Need new Digital Loudspeaker Management Controller

[superstardeejay 0]

Hi folks, I'm looking for an alternative digital speaker management system to replace the Behringer Ultradrive Pro units we use at the moment. We have a tight budget, so the usual BSS/Rane/DBX etc are out of the question.

 

I've been looking at the DAP PRO, PHONIC and ALTO controllers, has anyone used them or know of something similar you can recommend? We need fully adjustable output limiters and gains, and it must be a digital system.

 

 

[DJ Dicky 0]

Hi The Alto stuff is normally very good.

 

What is wrong with the Behringer units?

 

Dicky

[norty303 0]

Yeah, i was going to ask the same. the Behringers have very good sound quality, even compared to more expensive units like the dbx. To be honest the only one i'd upgrade to from there would be a DR260 driverack but that's megabucks in comparison.

 

If you're having problems, post up and i'll try to help out with fixes coz i've got one and i've had to sort it from new. It's not hard but Behringer have had some problems with internal connectors that cause audio probs on some units.

 

I'd probably stay away from Phonic and Alto stuff myself

[DJ Dicky 0]

I asked because I supply the Behringer units and it is always important to know if people have problems.

 

Dicky

[norty303 0]

I take it you know about the IDC connector problem then?

 

And the I/O board, case isolation problem?

 

And the sometimes funny software glitches?

 

 

 

Don't get me wrong, i love mine but those are some of the issues people have encountered that i know of.

 

 

[superstardeejay 0]

The Behringer Ultradrive is excellent and we've had several successful installations, it's basically a cheaper clone of a DBX Driverack. In fact I love them! The price is good and they're easy to use, sound good and there's password protection against phantom dabblers.

 

Unfortunately Behringer are having supply problems with the Ultradrive and other products such as their new passive speakers. Try getting an ultradrive at trade price this side of Christmas! I dont think it will happen.

 

I'm told by one of their main importers that it's because Behringer 'buy' spare manufacturing capacity in the far east at knock-down prices, effectively getting their low costs because of cancelled orders or spare manufacturing capability. Apparently the ultradrive is looking for a new manufacturer at the moment after Behringer 'switched' factories in the Autumn for some reason. Hence our dilemma!

 

 

[superstardeejay 0]

PS, regarding dodgy connectors, some of Behringer's other units such as the Ultramizer had a similar fault. The earthing problem of pcbs is also present in some of their FX units inside mixers, causing either a nasty hum loop or strange 'digital' warbling on the audio.

 

I think glitches such as these are generally present on many items from many brands who outsource in the far east, Tesco recently had a batch of freeview boxes on sale with no PCB's fitted in them...despite having QC stickers on them!!!!! After all, they're shifting literally container-loads of very complicated stuff every day, there's bound to be the odd one here and there which gets through the net.

 

Behringer have also sent out DJ mixers with the mains transformers wrongly wired, (they usually burn out their transformers a day after warranty runs out..) and similar faults, the list is endless!! Citronic CD players (CD2 etc, also KAM) with buggy firmware which causes strange numerals to appear briefly on the display when changing tracks, Stageline DMX desks which show Chinese characters on the LCD if you hold down a button for too long, Showtec DMX desks which crash if you tap the sync button too fast...........

 

Even the good old NJD IQMX80 desk had a software glitch, (at least ones I've played with), namely, if you let the memory battery go flat, it would power up with rubbish in the memory, causing it to crash during a show unless you manually over-wrote every user program with sensible values.

 

 

 

 

[RobbieD 0]

I would recommend the DBX Driveracks.

 

Although, at £350-£400, the Driverack PA is more expensive than the Behringer Ultradrive Pro, keep in mind that the extra features of the Driverack make it equivalent to a Ultradrive Pro and Ultra Curve Pro used together.

 

Right, I'm off to bed.... http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/sleep1.gif

[HeadlineDJ 0]

I just ordered a new DCX2496 too... fingers crossed it arrives :)

 

As for these grounding faults, is it a simple case of the PCBs are inadvertantly grounding to the case or they are NOT grounding correctly to the case?

 

I mean is it a simple case of cleaning some PCB silk screening away from ground points etc where screws go through the PCB, or is it a case of adding a new grounding lead from PCB ground to case, or should these be fully insulated from the case?

 

As for the IDC,, is it the solder side or the other side?

 

Cheers.

 

[transeurope 0]

Unfortunately there is a lot of nonsense spoken by people "in the know" about Behringer.

 

Behringer factories are mostly wholly-owned:

QUOTE

Extensive investment in wholly-owned state of the art manufacturing facilities in China together with Real-time ERP and MRP global systems deployed across an impressive worldwide network of subsidiaries have made BEHRINGER a true “global player.”.

Source

 

Supply difficulties for a long period of time are because Behringer aim for a 98% quality control threshold. If a good starts failing more than 2% of the time it is put on a "watchlist". After it goes 5% failure rate they stop manufacturing until they can re-source a rogue component or change design/plant operating procedure. A lower than 90% success rate means that stock is pulled from their warehouse.

 

Given the problems people are reporting with the DCX2496 that is the most likely cause of the unavailability.

 

 

[norty303 0]

The problem s with the grounding were due to some components not being trimmed short enough and grounding against the case - easily fixed by trimming and isolation (I used gaffa tape!)

 

The IDC's seem to be a simple case of a poor component. I've heard of cases where people have had to bend the pins slightly in order for them to make contact inside the socket, just a sloppy fit really. Reseating with switch cleaner solves it in most cases.

 

QUOTE

I would recommend the DBX Driveracks. Although, at £350-£400, the Driverack PA is more expensive than the Behringer Ultradrive Pro, keep in mind that the extra features of the Driverack make it equivalent to a Ultradrive Pro and Ultra Curve Pro used together.

 

I wouldn't recommend the DRPA because it has limits that the DCX doesn't such as only 10ms of delay, which simply isn't enough correction for extreme speaker placements or if you run long path bass horns. Also the setups available are not as varied or configurable as the DCX (even the DR260 has the same problem) e.g. You cannot by default run mono subbass and bass with stereo mids and tops without having to resort to going deep into the menus and using filters to achieve the desired effect.

 

You also only get 2 inputs, which is no good if you wish to run a monitor feed through it. The dbx's come to life when using the driveware software but the DCX has a much better interface on the unit.

[DJ Marky Marc 0]

have used both the Alto and the behringer products and liked both...

 

Behringer is great value for money... you can down load the software from there web site and play with it on your pc before you commit to buying one and installing it....

[HeadlineDJ 0]

Excellent, thanks guys!

 

SO the first thing I'll do is whip the lid off and make sure there are no grounding problems and at the same time I'll reseat the IC's in their sockets.. actually something that's been done for the last couple of decades.

 

Even on production lines where IC's are hand populated, you have the IC roller former, which are a luimp of metal as a base, and a polished steel track which the IC sit's over and yousimply push the IC through a pair of rollers which form the pins.

 

I found that hand forming the pins was not only faster but never resulted in bad connections.

 

8+ yrs in doing this resulted in becoming a dab hand in forming IC's for a perfect fit :)

 

Anyway's thanks for the heads up, and I'll report back if I find anything wrong inside my unit.

 

[superstardeejay 0]

The info on Behringer came from a large Behringer distributor in the North.

 

I too saw the blurb on Behringer's website, it says the factories are wholly-owned, but wholly owned by whom?

 

 

[transeurope 0]

This wouldn't be the same distributor that promotes the DJX700 as a "copy" of the Pioneer DJM600, would it?

 

That unfortunate situation is fair neither to Behringer or Pioneer, but I'm sure it shifts quite a few DJX700s.

 

The factories are wholly owned by Behringer Studiotechnik GmBH. Some very few are owned by a company called something like Behringer Macao. Some are partnerships with Hornsonic and some are partnerships with another crowd that make American Audio speakers. This is necessary because Chinese law doesn't allow for 100% foreign ownership in some areas, speaker drivers being one of them.

 

Very occasionally Behringer contract out manufacture, but so do most companies, that is not unusual. It is not part of a strategy to soak up time in factories with cancelled orders though.

 

Under German law it would be very hard for a company as large as Behringer to import a lot of goods from China if they couldn't guarantee the human rights of their workers.

[superstardeejay 0]

Believe me I'd much rather order the Ultradrive, I just can't find any in Western Europe! The DBX price is over budget in this case.

 

The Altodrive looks tempting but I can't get any sensible answers from Proel at the moment, so that leaves the Phonic i7200, no graphical LCD but at least their customer service is good.

 

The Behringer distributor I spoke to re-far east manufacturing wouldn't handle DJ products as they are a musical instrument wholesaler.