A couple of questions about DJ software

[RobbieD 0]

At some point I may consider moving from CD to PC.

 

I like to do a lot of beat mixing, and have a few questions:

 

Do any of the systems have the “Master Tempo” type feature, that allows you to change the speed, without the pitch changing? (ie speed a track up without the singer sounding like a chipmunk.) This feature also allows you to use the pitch bend heavily without hearing the sound “slur” in pitch.

 

I see some systems have an auto beat mix feature. Mixing house and recent music with it’s fixed tempo is easy, but how well do these systems coupe with long running mixes on early disco tracks with the constantly changing tempo of a real drummer? (When mixing manually, mixing these tracks require lots of use of the pitch bend buttons to keep in sync.)

 

Thanks for your help.

[brianmole 0]

Traktor DJ seems to do it better than others. Come round one evening, it'll be a pleasure to show you.

[jackcu 0]

AtomixMP3 (and, I assume its successors) does the tempo thing while keeping the tune in pitch. As far as beatmatching goes, I'm not sure what happens when the tempo varies. I'd rarely be playing 2 tracks out for such a long time that it would matter. If I see the tempo starting to wander, I just use the cursor keys to bring the errant track back into line.

 

Cheers,

 

Jack.

[Gary 0]

QUOTE (RobbieD @ Jul 6 2005, 03:24 PM)

At some point I may consider moving from CD to PC. I like to do a lot of beat mixing, and have a few questions: Do any of the systems have the “Master Tempo” type feature, that allows you to change the speed, without the pitch changing? (ie speed a track up without the singer sounding like a chipmunk.) This feature also allows you to use the pitch bend heavily without hearing the sound “slur” in pitch.

Master Tempo, or the newer "Key Adjust" can take a lot of computing/processor power to maintain "Chipmunk-free" lyrics.

 

Some of the current professional CD-decks are using dedicated SHARC-processors purely for their Key Adjust functions.

 

With the Auto-mixing option on some DJ packages, dont you think that you'd miss a certain amount of personal satisfaction if you just had to click on "Mix"? rather than cueing, listening, pitch adjusting, listening again etc...

 

"Auto mix" also seems to be the first verbal stone that gets hurled during debates about DJ'ing with modern technology/software - which is a shame considering that most DJ software allows fully manual mixing too.

Edited July 6, 2005 by Gary

[jackcu 0]

QUOTE (Gary @ Jul 6 2005, 03:16 PM)

"Auto mix" also seems to be the first verbal stone that gets hurled during debates about DJ'ing with modern technology/software - which is a shame considering that most DJ software allows fully manual mixing too.

true - I always do it manually - passes the time LOL

[RobbieD 0]

QUOTE (jackcu @ Jul 6 2005, 04:02 PM)

I'd rarely be playing 2 tracks out for such a long time that it would matter.

Well a typical mix for me (and one that I actually did last Saturday) is to lay the whole intro of Edwin Stars "Contact" over The Tramps' "Disco Inferno". This is a 90 second mix, and both tracks vary in tempo during it, requiring lots of stabs on the pitch bend to keep it in without anyone noticing an out of place beat.

 

I could give many more examples.

 

QUOTE (Gary @ Jul 6 2005, 04:16 PM)

With the Auto-mixing option on some DJ packages, dont you think that you'd miss a certain amount of personal satisfaction if you just had to click on "Mix"? rather than cueing, listening, pitch adjusting, listening again etc...

Yes I would, and don't really intend to normally use any auto mix function.

 

I just wondered how good they are. Can they only mix fixed tempo house, or can they cope with varying tempo oldies.

 

Now if they could cope with the older stuff, it may useful for when someone comes up to talk to me when I'm half way through a complicated mix. At present I say, I'll be with you in a min, but I wonder if they understand that it takes concentration to mix older tracks, or they just think I'm being a bit rude.

 

With newer stuff I can keep one ear on the mix, and listen to them with the other, as little adjustment is needed once in the mix. (I once produced a record where I mixed 4 tracks at once live!)

[Gary 0]

QUOTE (RobbieD @ Jul 6 2005, 05:36 PM)

I just wondered how good they are. Can they only mix fixed tempo house, or can they cope with varying tempo oldies.

Obviously it'll vary from software to software, but I'd wager that shifting drifting BPM's eg: A real live drummer, would scare the Hyper-threaded bits (and bytes) off of an auto mix function.

 

Similarly if the software only took a look at the first few seconds of the track to establish the BPM, it would have a bit of a shock with Mr Starrs "Contact" which has a very different BPM at the beginning, compared to the rest of the track (at least the pink vinyl 12inch version does http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/flirt.gif )

 

The BPM would be hovering around an average eg: a tune with a manual BPM of say, 120 might drift between 114 and 126 (allowing for a +/- 5% drummer inaccuracy, especially near the end of a track as he's getting tired.

 

My way around varying BPM's on manual drumming is to apply a seamless loop to a fairly accurate bit and use that for the mixing - giving me a fairly stable section to mix from. The same idea can be applied to the beginning of the next track too, so you're then mixing with two stable BPM's.

[RobbieD 0]

QUOTE (Gary @ Jul 6 2005, 05:55 PM)

My way around varying BPM's on manual drumming is to apply a seamless loop to a fairly accurate bit and use that for the mixing - giving me a fairly stable section to mix from. The same idea can be applied to the beginning of the next track too, so you're then mixing with two stable BPM's.

Naw, that's no fun!

 

Joking aside, I do that sometimes - particularly if I want to extend the intro (did this with "Brown Sugar" last Saturday) but prefer the challenge of doing it the hard way!

[Gary 0]

QUOTE (RobbieD @ Jul 6 2005, 06:00 PM)

QUOTE (Gary @ Jul 6 2005, 05:55 PM) My way around varying BPM's on manual drumming is to apply a seamless loop to a fairly accurate bit and use that for the mixing - giving me a fairly stable section to mix from.  The same idea can be applied to the beginning of the next track too, so you're then mixing with two stable BPM's. Naw, that's no fun!   Joking aside, I do that sometimes - particularly if I want to extend the intro (did this with "Brown Sugar" last Saturday) but prefer the challenge of doing it the hard way! Well yes, the hard way is more fun...well actually its less fun - its more fraut, but sooo much more satisfying when (if http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/huh.gif ) its all works out.   Key Adjust (master tempo) is a marvellous bit of audio camouflage for the ol' wow'n'flutter, when you need to keep dabbing those Pitch bend buttons...

Edited July 6, 2005 by Gary

[Dukesy 0]

PCDJ FX and PCDJ VRM will do it (master tempo - adjust the tempo but keep the pitch).

 

A couple of ways around the 'Live Drumming' prob is to time stretch the tune and match it to a constant BPM.

This is a long and lengthy process but the results are fantastic - look at JXLs 'Little Less Conversation' as just a basic example.

 

But I believe there are a couple of programs that 'read ahead' the wave form of the music tracks played that automatically 'match' the BPMs of the two tracks.

 

The name of the software escapes me but I looked at one such program at the DJU Max.

 

 

 

 

[DJ Dicky 0]

The program you are thinking of is VisualDiscoMix.

 

The software analyses the whole track when it is loaded and is able to match tracks with changing tempo very well.

 

Have a look at the demo from www.nextec.co.uk you can try any mixes you want. The demo is not time limited in any way it just has less features than the full versions. Master tempo is there as is the full beat matching function. Try it out and see what you think.

 

The beat matching is better than anything else I have tried and a received a new release of the full version today in which they have improved the beat match algorithm even more

 

Dicky

 

Edited July 8, 2005 by DJ Dicky

[Digital discos 0]

I went for OTS DJ in the end, I didn't want any of these Auto Beatmixing features.

 

I prefer to mix myself. Traktor seems to have a huge amount of latency compared to ots so not to great for manual beatmixing.

 

There is an auto dj function in OTS which is very good for just seaging between tracks, but it doesn't beatmix for you http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/smile.gif

 

There are loads of keyboard shortcuts in ots which is really handy!

[spirito 0]

Traktor DJ studio will do it all, all you need to do is analyse the tracks and add beat markers for the tricky ones.

 

The key lock is pretty impressive too.

[FDDJ 0]

QUOTE (DJ Dicky @ Jul 8 2005, 08:41 PM)

The software analyses the whole track when it is loaded and is able to match tracks with changing tempo very well.

I'm pretty sure Mixmeister works in exactly the same way.

[Steve_Mitchell 0]

Don`t do it,,,, use your Cd`s pc dj-ING TAKES ALL THE FUN OUT OF THE JOB.

[Gary 0]

QUOTE (stevemitchell @ Jul 16 2005, 04:13 PM)

Don`t do it,,,, use your Cd`s pc dj-ING TAKES ALL THE FUN OUT OF THE JOB.

Although some DJ software can attempt auto-mixing, with varying degrees of success, it should never be forgotten that all DJ software allows fully manual mixing too, keeping the whole output in the hands, mind and ears of the human DJ.

 

I don't mind my CD-decks doing Auto-cue (to beginning of audio in tracks), Auto BPM counters (they're there but I don't use them) , or even Relay play for background music, where the next track begins a few seconds before the last one ends.'

 

However, any level of software/firmware "Auto-mix" where the decks pitches are adjusted to match the BPMs would be an unused feature in my book. It would be like sacking one of the skills which should be naturally aquired by DJs.

[Dukesy 0]

I personally disagree with the 'auto-mix' application of software for pure back to back mixing as the software still can not account for the human element......yes you can set cue points and arrange waitlists (a human element) but after you've mucked about with all that - you may just as well do the mix live anyway....or stick on a quality production CD mix for same effect!

 

The ability to set a precise cue-point / mulitple cue-points and use the digital playback device as an aid to your 'mix presentations' still requires a skill factor that one would use on CDs or records - it enhances your presentation especially if you are a mix DJ. So all those hard worked hours as a DJ are not wasted on the new technology. We still have the hindsight to present a function and the foresight to adapt to new formats that we can manipulate - not only for ours but our audience's benefit.

 

Looking for the 45 single or album in the collection years ago was great......then CD came along.....I remember the arguments back in '83 on what could be done with records and CDs....look at the progression of technology since and what we still carry around for a function!

 

If CD mixing systems had the ability to set more than 16 cue points of a CD track in memory - yes it would enhance that DJs ability to 'jump' to a desired point in the song and play the track from that point no different to that of what software does anyway.....ok, if the DJ has no mixing skills and is not interested in mixing, fine. That DJ may not want all the extra features of a CD mixing system or a digial mix system.

 

I personally believe that with all the new and different ways that a DJ can present their individual show is not only exciting but can be just as fun too!

The progression of DJ audio and visual aids is getting better and better year on year fo us to peruse.

 

I think DJing is still as exciting and fun as it was when I first started....which was crank handles and wax cylinders! http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif