Comments on Belt Drive TT's for simple mixing

[Doctorcilantro 0]

I am looking to get to tables for mixing, not scratching etc.

 

I have a nicer table for listening but want a couple I can backcue with to make mixes. I am wondering if Stanton str8-50's would suffice.

 

I figure they would be good enough for simple mix making, they won't grab like 1200's but I figure they probably still have a decent startup time.

 

???

 

thanks,

DC

[Dukesy 0]

Why not have 'a play' on some TT decks before you buy? See which is the right TT for you. Forget the brand names. These days, they are all very good.

http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/smile.gif

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gary 0]

Whats your location/country Doctor? You've not added it to your profile yet.

 

If you're in the UK, then you'll have a great opportunity to try out all/most of the remaining vinyl turntables.

 

The Stanton decks that you mentioned are not made by Stanton...they simply rebadge them..the same decks are available in older Omnitronic/DAP audio brands. They're ok for most situations but suffer from acoustic feedback quite badly, possibly due to their hollow construction acting like a guitars sound box/chamber.

 

Also, the straight tone arms are a scratching "benefit" (supposedly), with S-shaped tone arms offfering less record/stylus wear, and slightly better audio response.

 

If my Technics SL1210s went walkies tomorrow, Id get a Numark TT200, feels pretty much the same as a technics. Possibly wont last 20 years like a Technics though.

[DJ Marky Marc 0]

if there is any chance of holding off untill you can afford direct drive then please do.

 

belt drive is hard work !

 

friend of mine picked up a pair of 1200's on ebay for a bargin price, hunt the small adds, rich kids sell them off when they give up trying to be carl cox and get jobs.

 

good luck...

[kazzachi 0]

have you not considered using vari-speed cd players? Might take a little while to get used to mixing with cds rather than vinyl... but once you are used to it, its a breeze..... maybe worth looking into seeing as everyone reckons the demise of vinyl is looming!

Edited June 11, 2004 by kazzachi

[DJ Marky Marc 0]

http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/tongue.gif VINYL will never die ! but my roady might expire trying to lug it all around.

 

 

 

[joe 0]

QUOTE (DJ Marky Marc @ Jun 10 2004, 11:24 PM)

if there is any chance of holding off untill you can afford direct drive then please do. belt drive is hard work ! friend of mine picked up a pair of 1200's on ebay for a bargin price, hunt the small adds, rich kids sell them off when they give up trying to be carl cox and get jobs. good luck...

Yes, if you are set on getting turntables, it would be worth waiting a bit until you have enough money to buy direct drives. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/smile.gif

[nrgize 0]

DIRECT DRIVES!! Def not Belt Drive http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/thumbdown.gif

[ChrisPointon 0]

Yes, Direct Drive Turntables are the way to go.

 

If anybody is in the UK and want a pair, check out this Bargain http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[DJ Marky Marc 0]

Check out the new Kam DDX3000's people are saying good things about them as a buget deck!

 

has any one had there hands on some yet ?

[Doctorcilantro 0]

Thanks guys....I am in the USA. I think I could get by with anything really formaking mixes. But it makes sense to grab some direct drives.

 

I owned a Denon DP151 DDrive until I gave it to my uncle who was in need of a table (he was broke at the time) and it made a nice birthday present.

 

Unfortunatley, the motor just burned out; it's only about 3 years old.

 

Thanks for the info on the Stanton "str8" arm....I'll avoid it.

 

I will probably check out the Numark tables.

 

~DC~

[Gary 0]

QUOTE (Doctorcilantro @ Jun 17 2004, 03:19 PM)

Thanks for the info on the Stanton "str8" arm....I'll avoid it.

Its probably worth noting that in the whole, old discussion over straight tone arms and s-shaped tone arms, that whilst the differences have been recognised and are definately present, those differences are very, very, very small.

 

An S-shaped tone arm does sound better than a straight one, but only very, very, slightly....A straight tone arm does wear out records and styli faster than an S-shaped tone arm, but only very, very slightly...etc.

 

Whatever happened to linear tracking turntables?

 

As for Vinyl...the question "Will vinyl ever die?" is flawed in terms of NEW vinyl. Not only is vinyl itself no longer the prefered medium for the majority of the worlds various types of DJs, sales of vinyl DJ record decks has been falling steadily for the last few years by nearly 10%pa. DJ CD-deck sales rocketed by 37% in one year recently (source: Music industry census, spanning several manufacturers worldwide).

 

A percemtage of the turn toward cd~decks can be justified by newbies becoming DJs by wanting to play the tracks that their existing interest in music has already furnished their bedroom collections with...and nowadays, its unlikely that they've been unwrapping vinyl for Christmas and Birthdays.

 

Old vinyls will of course continue to change hands for years to come, but there are well sourced articles regarding the 2009/2010 production cut-offs of -new- vinyl records and LPs, as part of the ceasation of PVC related products for environmental reasons.

 

I'll certainly still need to play the occasional vinyl, until my transfering to CD wavs is complete.

 

As demand for styli drops still further, it'll be interesting to see if Ortofon start adding non-vinyl related productsto their range, just like Stanton started to do several years ago, with re-badged Omnitronic CD players etc.

[brianmole 0]

As per previous posts, don't do belt drive. The difference between straight and S shape tonearms is very noticeable when scratching. Try scratching over a bassline on anything with a S-shape tonearm, at some point, the needle will jump. Try this on a straight arm, no problem.

 

I use a pair of Numark TTX1 which have uniquely interchangeable straight or S-shape tonearms, so you've got the best of both worlds.

[transeurope 0]

I have been quite torn on whether to post to this thread because I don't want to appear fascist on the topic of turntables. I am so glad that everybody recommended against belt drives, it saves me having to.

 

Really if you are into your pro hi-fi, I think that there are really only three decks to go for, and in reality two.

 

The three decks are the Technics SL12xx mkx (generation and model unimportant to a chap like yourself), the Vestax PDX2000 (2300) and the Numark TTX-1.

 

The Vestax deck is pretty good, but god help you if it ever goes wrong, and frequently they do. Spare parts are a nightmare. This applies in America too cos I have buddies there. It's more expensive than a Technics, so it's a no-brainer really to avoid it. Not from an engineering point of view, but from an economics point of view.

 

Numark have really good spare parts availabilty. There deck is better than a Tehcnics, but not as reliable. It does have one really nifty feature..digital out. They were the first company to do this, although several companies are doing it now, including even JB Systems (eeek!). I don't know what the TTX clones are like.

 

Technics...well they are reliable. and they are realiable...and did I forget something? Oh yeah, they are realiable!

 

Don't kid yourself. If you are into your hifi, even a TT200 is gonna annoy you. And by DJ standards, that is a good deck. As for the beltdrives...completely forget about them!

 

 

[Doctorcilantro 0]

Interesting,

 

I currently own a VPI belt-drive, Grado PH-1 pre, and Grado Sonata cart. That is my hi-fi setup. One thing I forgot to mention, would the belt drive DJ tables be quieter overall. Don't some of these have built in amps or would the DDrive make them noisier? Or is the overall build quality that much better the the belt drive just flounder in comparision. Just a thought because in the audiophool world...belt drives reign supreme.

 

Regardless, I probably will stear clear of the belt drive tables!

 

~DC~

[Gary 0]

Belts add rumble, and, in some (extreme) situations, add low end feedback.

[transeurope 0]

Doctorcilantro, you are dead right. In the hi-fi world belt drive decks do reign supreme. However one can get guilty of means-ends inversion here as you Yankees might say http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/patriot.gif

 

The cheapest crappiest "hi-fi" (Transeurope adopts East-Coast pose making shapes with fingers to denote quote marks) decks are also belt-drive. Everything depends on the construction.

 

In the DJ world what Gazza says about belt-drive is right. The belt drive decks are similar in construction to the type of decks that you might find in a three-in-one combo unit, what older Brits will call a Music Centre, now doesn't that bring back memories of Woolworths, older readers?).

 

Confusingly enough in the hi-fi world (without imaginary quote marks) , an extreme form of construction is used for belt drive decks, and direct drives are avoided precisely BECAUSE they add rumble.

 

You will find that about 140 years ago (well in the early 70s actually) some geezer in the Matsushita/Panasonic/Technics combo turned his attention to this dilemma and sought ways to produce a hifi deck using the far cheaper direct drive system.

 

The results were quite good. And that has become what we now know as the Technics SL12xx series of record decks.

 

Young Japanese kids were not impressed with their boring old dads record collections and soon picked up on the fact that the Technics had an amazing pick up when you scratched on it. They began to make rude "conversations" between two records by scratching bits of phrases together. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/censored.gif American GIs (predominantly African American) began to pick up on this and the rest is music world history. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/kid.gif

 

I could go on and on and on about this, but basically the SL12XX is a hi-fi deck first and DJ deck second. The Numark TTX1 is the only other option I would consider.

 

BTW did you know that pitch control was put in the Technics series first day so that cultured Japanese middle-aged buffers could alter the pitch of high-brow musical pieces so they could practice something like opera? That tradition continues to this day with the Tascam/Teac Vocal Trainer....

 

 

[ChrisPointon 0]

Glad to see that in some parts of the World Vinyl is still available!. I've forgot what Vinyl looks like http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/014.gif , I can't remember the last time I saw the stuff for sale in a shop http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/scared.gif

[YourBigEvent 0]

My dad told me all about vinyl records, saw a 12" a while back, forgotten how heavy they were.

I played a CD last week and forgot to fade the next track in as I am used to my laptop doing it for me.

[Dukesy 0]

QUOTE

I could go on and on and on about this, but basically the SL12XX is a hi-fi deck first and DJ deck second.

 

True.

[YourBigEvent 0]

I still cannot understand why DJ's rate the 12xx more than a different make, or am I missing something, I still get people ringing up asking if I have some 1210's for hire

[Gary 0]

QUOTE (ADS Entertainments @ Jun 22 2004, 11:04 PM)

I still cannot understand why DJ's rate the 12xx more than a different make, or am I missing something, I still get people ringing up asking if I have some 1210's for hire

Over other makes, the 1200's have got a proven reliability record (no pun intended - yeah right! http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/whistling.gif ). Three things are known to go wrong with the generic SL1200/SL1210.

 

1) The slowly ascending oil-damped target light looses its ability to ascend slowly - instead, it shoots up instantly, with force (after about 5 years)

 

2) The stupid flyleads are captive - requiring a major bit of surgery to replace the horrid things. My 19 year old Techs have got through 3 pairs of new leads each - at a repair cost (last time) of £40 per deck.... (6 x £40 ish = £240.....over 20 years, that £10 per year on Technics repairs...not too bad I guess).

 

3) The MKIII (the first Tech SL1200/1210 with the dip removed from the zero on the pitch slider) had quite a high number of returns for....the new pitch slider mis-behaving, and wavering the pitch. (some things are best left alone).

 

 

It's unlikely that either Vestax, or Numark will get the chance to prove whether their vinyl decks will last like a Technics, as demand for vinyl decks continues to fall.

[transeurope 0]

Umm, because if it wasn't for companies like Technics and Numark we'd all still be screaming into plastic microphones talking over 7" singles played with ceramic carts with earbleeding treble on RT12D decks that skipped all over the place when we played Come On Eileen to girls who danced around handbags?

 

Or perhaps we wouldn't be playing at all while Vestax waited for a containerload of fuses to come from China making you realise why the song is called Slow Boat To China?

 

Seriously....once bitten twice shy. DJs have been treated as a sub-species by their equipment suppliers for far too long. People are reluctant to depart from the one or two companies that offer quality products/service.

 

I can't really think of too many decks that come close to a Technics.

 

If I were a DJ that got conned into buying some crap turntable by the local "professional" dealer with my hard-earned pocket money as a teenager and then saw my months' savings disappear in the space of a few nights's use, I can see why someone would swear never to move beyond Technics again.

 

That decision wouldn't be wrong. No one lost a gig for using Technics. Plenty lost them from from not using them.

 

Just out of interest what are you suggesting as an alternative?

[Gary 0]

QUOTE (transeurope @ Jun 22 2004, 11:39 PM)

Just out of interest what are you suggesting as an alternative?

Various non-vinyl solutions in 95% of cases, where I'm asked by budding wannabes.

 

I'd only recommend vinyl turntables nowadays to those with huge vinyl collections already.

 

Those other solutions would be CD-decks and/or Laptops, or waiting for a hybrid option...

[transeurope 0]

OK, Gazza beat me to replying to ADS's post so it looks like I am replying to his post last time, not ADS. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

 

Reading Gazza's post reminded me that even Technics have one Severe Known Issue that can screw you in a gig.

 

Ladies and Gentlemen, presenting The Incredible Disappearing Power Switch. Turning on the Tex is done by flipping a disc on a post. Over the years DJs have developed a technique of cutting the power to the deck by turning the disc to off. This lets the record gently coast to a halt as the inertia in the motor dies down.

 

Unfortunately the original design parameters of the deck was never intended for so many power cycles. The SWITCH WILL WEAR OUT. In doing so, a connection holding the switch to the black disk will just disappear waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy down into the deck. It's a b**** to get back up again.

 

Moral of the story. ALWAYS have a spare source of music, no matter what gear you are using.

 

Having said that. Technics are still the most reliable. And this particular problem manifests itself only to people who "coast" and only after years of doing it.

 

 

I have to add this issue into the thread to be fair to all concerned....