Would You Work For...

[YourBigEvent 0]

THIS IS A MADE UP TOPIC, AND THE PRICES QUOTED ARE ALSO MADE UP.

 

So someone calls you to do a disco, and says the fee is £200. You take the booking, and find out that the person who gave you the work charged £450.

 

Do you do anything about it ?

 

 

[deejaymitch 0]

No, I do the job for the price agreed. If I was happy to take the booking at that price, I shouldn't complain.

 

However it would make me rethink my current pricing policy and my target market (particularly if the function went well). I would also be very wary if this intermediary offered me work again, as I wouldn't be happy to receive such a small percentage of the fee.

[YourBigEvent 0]

Why, if you are happy with your fee, does it matter whether the other guys makes £5, £50 or £500 ?

[deejaymitch 0]

Why, if you are happy with your fee, does it matter whether the other guys makes £5, £50 or £500 ?

 

It does. I think one of the big reasons many people (in all industries) go self-employed is that we resent other people making a lot of money off of our hard work. I don't work for agents because I would resent a third party taking any of my fee, but for someone to take such a huge amount would be galling.

 

In the first instance, I wouldn't complain as I agreed the fee. But I would be angry that I wasn't given all the information that I believe to be pertinent. I'd certainly be wary of that individual in future. If I wanted to be an money-making puppet for someone, I'd go on X-Factor.

Edited April 8, 2009 by deejaymitch

[Dukesy 0]

Still in make up then Andy? :karen:

 

Topic moved from public viewing area.

[YourBigEvent 0]

OK, playing devils advocate here BTW, I'm not saying that there is a right or wrong answer, if your fee was £200, how much would you be happy for the agent to charge ? £220, £250, £300 ?

[disco4hire 1]

 

So someone calls you to do a disco, and says the fee is £200. You take the booking, and find out that the person who gave you the work charged £450.

 

Do you do anything about it ?

 

There's nothing you can do about it without risking loosing the gig, so it's up to you, if the thought of someone making money easier than you, bothers you, turn it down and tell them the reason. You may find they up their offer, on the other hand they may find someone else to take it on, and there would be a lot of willing DJs available. It's a buyers market, and will remain so for the foseeable future.

 

I would resent a third party taking any of my fee, but for someone to take such a huge amount would be galling.

 

Would this still apply if the agents marketing skills enabled you to make more money than you could for yourself? ie your average fee = £150, agent pays you £200 a gig you're £50 up, the fact he made £250 is irrelevant

 

[UKHero 0]

OK, playing devils advocate here BTW, I'm not saying that there is a right or wrong answer, if your fee was £200, how much would you be happy for the agent to charge ? £220, £250, £300 ?

 

depends on the agent....

 

One agent I worked for I would not be happy with him taking a penny another I have worked for I dont mind what his mark up is. Why?

 

Well the first agent did diddly squat for his fee other than take a phone call then call you. And no he did not advertise or promote infact his agency has crumbled away now.

 

The other agent does the lot contracts maps to the venue liasing with the DJ and the client etc etc and pays in advance of the gig.

 

 

I dont mind if some one makes a buck ontop of my requested fee but at the higher figures I think the customer should know they are only getting a £200 DJ for their £450 pound... The DJ might be happy but would your client.

 

 

Nik

 

[Kingy 0]

Possibly.

 

But I think that the difference between £200 and £450 is a bit excessive, personally.

[Dukesy 0]

I personally believe that you have to stop, think and plan out your business, work out your reality-check bills / honestly overheads to be able to formulate a genuine fee which of course you'll be happy with, maybe with a little mark up so you can turn a profit!

 

By basic example, if you've worked out you need to earn minimum £500 a month to cover everything, you have a choice. You could work 1 x gig at £500 which would be little wear and tear on the vehicle, etc. 2 x gigs at £250 with a bit more wear and tear. 5 x gigs at £100 with maybe even more wear and tear, unless you have a residency! Maybe you choose towork 10 x gigs at £50???

 

I have to smile. smile icon

When I do have the opportunity to read other trade forums, I don't see debates or discussions about business fee's! Perhaps it's just a 'mobile DJ' thing!!!

 

Always remember - what's in it for you?

[YourBigEvent 0]

OK, so you are not happy at the agent make £200 on a £400 gig, the agent 'makes' 50% of the total fee.

 

So you stay at home and decide to buy a pizza instead.

 

 

The pizza costs you £15, are you then happy that the pizza you have just paid £15 for, only cost under £7.50 to make (50% of the total fee) ?

[Dukesy 0]

Ok - you pay to advertise on a mobile DJ directory and all the enquiries that you receive want a cheap as chips service for less than half your fee you've worked out you actually need per gig.??? :pizza:

[disco4hire 1]

The pizza costs you £15, are you then happy that the pizza you have just paid £15 for, only cost under £7.50 to make (50% of the total fee) ?

 

Better still buy a bottle of water to drink with it and add a '0 to the end of the 50%'

[YourBigEvent 0]

Correct, one rule for one....

 

Say the agent, who agrees to pay you £200 per gig, for any gig, on any day, gives you 2 gigs a week on average, and fully books you in December. You get £24,000 pa from the agent.

 

Now do you worry he has also made £24k, or are happy not to have to do a 9 to 5 job ?

[Bouncy Dancefloor 0]

providing i get my money, im not too bothered

 

unless there was a reason why the fee was so high, that the agent isnt making you aware of (longer hours, bigger show, uplighting etc)

[Dukesy 0]

Correct, one rule for one....

 

Say the agent, who agrees to pay you £200 per gig, for any gig, on any day, gives you 2 gigs a week on average, and fully books you in December. You get £24,000 pa from the agent.

 

Now do you worry he has also made £24k, or are happy not to have to do a 9 to 5 job ?

 

Full time work is classed as working 35 or more hours a week, so I'd be worried that I only had 2 gigs a week from the agent...unless of course they were 19 hours of work per day for £200. :pizza: :lol2:

[McCardle 1]

If the agent is getting a much higher price for a gig then clearly he is taking more time and effort in marketing himself. Maybe he deserves that commission in return for doing the work / advertising / marketing that I can't be bothered to do myself.

 

I would be more interested in actually working towards obtaining the same figure then i wouldn't have to rely on other people and spend less time moaning about it after the event.

 

Then again there are those willing to work for the agreed £200 in return for minimal effort marketing and selling themselves and so they should be happy to pay the £250 difference for somebody else to be putting in the hours in the many business aspects which go beyond playing music.

 

Hyperthetical answer to a hyperthetical question

Edited April 8, 2009 by McCardle

[YourBigEvent 0]

I really don't get this.

 

A mechanic works for a main dealer, he is working for £30 per hour, the main dealer charges £120 per hour (4 x times what the mechanic get paid)

 

Who is on the wrong now ?

[deejaymitch 0]

If the agent is getting a much higher price for a gig then clearly he is taking more time and effort in marketing himself.

 

Huge assumption #1

 

Then again there are those willing to work for the agreed £200 in return for minimal effort marketing and selling themselves

 

Huge assumption #2

[McCardle 1]

assumption - hyperthetical situation = same thing surely?

 

 

Huge assumption #1

 

Huge assumption #2

 

Huge post

 

 

1) So why do YOU feel that agents exist and why do you think DJ's / bands use them?. Surely if the DJ is capable of making his own phone ring with bookings then he / she won't even be considering an agent and so paying commission to others in order to FIND them work. By working for an agent is this not paying somebody a financial reward to get something (i.e work) that you haven't been able to get for yourself and becoming better off yourself as a result of somebody elses business efforts and accumen? which IMO actually validates my original point. But since you think that this is assumption on my part, then you don't agree with this principle, so can I ask, how do you see the role of an agent?

 

2) In this situation, why do you think that the agent obviously had work to give out and why this Dj was at a loose end. How would you explain how the agent had work and the DJ didn't

 

3) What do you think is making this agents phone ring with bookings, if its not marketing and promotion?. In this hyperthetical situation the agents phone has rung at least once more than our DJ's! because he's the one with the booking tongue out icon

 

4) Why do you think the client found the agent first and not the DJ?, if the DJ's marketing is as good as the agents then the client would have probably have been in touch directly. However If the DJ's marketing presence and efforts were BETTER than the agents, the agents phone wouldn't even have rang smile icon

 

5) Do you not think that agents are entitled to make a comfortable and profitable living from what they do, by getting people additional work as a result of their business efforts, or is making a profit purely reserved for Dj's

Edited April 8, 2009 by McCardle

[disco4hire 1]

I really don't get this.

 

A mechanic works for a main dealer, he is working for £30 per hour, the main dealer charges £120 per hour (4 x times what the mechanic get paid)

 

Who is on the wrong now ?

 

A more realistic figure would be circa £15 an hour, many get paid MUCH less

 

[YourBigEvent 0]

So does that make the main dealer a shark as well as the agent who makes £x for you ?

[disco4hire 1]

So does that make the main dealer a shark as well as the agent who makes £x for you ?

 

Not at all, I'm a believer in a free market, if the dealer was making huge profits there would be an influx of competition and prices would fall until it was no longer profitable and dealers were forced from the market thus restoring equilibrium.

Likewise the DJ market is currently in a position of oversupply and the prices are being driven down in the lower end of the market. There are still good gigs available to people who market themselves well and offer a quality product. IMO the prices aren't as susceptible at top end of the market but customers are becoming more selective has they have more suppliers to choose from.

While on the subject of marketing oneself, and not targeting anyone in particular, I've seen many DJ web sites that are a positive liability to the owner, some look as if they have been designed to scare the client away, they're so bad, and they wonder why the good gigs don't come their way

Edited April 8, 2009 by disco4hire

[Andy Dunn 0]

I don't think anyone is saying that the agent shouldn't get a return from you for providing the work, but surely if he is selling you out at say £800 then he obviously rates you as good enough to charge this fee to the client.

So why then should he take a say 50% fee off of this?

Does that mean he only rates you as a £400 D.J.?

If he is quite happy taking a 15-20% comission rate normally then why should this change on higher paying jobs,when this type of thing normally crops up?

I also know of one company who are now gone that used to charge the client extra for the D.J. to have a 6m x 3m starcloth backdrop even though that was part of the guys standard show!

Needless to say the D.J. didn't know about this and was less than pleased when he found out.

 

On that job he got £400 as I recall.

The agent however charged the client £650 for the disco plus another £150 for the starcloth.......................taking the mick me thinks !!!

[UKHero 0]

But the main point is as I say above if the client pays for a £450 Disco and gets a £200 pound disco is this fair on the client and more important than the DJ finding this out what happens if the client finds this out.

 

As for the main dealer they spend a lot of time money and effort in promoting themselves they provide the workshops the tools and some times the on going training for the mechanics, all the mechanic has to do is turn up to work. No book keeping or accounts or tax man to pay just his money in the bank at the end of the Week or month. How many agents do this for their entertainers. How many agents provide PLI or have the equipment supplied or tested for the DJ?

 

 

 

Nik