solution, not some old caretaker coming up with a "bright idea" one Sunday.

 

In the case of your floor tiles, (again, I'm no expert), the tiles, whilst widespread in quantity, are "safe" under some underlay and a nice chunky carpet (I'm guessing "chunky" as we DJ types are always thought to be loaded). So...if you were to walk into the room, drop a nice heavy microwave on the carpet, I doubt that the tiles would sustain much damage. Avoid however, drilling/nailing anything into the edges of the floor eg: Speaker cable clips.

 

You were definately right to leave the tiles where they were, rather than trying to prise each and every tile up - you'd have needed to call in a firm which specialises in the removal and safe, recorded, disposal of Asbestos materials. If you'd simply taken all those broken, chipped, half tiles "down the dump", or chucked them in the bin for the binmen, you might have been in trouble.

[Dynamicdiscos 0]

DOn't panic I would never just chuck it in a skip. The council provide you with special seable bags for the disposal of asbestos and they arrange to have it collected.

 

But even with a mask on I still think I would rather pay someone else to remove it.

[ChrisPointon 0]

With any Asbestos material, and with the threat of Mesothelioma caused by exposure to even small amounts of airbourne asbestos dust I would have thought that the council would have to bring in approved contractors to remove and dispose of the asbestos?.

 

With compensation payouts for Mesothelioma running into hundreds of millions of dollars world over, it's pretty obvious the Lawyers who deal with asbestos related claims are making a good profit out of it, and many companies previously using materials have been crippled by those affected by Mesothelioma and now claiming compensation from them 20 or 30 years after exposure. There certainly seems no shortage of lawyers dealing specifically with mesothelioma and asbestos lawsuits, I doubt the local council would take any risks http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/smile.gif .

 

Useful Links:-

 

HSE Guidelines on Asbestos

 

HSE Work Related Asbestos Campaign for those affected by Asbestos Diseases in the workplace

 

Asbestos Removal Contractors

 

Mesothelioma Information

[centrestagediscos 0]

the tiles should be ok it would of been more of a problem if you had tried to take them up. asbestos only becomes a problem when removing it, its also in old artex so if your cielings were artexed before the mid 80's it probably contains asbestos as well.

[Award Entertainment 0]

Asbestos was also quite common as a spray-on texture coating for ceilings here in New Zealand up until the early 1980's. It's usually only dangerous if you're inhaling the asbestos powder, so if you removed it whole, there's no real threat. The problem with the texture coating is that the common method of removal is to scrape it off, which causes asbestos dust. We had it in our first house and we fixed it by removing the entire sheets of dry-wall and replacing them.

[Dynamicdiscos 0]

Hmm we don't have any of the fancy artex just the slightly rippled ceilings? Does anyone know how I could tell if this is asbestos based?