Pioneer wins another award....2004

[Dukesy 0]

MEDIA RELEASE:

DJZONE NETWORK, WEB’S LARGEST DESTINATION FOR DISC JOCKEYS

ANNOUNCES 2004 “CRYSTAL DISC” AWARDS

FOR INNOVATIONS IN SOUND & LIGHTING

 

TWIN FALLS, ID - January 10, 2004

 

DJzone.com, the Web’s largest information network for disc jockeys, today announced the recipients of their 2004 Crystal Disc Awards. The awards are given annually to sound and lighting manufacturers whose products exhibit superior technical innovation for the mobile and club disc jockey industries.

 

DJzone’s 2004 Crystal Disc for excellence in the category of Nightclub DJ Product was awarded to the Pro Audio Group of Pioneer Electronics (USA) Inc. for their DVJ-X1 digital audio and video turntable.

The unit allows digital DJs to manipulate DVD visuals in exactly the same way as they would music enabling real-time digital video scratches, loops and instant cues, while the video and audio streams always stay in perfect sync, even when they’re being reversed and pitched.

 

“With the explosion of DVD music videos in nightclub entertainment, Pioneer has made it possible for a DJ to do true beatmixing and remixing without sacrificing the quality of either the picture or sound,” said Sid Vanderpool, president of the DJzone Network. “Pioneer’s usual suite of built-in digital tools including their Master Tempo feature which changes speed without changing pitch, makes the DVJ-XI truly the next generation in digital DJ gear.”

 

This is Pioneer’s second consecutive year to receive the DJzone Crystal Disc; in 2003 they were recognized for their CDJ1000 CD Player.

Disc jockey industry leaders and nearly 60,000 registered members of the DJzone network of websites make nominations for DJzone.com’s annual Crystal Disc.

 

[chrismk 0]

Interesting to read, obviously they hav'nt yet had time to do a reliabilty test.

As for the company awarding this sort of rating I think is minor and premature,

if it was a load of various DJs mmm, well I might agree, because a web site awards a product with its 'Crystal' perspex trophy doesnt mean its good.

 

I like Pioneer but just recently as most would have read there ARE problems with

Pioneer and now they try and hide problems by deleting posts of complaints on the

internet, I think and judging by what people who 'actually' use products that we, the buying public take note of such said forums and not some plastic award.

 

Good example is I bought a Marantz CD 6000 OSE CD player (Hi Fi) and its was

awarded five stars in various paper magazines, and it rubbish.period

but I bought 2 Sony CDP XE570 Cd players for basic music editing and they are

the best I've had for years, goes to show 5 Stars = disaster

 

 

 

 

[ChrisPointon 0]

So who exactly are you advertising Dan. Pioneer or DJ-zone http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif .

 

I'm just waiting for the verbal onslaught from Gary to ensue.

 

 

Don't the TVDJA give out awards too?. Maybe DJU could run for the best Kept Forum award 2004 http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif - especially with all of the "weeding" that Karen does around here. I could just make use of a TVDJA Pyrex dish set http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/071.gif

[Gary 0]

I thought that the awards for the CDJ~1000mk2, and the (cost of a small family car) DVD Deck were awards for green/ecology...

 

Both the mentioned units use mostly the same components that the half~a~decade old CDJ~1000mk1 used. Pioneer have managed to recycle parts that would otherwise have been unsold and unwanted. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[ChrisPointon 0]

^^^It's good to hear the membership speaking out on Green issues^^^

[Dukesy 0]

QUOTE (Chris_Pointon @ Jan 26 2004, 10:54 AM)

So who exactly are you advertising Dan. Pioneer or DJ-zone  http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif .

Neither!

http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/headphone.gif

 

BTW - The current DVJ-X1 digital audio and video turntable apparently has 'recycled' parts, and no doubt, so will the X2!

 

Whatever make of (CD) product you buy or use, be it for home listening or DJ'ing, such as a Meridian, Technics, Sharp, Citronic, Sony, Denon, Soundlab, Kam or Pioneer, etc, - as long as you are happy, does it matter what you use?

 

I've always invested in what ultimately worked for my needs. For CD mixing, I'm happy with the Pioneer, yes. But it's not about the name. I always used to like Sony gear until someone in the family purchased the then hyped Sony CDP-101. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/whistling.gif

Edited January 26, 2004 by discodirect

[DENON 0]

Award for an "unreleased" or “unproven” product??

 

Sounds like my friend over at DJZONE got a free steak dinner from Pioneer. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/nono.gif

[Melody_Roadshow 0]

http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/huh.gif

Didn't know such a product was available - video beat mixing - pretty cool i reckon

 

Any one know how much they are?

[ChrisPointon 0]

^^^Well Said that man^^^ http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/smile.gif

 

Now that you've finally started posting http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/smile.gif , why are your products 25% cheaper in the U.S than the UK for exactly the same product?, we have members here who have previously posted that it is actually cheaper to fly to the US for the weekend, and buy Denon Product than to buy it here http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/scared.gif. Denon supporters are quick to slag off other competitors product based on how overpriced it is, however I don't see how that is justified, when Denon Products are often in exactly the same price bracket and UK Buyers are, lets face it, getting a raw deal with regard to price.

 

I agree with C.S - in that in some cases Denon Reps are arrogant, aloof, individuals with no personality and a holier than thou attitude.

 

I've owned Denon products in the past, and actually found that two $60 domestic unbranded Hi-Fi type CD Players outlasted both Denon units http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/scared.gif , in fact both the old original 2000 and a more recent 1800F spent more time on the repair bench than actually out on the road. Was reliability issues the reason why three models - the 1800, 2100 and 2600 were all very quick to superceed each other?.

[Gary 0]

The difference with a Pioneer cd-deck being priced at £800, and other makes priced at £800, is that the other makes have got enough features to justify the price tag.

 

Its possible that such profiteering in Pioneers game plan has stirred up more of a hornets nest in the US, than here in the UK. The US have had several huge "cashback"($200 back with cd~decks) and price slashes,(DMP555 dropped to less than half its former price). The UK saw none of these more realistic.

 

 

 

As for that price tag..eg US prices versus UK prices, I think most of the Electronics customers suffer the same rip off across the electronics marketplace, eg.. take a look at the uk price, swap the £ for a $ and you're pretty close to the right price, without even reaching for a currency convertor. Thats true enough on anything from kitchen appliances and PCs, right the way upto home cinema/theater and DJ gear.

 

As previously covered the few bad experiences that people have had with Denon club cd~decks in the past, have been exactly that...in the past, normally on the 2000 series which are coming up for 8~10 years old now. Sure, no ones saying that the current Denon models will never, ever, go wrong, or be Dead On Arrival, no manufacturer can guarantee that... however a Denon can get kicked and dropped by a courier, just as much as any other make. No manufacturer can promise zero returns.

 

 

However, with user~replaceable cd~drives, and user upgradable free software enhancements, I think that Denon do more toward keeping their units (and the owners of those units) on~the~road, than other manufacturers.

[Gary 0]

As for the "Crystal disc?" awards...

 

Whilst I think that a DVD player with decent pitch control and Frame by frame cueing is well overdue, I cant help feeling that the award was voted for "by concept"

rather than a specific device. Especially as the pioneer unit was had only been glimpsed at a dj trade fair or two, with no DJs actually owning or even getting "hands on" with the $2500 (each) player in question.

[C.S 0]

I admit that it is several years since i have tried a Denon and they may well have improved,they may even be best BUT the experiences i had with denons up through the 90s were so seriously traumatic that i would rather pay double the price for something else.Its kind of like if as a child you burn yourself on a candle you just dont do it again. Denon for me as a company treated me so badly that when an American representitive for denons who has been registered on this forum for quite a while makes the huge effort to finaly post,and then uses it to slag off a competitor instead of being constructive and positive ,then i am sorry it just tells me that denons attitude is a world wide problem and I SEE RED.

I have the greatest respect for you Gary and i read your reviews and see that you are a real pro who knows what hes up to,its just a shame that where denon is concerned you are so very obviously an exception to the rule.

[ChrisPointon 0]

Well, I take great enjoyment from reading Gary's posts and he contributes a hell of a lot to this forum, both as a D.J and an excellent Moderator and we can certainly do with more members like him. However DENON is a subject where we both respect each others right to disagree http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/smile.gif .

 

On the Denon representatives post, I would like to Welcome DENON here to DJU, certainly we do need MORE input from the manufacturers and those associated with D.J'ing, but I feel that DENON's registration last July and their re-appearance and 3 posts shortly after a review of a new Denon product which is just about to be launched is a little bit too contrived and convenient http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif .

 

Probably, once the release has been made and the hue and cry has died down and the 1500 becomes just another Denon product, DENON will revert back to his silence. I hope not, and that he / they'll chose to continue the association with DJU, but I think I already know the answer to this one http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/nono.gif .

[Gary 0]

I too hope that "Denon" (his real name; Silvio) will lots too.

 

As for the gap between registration and posting, I originally enticed "Denon" to register when we (the forum) were chatting in healthy, worthwhile numbers in a DJU chatroom all those months ago. Silvio/Denon agreed to be participate in a few chatroom sessions too, but our chatroom numbers (and chatroom) went into hibernation.

 

As well as being high up at Denon in "New joysey" Silvio is also a working DJ, which is probably how many of the DJ friendly features appeared on Denons more recent CD~decks.

 

Once again, if anyone hasnt tried out a *current* Denon cd~deck, due to historic reasons, then just be open~minded to the idea that all the models have evolved.

[Dukesy 0]

I had a look at some Denon machines recently - that revolving thingy one.

Anyway, it was ok in my books.

 

I would even goe as far as saying that I had an open mind at the time!!!

 

But going off topic - slightly, if I was going to go back to T/T decks, there would only be one choice, although I know the quality of other decks out now are very good. Why - proven durability.

 

I asked a DJ shop owner the other day what he thought was the 'best or better' CD player he sold.

 

He mentioned a number of players makes before he got to the £-stretching 'big boys'.

 

Overall, he sold more Pioneer (sorry I mean Pioneer-dontgetnochangeleftover-neer) than Denon's, due to 2 basic facts.

 

1. The customer wanted a Pioneer - nothing else would change their mind because the 'buyer' had a perception of the product - even if suggested a demo of other products.

2. He was happy to sell the Pioneer but pointed out that he made little profit on them.

 

But he did not slate Denon or Pioneer but pointed out he was not a DJ - just a businessman.

 

Like other things in life, if the buyer is going to enter a shop with a fixed frame of mind and perception of a product, it will be very hard to change the opinion, be it a Nikon Camera vs a Canon, a Porshe vs a Ferrari, etc. It can depend on many variables - like track record, marketing, word of mouth, industry feedback, promotions, hands on quality, etc, etc, etc. But money will not be the overall 'winner' on a products purchase - only another variable.

 

Now the Technics new player might give the 'industry standard marketed products' a run for their money due to its 'feel' rather than fx and gadgets.

We shall see!

 

Interesting point about Technics - they set a standard for others to follow with their SLP-1000, SLP-1200 & SLP-1300 CD players!

 

 

[Gary 0]

QUOTE (discodirect @ Feb 16 2004, 08:32 PM)

I had a look at some Denon machines recently - that revolving thingy one. Anyway, it was ok in my books. he sold more Pioneer (sorry I mean Pioneer-dontgetnochangeleftover-neer) than Denon's, due to 2 basic facts. 1. The customer wanted a Pioneer - nothing else would change their mind because the 'buyer' had a perception of the product - even if suggested a demo of other products. 2. He was happy to sell the Pioneer but pointed out that he made little profit on them.

As for point # 1, yes...Pioneer have had a few years headstart in the limelight (advertising and product placement) over Denon. Its changing, slowly.

 

Indeed theres probably some young DJ's that saw the Pioneer CD-decks in a magazine 4 years ago and is still saving up for them, not looking at any brochures except his/her well-thumbed, fading, learnt off-by-heart, word perfect, CDJ one.

 

I've critisized Denons UK distributors (By phone and face to face, for ONE thing - they like the deep, dark mysterious adverts...you know...big black A4 magazine page, Denon logo in the middle, not much else...where instead...the adverts should be doing all the usual selling eg: Name the feature, explain the DJ benefit of the feature, give an example.

 

EG: I saw an advert the other day in a magazine...

 

QUOTE

Denon DN-S5000 CD-deck with Alpha track and Hot Disc

 

 

http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/huh.gif http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/excl.gif

 

 

OK....most regular members on here will know what Alpha track is, and some even what Hot Disc is, but the same space of advert would have got much more interest if it read something like.

 

 

QUOTE

Denon DN-S5000 CD-deck with Alpha track which allows you to mix two track from the same CD, at different pitches, into two different channels on your mixer, simultaneously.....and Hot-disc, which allows you to mix from one CD to another, while the track from the first CD is still playing....why buy two cd-decks, when you only need one?

 

Many DJ's in the market for top-end CD-decks, just dont know about Denon CD-decks yet, or rather, dont know about all the features. At PLASA last year, there were dozens and dozens of gob-smacked faces when just the above two features were demonstrated. Luckily though, the advertising is getting better, word is getting around, and indeed, so are the Denon cd-decks.

 

 

As for your second point... I know that theres little profit margin on Pioneer gear for the dealer, distributer...which is crazy when you take into account the huge $200 cash backs Pioneer were offering in the states recently on CDJ's, and also the half-price pummet of Pioneer's only MP3 compatible CD-deck, the DMP-555....and you can be sure that Pioneer were'nt loosing out even with the cashback etc... I dont know the exact details but I have been told that Pioneer dealers get their "reward" in shifting -quantity- of Pioneer gear....eg: Sell 10 CDJ's during the next calendar month and we'll give you £Xx commission..or..sell 100 CDJ's and we'll send you to Ibiza for a week... This "reward" scheme, in my opinion is wrong (but you'll never escape it, its rife in the Cellphone industry too, though not as bad as it used to be in the early 90's). Such schemes make it very tempting for some (not Chris) dealers/distributers to persistantly sway customers away from their choosen product, onto the dealers "flavour of the month".

 

 

And yes, as for your choice of turntables...I take it you meant Technics. I agree totally, they're the best (even with the little pitch control hiccup on the quickly superceded MKIII's). However, at this time, the winter years of vinyls life, if both my Technics went bang! (or walkies) I'd just buy 1 x Numark TT200, since my Technics are more or less retired now.

Edited February 16, 2004 by Gary

[C.S 0]

QUOTE

Once again, if anyone hasnt tried out a *current* Denon cd~deck, due to historic reasons, then just be open~minded to the idea that all the models have evolved

 

Fair enough but has their staff\service attitude evolved?

I am willing to try denon but not from a Scandinavian supplier.Would also like to add that i had never heard of the alpha function or the hot disc one until 5 minutes ago and it sounds great,but again i am a working dj who knows probably 100s of djs and has 12 who work for him and i havent seen anything here about these players.I still see a bloody pitch with plus minus buttons which made my pioneer cdj players look like nasa produced space technology

Edited February 16, 2004 by C.S

[ChrisPointon 0]

Nobody has ever offered me a holiday in Ibiza for shifting stuff http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/scared.gif

[C.S 0]

You can have a holiday here for nothing,just your travel and spendin money!

[Gary 0]

QUOTE (C.S @ Feb 16 2004, 09:22 PM)

QUOTE Once again, if anyone hasnt tried out a *current* Denon cd~deck, due to historic reasons, then just be open~minded to the idea that all the models have evolved   Fair enough but has their staff\service attitude evolved? I am willing to try denon but not from a Scandinavian supplier. Chris! http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/thumbup.gif Thats all that any manufacturer can ask for...a fair chance with their current offerings, without a certain scandinavian supplier tainting the proceedings. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/sad.gif     Chris...I know we're hundred of miles away from each other, but as a genuine offer...I'll lend you one of my own DN-S5000 CD-decks for a month if you can work out some way of getting it there and back safely.   (and no http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/whistling.gif , I cant make this a general offering to all menbers...I'm just meeting Chris "half way" as it were (but not in geographic terms..I havent got any snow-shoes).

[C.S 0]

Thanx for the kind offer Gary but its not neccessary, i am coming home to the uk at the end of March so i shall try and find a dealer who stocks denons in Cornwall or Plymouth and go along and check em out. (If you know of any through your contacts then please pm me!) Thanx again.PS I cant believe i am doing this cos i always thought i was stubborn and unswayable! I hope your mate in the us is not offended and i hope that he will participate on the forum in the future.Regards

[Gary 0]

Hmm wheres half-way between Cornwall and where I am...?

 

We'll if you're planning on heading sort of Hampshire/Wiltshire direction (North Easterly of Cornwall, - hang on...everywhere is north-east of Cornwall - Doh!), I'll give you a demo of the DN-S5000... http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/headphone.gif

Edited February 16, 2004 by Gary

[DENON 0]

Hey gang, sorry for my sporadic postings.

I’ve been traveling heavily lately, but I try my best to contribute to the 10 forms that I’m involved with.

 

I think Gary and I share the same views and opinions regarding Denon DJ in general.

Yes, our products have evolved immensely since 1991 thanks to the input from our user group. No one really knew the conditions and abuse our players would be faced with in the early days since this whole DJ CD concept was uncharted.

 

Upon every new generation of products, we add something new to the table that benefits YOU the end user such as;

 

*Removable drives for zero downtime (just like a spare tire in your trunk)

*Upgradeable software to extend the useful life by adding new features and make tweaks based on your input without the unit ever leaving your hands.

*World First features such as, Alpha Track, Hot Disc, Mirror Mix, Full MP3 Support and Spinning Platters

 

We listen, we learn, we create.

All of this has made Denon a better company today.

Edited February 21, 2004 by DENON

[adenondj 0]

i love my denon s5000 and look forward to buying another, my sheds getting abit full of s5000 boxes now http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/fear.gif