Digital DJ Licence

[tonyj 0]

so if all your songs are legally downloaded direct to your laptop from say itunes, then i presume you wont need this licence????

 

hypothetical question

[pdarnett 0]

sorry to add more pain into this , but spoke to MCPS today and they say you would still need to purchase an SG6 license for £500 in addition to the digital dj license.

 

the digital dj license permits you to USE media stored on a laptop for public performance, not to transfer it

 

the MCPS SG6 allows you to copy it there in the first place.

 

£700 and counting...

 

 

[High Fidelity 0]

Sounds right to me.

 

An analagy(sp) that I thought of while in the bath http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/fear.gif was a supermarket having a two for one sale, but you only get the two for one if you pay for the one with the little DRM sticker on it first. If you pay for the one without the DRM sticker first then you have to pay a second time for the one with the little DRM sticker. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/wallbash.gif http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/wallbash.gif

 

I'm sure that all this has come about because of file sharing, a practice which I strongly dissagree with. If you want music, whether it's for business like us, or a jukebox supplier, or for your personal listening, then you should pay for it.

 

I don't believe that it should be illegal to transfer music to a different medium, provided you have purchased an original. And there most certainly should not be any extra charges.

 

On another thread, I think it was the one about the SG6 licence, I'm sure Gary was told that one would have to get written permission from the copywright holder for every track that you wanted to rip.

 

Now I know the PPl is a big organisation, but I have to wonder if THEY have got written permission from every copywright holder, to be able to grant Joe public a licence. I don't see how they can have considering the numbers involved. And if they haven't, then what's the legal position if you rip a track that they haven't got the written permission of the copywright holder. Who's breaking the law, you or them? http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/533.gif

[mikeee 0]

And don't forget that PPL, only cover about 60% of all music, so if you want a track and it's not listed with them - Forget it.

 

Lets do some maths. (nearest round figures) Based on 20,000 tracks

 

Excisting PPL Licence - £130.00

MCPS - SG6 £2,350.00

New PPL / MM Lic £235.00 (min charge)

 

Total £2,715.00

 

According to DJ's the average price is £120.00, so thats 22.63 gigs to pay for that, or 11.32 gigs at £240.00.

 

Realistically, to do the above, pay the taxman, all the running expences of the show etc, and still have some beer money left at the end of the day, the average price of a gig will be £384.62, regardless of where you live. Damn, I left off the beer money, £20 per week, Oh look, we've broken the £400.00 barrier.

[Dukesy 0]

I agree with Mikeee.

 

A muddle of thoughts admitted....

 

Mikeee, could you / Derek in the Association capacity contact the MCPS and confirm that a legally paid for mp3 (what ever type format) downloaded song track or album on to a PC or laptop can be played back as one would purchase a CD from a shop shelf (totally legit as they have recently suggested / confirmed verbally) for Disc Jockey purposes / in a function.

 

Can someone / anyone confirm the various digital rights T+Cs for downloading a track to a PC when purchased, i.e. how many minimum or maximum times it can be burnt to disc or 'transfered' to another machine (if it exists).

 

Do we have the press release of the intended change in the venue entertainment licence (in other words, what venues are going to receive in print) where venues are informed of what we know about the 're-voke' of license / reporting of DJs, digital useage, etc???

 

What is the stance to laptop users in Marquee gigs on someones private property such as a Wedding?

 

 

Lastly, a while back, it was 'investigated' how much it would cost us as members to pay for our own legit downloads per month of digital media.

We needed 70+ members (if my memory serves me right).

We fell short of the required amount to warrent investigation further......

http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/rolleyes.gif

 

[mikeee 0]

Dan, When you download, click on the licence, it will tell you that it is for personal use only, so you would need an SG6 to move it and a PPL to play it. Provided it is a song covered by PPL in the first place.

[stoke53 0]

Well i think the dj industry as a whole has been very slow to license the dj industry altogether. Personally i think that a license to actually work as a dj should be enforced and this would hopefully drive out all the cheapo cowboys but the onus also falls on the pubs and clubs who employ dj's, as a lot want dj's for the smallest fee they can get hence thats how cowboys survive. I don't think they thought way back in the 70's that the dj industry was going to explode as it has done and now with cheaper equipment on the market it grows even quicker with many mobile dj's just setting up to earn a few quid to pay for the beer especially over the xmas period. Some of the worst offenders for not wanting to pay for decent or legal dj's are the hotels as they make rather a lot of money out of it.

Well I suppose these are just some of my personal opinions don't know if anyone else agrees with this but would be interesting to know

 

 

Alan

[Gary 0]

Wooooooooo dare horsey!

 

No, this new license does not require the SG-6 license to partner it for transferring existing music (on legitimate originals ) onto a hard drive.

 

Check the information given in the very first post of this thread.

 

QUOTE

The PPL Digital DJ Licence allows DJs to transfer up to 20,000 tracks onto a computer or MP3 device to play out in clubs, pubs and other venues. In addition, the Licence entitles DJs to keep a back-up of all digital copies on a separate database or hard drive.

 

 

 

[Dukesy 0]

QUOTE (pdarnett @ Aug 16 2005, 10:13 PM)

sorry to add more pain into this , but spoke to MCPS today and they say you would still need to purchase an SG6 license for £500 in addition to the digital dj license. the digital dj license permits you to USE media stored on a laptop for public performance, not to transfer it the MCPS SG6 allows you to copy it there in the first place. £700 and counting...

So what does this mean?

[RobbieD 0]

Question: Does this new licence cover you for several pieces of hardware, or do you need a licence for each.

 

For example, would one licence cover you it you were a PC DJ with tracks on your hard disc, but also had a couple of iPods full of the same tracks as back up?

[Gary 0]

QUOTE (discodirect @ Aug 17 2005, 04:02 AM)

QUOTE (pdarnett @ Aug 16 2005, 10:13 PM) sorry to add more pain into this , but spoke to MCPS today and they say you would still need to purchase an SG6 license for £500 in addition to the digital dj license. the digital dj license permits you to USE media stored on a laptop for public performance, not to transfer it the MCPS SG6 allows you to copy it there in the first place. £700 and counting... So what does this mean? My guess is that it means that not everyone "gifted" with a phone at MCPS, has become fully aware, in-depth, in 24 hours what PPL (a separate organisation) are now offering DJs.   It'll take a while, and a lot more FAQ's, for even all the staff at the precise companies themselves to know all the possible ins and outs, whats and wherefores of the DJ dubbing license, let alone associated companies within the industry.   Digital DJ license + PPL music licence (either held by the DJ, or the venue)[if "do" is public rather than private, should be all.

Edited August 17, 2005 by Gary

[ian 0]

QUOTE (wizard @ Aug 16 2005, 05:38 PM)

I sometimes copy a purchased cd onto cdr as my cd player sometimes doesn't like cd singles with cdrom video. ( i prefer cd singles to albums) it's also useful if i scratch a cd i just rip another from the original. would I need this license if not stored on laptop...... or am I being naughty in just copying them in the first place ( even tho not for gain) http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/scared.gif

I believe that copying like this is illegal. The same way that taping a vinyl album was illegal back in the day (and the old idea that it's okay to copy an album if you own it is also a myth).

 

It also means that things which could make our life easier (like burning CD's with popular tracks on - and with CD text - to reduce the number of CD's we have to carry) are actually illegal. It's a pain that I have to carry around loads of albums where I'll only ever play 2 or 3 tracks off some of those albums. Having said that, it's sometimes useful to have the albums for the times you get that unusual request.

 

Is this the sort of thing the SG6 licence is meant to address?

[jackcu 0]

Thanks to Gary for pointing out that the SG6 isn't needed - I was seriously thinking about leaving the laptop at home in future and reverting to CDs.

 

After thinking about this some more last night, I figure it's just another business expense. OK, I'd rather not have to pay an extra £235 per year, but it's only a couple of extra gigs and means I don't have to carry all my CDs with me.

 

I agree with various comments about the venues. IF it means that they will demand the paperwork up front, it would be a good thing. It will mean that the cowboys are forced out or have to go legit, and it might make the venues enforce other things such as PLI and PAT.

 

I think I'll start the indexing exercise and then apply. Has anyone else gone for it yet?

 

Cheers,

 

Jack.

[jackcu 0]

QUOTE (tonyj @ Aug 16 2005, 07:20 PM)

so if all your songs are legally downloaded direct to your laptop from say itunes, then i presume you wont need this licence???? hypothetical question

My understanding is that this is already the case, however, the entire area is extremely confusing so I'm probably wrong.

 

Jack.

[Gary 0]

QUOTE (jackcu @ Aug 17 2005, 11:21 AM)

After thinking about this some more last night, I figure it's just another business expense. OK, I'd rather not have to pay an extra £235 per year, but it's only a couple of extra gigs and means I don't have to carry all my CDs with me.

Perfect thinking Jackcu... http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/thumbup.gif

 

Yes, its just another business expense, after all... A DJ who uses vinyl 2/3 nights per week has the business/running expense of £100~£150 worth of Styli and Cartridges each year (More if they're a styli-wrecking turntablist...and even more when you factor in half a dozen replacement crossfaders which turntablists tend to get through regularly.

 

And...as a business expense, you add it to your receipts/expenses total on your tax returns - effectively its £250 that you simply didn't earn (or £200, remember you can buy it without all the Mastermix value-added extras)

 

On a much smaller, indirect costing - Less replacement record boxes/CD flighcases to buy (admittedly you dont buy those yearly), less wear'n'tear on CD-decks, possibly a smaller vehicle to run/maintain.

 

And, what cost can anyone put on a spine/back that lasts longer and hurts less due to less record boxes being unloaded/carried in/carried out/loaded, and the associated time saved at each and every gig.

 

Once I get confirmation from Mastermix or PPL (I've emailed both) that the new license covers the act of moving existing owned tracks from Vinyl to CDR, rather than harddrive being the only covered destination - I'll restart my vinyl > CDR conversion/recording project in the new year, and gladly buy one of the new licences.

 

However, what I might also do at the same time, is store the record label/record company info in the ID3 Tag, and pursue the SG-6 idea also... why? well the SG-6 is a one-off payment, rather than a yearly/annual on-going one.

[jackcu 0]

QUOTE (Gary @ Aug 17 2005, 10:38 AM)

However, what I might also do at the same time, is store the record label/record company info in the ID3 Tag, and pursue the SG-6 idea also... why? well the SG-6 is a one-off payment, rather than a yearly/annual on-going one.

I'd do the same if it meant no more payments in future. However, doesn't it just cover you to move songs during the year of the licence? My understanding was that it gave you a year to rip up to the limit. You could then play all of that music but not rip any more once it ran out.

 

Damn, this is confusing.

 

Jack.

[Gary 0]

QUOTE (jackcu @ Aug 17 2005, 11:43 AM)

However, doesn't it just cover you to move songs during the year of the licence? My understanding was that it gave you a year to rip up to the limit. You could then play all of that music but not rip any more once it ran out. Damn, this is confusing. Jack.

Thats right - So...I'd use the year of SG-6 to move all my existing stuff - then get all my new stuff via approved/legal downloads, which then wouldnt need either license - going by current "smallprint".

[jackcu 0]

QUOTE (Gary @ Aug 17 2005, 10:50 AM)

Thats right - So...I'd use the year of SG-6 to move all my existing stuff - then get all my new stuff via approved/legal downloads, which then wouldnt need either license - going by current "smallprint".

A cunning plan :)

 

However, I think you'd still find the odd occasion when you see a 4 CD set in Woolies for £4 that has a few tracks on it that you want - I know I would. Although I buy most stuff from iTunes, I'm still a sucker for a bargain compilation.

 

Cheers,

 

Jack.

[Gary 0]

QUOTE (jackcu @ Aug 17 2005, 11:57 AM)

QUOTE (Gary @ Aug 17 2005, 10:50 AM) Thats right - So...I'd use the year of SG-6 to move all my existing stuff - then get all my new stuff via approved/legal downloads, which then wouldnt need either license - going by current "smallprint". A cunning plan :)   However, I think you'd still find the odd occasion when you see a 4 CD set in Woolies for £4 that has a few tracks on it that you want - I know I would. Although I buy most stuff from iTunes, I'm still a sucker for a bargain compilation.   Cheers,   Jack. Me too... in the situation that you mention, I too would buy the £4 compilation and play it from the CD-decks. Best of both worlds.

[jackcu 0]

Does anyone have a view on the following from the FAQ on the digitaldj site?:

 

"please note that in the near future PPL will be requiring the storage of sound recordings in digital form to be protected by Digital Rights Management.

You therefore are advised to use a format that will comply with Digital Rights Management requirements."

 

I'm not sure about the implications of this. When you rip from a CD you own there is no DRM built in. I use AtomixMP3 which won't play DRM'd songs. I'd like to have more detail about just what DRM solution they are talking about. Has anyone mentioned this to them yet, before I approach them?

 

Cheers,

 

Jack.

 

 

[Gary 0]

Its likely that there will be a piece of PC software where you type in your name/PPL licence/contact details and the software creates genuine DRM's for every audio file it finds on your PC; tieing those tracks (and their backups) to your PC.

 

The software will NOT overright DRM's that are already in place on restricted files.

 

That way, if some sneaky-watsit sneakily copies your harddrive (eg: Gear left up at all-day wedding, or each night in December), then unbeknownst to them, your contact details go along with the tracks.

 

That way, if the sneaky whatsit then sells a few hardrives full of MP3's from you, and a few other DJ's at the same venue, theres a virtual paper-trail back to that certain venue. "Oh so, all you DJ's played at the Golden Mile Club then?"

 

 

[jackcu 0]

That's also a bit worrying - what's to stop them prosecuting the poor DJ who has had the stuff stolen, thinking he sold it?

 

DRM such as you suggest would be fine with me as long as it does not make the playing of the tracks unstable AND can be transferred to another PC when it is upgraded - I've heard that current DRM can have problems with this although I haven't moved any of my iTunes tracks yet.

 

Cheers,

 

Jack.

[RobbieD 0]

And will DRM work with wav files?

[ian 0]

QUOTE (Gary @ Aug 17 2005, 02:18 PM)

Its likely that there will be a piece of PC software where you type in your name/PPL licence/contact details and the software creates genuine DRM's for every audio file it finds on your PC; tieing those tracks (and their backups) to your PC.

 

That's okay for PC's, but this would presumeably have to work across all platforms (like custom hard disc-based DJ-ing machines and iPods), so it might be a lot more difficult than that.

 

QUOTE (Gary @ Aug 17 2005, 02:18 PM)

That way, if some sneaky-watsit sneakily copies your harddrive (eg: Gear left up at all-day wedding, or each night in December), then unbeknownst to them, your contact details go along with the tracks. That way, if the sneaky whatsit then sells a few hardrives full of MP3's from you, and a few other DJ's at the same venue, theres a virtual paper-trail back to that certain venue.  "Oh so, all you DJ's played at the Golden Mile Club then?"

 

A more paranoid person would be expecting that the DJ gets a knock on their door asking why they've been selling harddrives full of MP3s.

[tonyj 0]

ok just wondering if every cd says "not for commerical use or unauthorised public performance", why dont we need a licence for those????

 

why just for a legally downloaded tune?? is it because the rights include the phrase "commercially exploit any of the Content" arnt they both just the same meaning???