Yet more Monopolising Venues

[ChrisPointon 0]

Hi Chris, I'm in agreement with you to a point.

 

However in Some hotels the policy is to make as much money as possible and pay the purveyors of said service peanuts....and we all know that when fed peanuts all you get is monkeys.

 

I'm not accusing the venue in question of doing this because I don't have all of the facts.....yet http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/tongue.gif . However I have experienced certain venues where they think nothing of charging top dollar for the entertainment as part of a package and then employ the cheapest around in order to maximise profits. Sadly as Spinner and others quite rightly say, that happens far too often.

 

Indeed many years ago, I personally was once questioned by the inland revenue in relation to irregularities in book keeping. It transpired that a certain landlord of a public house had been paying me £xx and then pocketing £60 extra for himself but making it look like I was charging the extra £60 in his books - not a bad little fiddle!. Another bloody good reason for all Dj's to keep their own signed receipts for this type of work, because quite bluntly you cannot trust anybody. I learned the expensive way through no fault of my own, please don't make the same mistake.

 

I have no problem with people making money, provided that they are honest and ethical in their approach towards the client. To go back to my original post and examine the reasons given by the hotel to the client for refusing to allow them to use their own DJ. I'm sorry but I don't believe that a sound limiter is any reason to refuse to employ outside DJ's, one could even examine the reason why a sound limiter had to be fitted in the first place, assuming the resident Dj was a long term one http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/whistling.gif .

 

Secondly, no sound limiter is a gurantee of the professionalism of one Dj over an other, so I fail to see, other than a B/S excuse, how this has any bearing whatsoever on their refusual to the client, it just makes the entire situation less believeable.

 

The client was also forced into the situation by the venue. Despite several visits and discussions with the venue prior to booking it, there was never any mention made of their strict, non negotiable terms to booking only their resident DJ with the room. It was only AFTER the client had booked the venue and paid the deposit that they were told that they would have to cancel their original DJ - no exceptions.

 

Unfortunately, the client was in the situation where two deposits had been paid, and one of the services had to be cancelled. Since my deposit was a tenth of that charged by the venue, guess who was cancelled http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/042.gif .

 

I can fully understand and support venues, which refuse access to DJ's who don't have the relevant paperwork for insurance reasons, or other genuine reasons. However it was the underhand way in which this situation came about and I don't buy that any of the reasons given to this particular client (provided they are accurate) to be reasonable grounds!, unless anybody can explain how the existance of a sound limiter would be beneficial to the client.

 

Again, as I also pointed out on the original post, I can also appreciate the right of any venue to implement and maintain its own policies, however they should simply say that they only allow the use of the resident DJ because that is their preference, and this should be pointed out clearly to the client from the initial contact / information pack, so there can be no confusion (or as some may venture - trickery) involved.

[UKHero 0]

QUOTE (C.S @ Oct 11 2006, 07:56 PM)

I am going to do it again ,sorry but i have to so here goes.... If i owned a venue that catered to weddings etc then i would also insist on supplying a full package eg venue,bar ,food,waiters, bartenders,flowers AND dj \gear.Its good business sense because it means that the standard is high on all levels of service and the customer only has to deal with ONE supplier. (Ask Ads because i know whatever people ask him to suply then he will never say "no" no matter what they need). In my venue i would have gear that suited the locality and i would have a dj who is smart ,reliable and good at his job. Just imagine i supply everything except the dj at somebodies wedding and the guy who the bride has hired is dreadful and has bad gear ,in short the disco ruins all the other good things i have supplied during the day. The word of mouth then goes something like this " i was at john and julies wedding reception last week at the "something hotel" and it was dreadful ,we really didnt enjoy ourselves at all " Get my drift ? People are not going to remember the djs name. So is a hotel owner taking away our business or is he just making sure his is of the standard he wants ? Shouldnt we djs be trying to sell our product to these people ? I find it strange that we are looking at these business men in a negative way ,after all if you had invested large sums of money in a hotel, would you be happy to have people that you have no knowledge of work and thereby represent you ? The customer is not being forced to book said venue and they can take their business elsewhere.

Sorry totally disagree with all you say here... I have worked many hotels.. They tell the punters your a res DJ, even put it on there literatur but infact they just contact the local agent of there choice and dont know who there getting untill you arrive... This is wrong...

 

 

If a bride and Groom book a DJ its up to them to make sure s/he is the person for the job.... The quality of there equipment etc is only part of it.... I have done many gigs over the years for friends and relatives.. They know me, I may not be the best DJ on the block but being part of the family and knowing there background helps.

 

 

I would have cancelled the hotel and booked else where even a local pubs function room.... Its my big day and I would not be dictated to... I am the customer and the old saying applies..... The Customer Is Always Right

 

 

Nik

 

[UKHero 0]

Just a point Chris I wonder if they signed a contract with the Hotel involved and if so does it state they must use our DJ... Or if not then surely the Hotle has no leg to stand on....

 

I bet all they got was a recipt for there deposit from the Hotel where we guys have to provide contracts makes you think wh o runs a more pro set up the DJ or the Hotel...

 

 

Nik

 

[brianmole 0]

Chris, is it worth you making an appointment with the venue's manager to discuss this? You may find they make an exception.

[ChrisPointon 0]

Nik,

 

They were only invited to sign the contract after the deposit had been paid to secure the date. It was when they arrived at the venue to sign, that they were dropped the bombshell. They could of course refused to sign, however they would have lost a very substantial deposit.

 

A strange way of operating indeed!. Nothing is mentioned of any resident DJ on their website either. Its not like it states "Our venue is available for hire for only £xxx including our resident DJ" or anything vaguely approaching the facts.

 

Still, I got a deposit out of it, so i'm not out of pocket.

 

I don't know the DJ, I have never seen him / her work, so not for me to make rash judgements - they may be entirely professional, or it may be a gamble in the russian roulette of who just happens to turn up on the night!.

 

However it is the entire principle of the manner in which the information (or lack of) was conveyed to the client by the venue which is up the debate here, hence why I made a point of highlighting it, as I don't doubt that similar (and worse) is happening all around the country.

[C.S 0]

QUOTE

ukhero ,Sorry totally disagree with all you say here

 

Glad you disagree with EVERYTHING i said

 

If i owned a venue that catered to weddings etc then i would also insist on supplying a full package eg venue,bar ,food,waiters, bartenders,flowers AND dj \gear.Its good business sense because it means that the standard is high on all levels of service and the customer only has to deal with ONE supplier. -

you dont know me so how can you disagree with what i would want to do with MY investment. I would only hire a dj of high standard and believe me my standards are high .

. In my venue i would have gear that suited the locality and i would have a dj who is smart ,reliable and good at his job. How can you disagree with what i would have at my own venue.

 

Just imagine i supply everything except the dj at somebodies wedding and the guy who the bride has hired is dreadful and has bad gear ,in short the disco ruins all the other good things i have supplied during the day. The word of mouth then goes something like this " i was at john and julies wedding reception last week at the "something hotel" and it was dreadful ,we really didnt enjoy ourselves at all " Get my drift ? -can you deny that this doesnt happen.

People are not going to remember the djs name.

 

So is a hotel owner taking away our business or is he just making sure his is of the standard he wants ? Shouldnt we djs be trying to sell our product to these people ? - Do you disagree that he has this right and do you disagree that we djs should be targetting these people as prospective customers ?

 

I find it strange that we are looking at these business men in a negative way ,after all if you had invested large sums of money in a hotel, would you be happy to have people that you have no knowledge of work and thereby represent you ? The customer is not being forced to book said venue and they can take their business elsewhere

Lastly is the customer always right ? in the dj world there is someone at every gig who thinks you did a bad job , are they always right ?

I have worked over the past 30 years for Ritz,Hyatt,Best western, Sheraton,Hilton,Radisson and numerous other hotels in Cornwall and abroad and always have felt i have been fairly paid

 

Chris i understand that some venue owners are in it for a quick dirty profit but surely not all of them ? In my experience yes they want to make a profit but not at any price.

Edited October 12, 2006 by C.S

[UKHero 0]

QUOTE (C.S @ Oct 12 2006, 08:29 AM)

QUOTE ukhero ,Sorry totally disagree with all you say here   Glad you disagree with EVERYTHING i said   If i owned a venue that catered to weddings etc then i would also insist on supplying a full package eg venue,bar ,food,waiters, bartenders,flowers AND dj \gear.Its good business sense because it means that the standard is high on all levels of service and the customer only has to deal with ONE supplier. - you dont know me so how can you disagree with what i would want to do with MY investment. I would only hire a dj of high standard and believe me my standards are high . . In my venue i would have gear that suited the locality and i would have a dj who is smart ,reliable and good at his job. How can you disagree with what i would have at my own venue.   Just imagine i supply everything except the dj at somebodies wedding and the guy who the bride has hired is dreadful and has bad gear ,in short the disco ruins all the other good things i have supplied during the day. The word of mouth then goes something like this " i was at john and julies wedding reception last week at the "something hotel" and it was dreadful ,we really didnt enjoy ourselves at all " Get my drift ? -can you deny that this doesnt happen. People are not going to remember the djs name.   So is a hotel owner taking away our business or is he just making sure his is of the standard he wants ? Shouldnt we djs be trying to sell our product to these people ? - Do you disagree that he has this right and do you disagree that we djs should be targetting these people as prospective customers ?   I find it strange that we are looking at these business men in a negative way ,after all if you had invested large sums of money in a hotel, would you be happy to have people that you have no knowledge of work and thereby represent you ? The customer is not being forced to book said venue and they can take their business elsewhere Lastly is the customer always right ? in the dj world there is someone at every gig who thinks you did a bad job , are they always right ?   Chris i understand that some venue owners are in it for a quick dirty profit but surely not all of them ? In my experience yes they want to make a profit but not at any price. Maybe i did not make myself clear I disagree with most of what you said in the defence of Hotels... How you or they run there business is nothing to do with me but when you post it on here you publish your ideas and oppinions... So giving others the chance to reply in favour or other wise..   A wedding is a very personal thing to each and every couple and I would not want to be tied into the whole thing by a Hotel owner who has decided that DJ a is Good and DJ b is not so good... (What qualification gives you this right)...   You can only base your ideas of good and bad on your likes and dislike's   I might want a DJ that can play say R & B all night or Rock music or yes even Cheese... I might want a specialist Dance music DJ...   Your Chosen flower arranger might not be to my taste...   Heck will you be telling my Wife to be what sort of dress to wear so it fits your decor...   You as the Hotel owner are a small part in a big event... It is sad that you might get slated if the whole day does not go to plan but hey thats life and hey thats also business...   I would think you would looses more clients than gain by having a closed shop as it were...   But they are your thoughts and these are mine and we both have the right to our oppinions..   And thinking about it YES I do still dissagree with everything you say.   Nik

[ChrisPointon 0]

QUOTE

So is a hotel owner taking away our business or is he just making sure his is of the standard he wants ? Shouldnt we djs be trying to sell our product to these people ?

 

Yes, we should but not at the expense of running at a loss, and what about the standards the client wants?, does this not come into the equation?. The problems begin when the standards expected by a given venue, may be far lower than those of the client, and yes this happens. I've heard people complaining about the catering which a venue has done in house to not be upto scratch, so why couldn't this apply to their choice of DJ.

 

Doesn't this also take a "does he take sugar" attitude towards the client?, in removing their choice of whom works their function and effectively making the decision for them. After all, a DJ chosen by Venue Management criteria (which sadly may include a balance sheet) may not meet the clients requirements. A client may have seen a DJ work at a friends wedding, and be in no doubt of their suitability.

 

A prime example of how some venues operate in some areas can be found Here - here the venue clearly sets and dictates the price and not the other way around.

 

If you were engaging the services of a DJ, for your venue, and that you had personally have gone to the trouble of ensuring that the Dj was professional and experienced, I would hope that the payment reflected it. Certainly one nightclub I once worked at, only paid £120 a night to DJ's working 9.30 - 2, I refused because it was non negotiable and I could get far more on the Mobile Circuit.

 

However lets just assume the private function avenue is closed off, in favour of every venue opting to take the same route and only employ the services of a resident DJ in return for a cut / commission, then you get a monopoly, which makes it then even harder for the humble DJ to negotiate prices, unless the price was aleady equal or above what they are paid at the moment.

 

So the Mobile DJ formally earning say £250 / £300 a gig working in a different venue every night, is now refused the option to work in them anymore as each venue only employs a resident. So he has a choice, go out of business or agree to become a resident for the price which the venue has set.

 

I'm not against Venues making money from the skills of their employed resident DJ, providing that the DJ isn't working for a small percentage of what the Fagin Characters running the venue may be charging http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/smile.gif . I would also hope that this policy of resident only would be pointed out to the client right from the start, and that the DJ would be professional, reliable and not selected purely because he / she came in with the lowest quote.

 

 

So to take your point. You idea would work, provided all venue operators were as genuine as you, and paid their DJ's a living wage. However some venue operators are fresh out of Junior Management schools where they have been brainwashed by accountants and number crunchers and certainly don't have the hindsight of being in the DJ Industry themselves and so will still mosey on along believing that whilst there are still DJ's who will work for less than £100 a night, why should they pay out any more http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/533.gif

[Jimbo55 0]

I would be inclined to challenge ANY condition placed on me that I was not informed of after paying a deposit and before signing a contract. Trouble is most people back down when they are told about conditions of booking and contracts. It makes me so angry when I hear of people being 'shafted' in this way.

 

Provided it was made clear in the initial meetings the 'in house Dj' clause would stand, as an add on afterwards 'No Way'.

 

You can as a client when you book a hotel or other venue place contracts of your own that the owner/manager the venue must honor. Most people do this in verbal negotiations without realising this. If the manager or any other staff for that matter agree to do do something for you the estabishment can beheld to account.

 

Stand firm and be a pain in the backside.

 

CS.. I understand the problems when running your own business trying to ensure good reliable service for your customers. I think in this case it is down to poor/bad practice by the management. If it conditions were known before hand then I suspect the outcome may be different or it may have been that the in house DJ had been brought up in previous other client negotiations and the hotel failed to secure the booking!!.

 

PS my wife runs for cover when I complain http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/rolleyes.gif

 

Jimbo

[UKHero 0]

QUOTE (Chris_Pointon @ Oct 12 2006, 08:55 AM)

QUOTE So is a hotel owner taking away our business or is he just making sure his is of the standard he wants ? Shouldnt we djs be trying to sell our product to these people ?   Yes, we should but not at the expense of running at a loss, and what about the standards the client wants?, does this not come into the equation?. The problems begin when the standards expected by a given venue, may be far lower than those of the client, and yes this happens. I've heard people complaining about the catering which a venue has done in house to not be upto scratch, so why couldn't this apply to their choice of DJ.   Doesn't this also take a "does he take sugar" attitude towards the client?, in removing their choice of whom works their function and effectively making the decision for them. After all, a DJ chosen by Venue Management criteria (which sadly may include a balance sheet) may not meet the clients requirements. A client may have seen a DJ work at a friends wedding, and be in no doubt of their suitability.   A prime example of how some venues operate in some areas can be found Here - here the venue clearly sets and dictates the price and not the other way around.   If you were engaging the services of a DJ, for your venue, and that you had personally have gone to the trouble of ensuring that the Dj was professional and experienced, I would hope that the payment reflected it. Certainly one nightclub I once worked at, only paid £120 a night to DJ's working 9.30 - 2, I refused because it was non negotiable and I could get far more on the Mobile Circuit.   However lets just assume the private function avenue is closed off, in favour of every venue opting to take the same route and only employ the services of a resident DJ in return for a cut / commission, then you get a monopoly, which makes it then even harder for the humble DJ to negotiate prices, unless the price was aleady equal or above what they are paid at the moment.   So the Mobile DJ formally earning say £250 / £300 a gig working in a different venue every night, is now refused the option to work in them anymore as each venue only employs a resident. So he has a choice, go out of business or agree to become a resident for the price which the venue has set.   I'm not against Venues making money from the skills of their employed resident DJ, providing that the DJ isn't working for a small percentage of what the Fagin Characters running the venue may be charging http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/smile.gif . I would also hope that this policy of resident only would be pointed out to the client right from the start, and that the DJ would be professional, reliable and not selected purely because he / she came in with the lowest quote.     So to take your point. You idea would work, provided all venue operators were as genuine as you, and paid their DJ's a living wage. However some venue operators are fresh out of Junior Management schools where they have been brainwashed by accountants and number crunchers and certainly don't have the hindsight of being in the DJ Industry themselves and so will still mosey on along believing that whilst there are still DJ's who will work for less than £100 a night, why should they pay out any more http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/533.gif Exactly what I wanted to say but much better put Chris Thanks     Nik

[C.S 0]

QUOTE

uk hero Hotel owner who has decided that DJ a is Good and DJ b is not so good... (What qualification gives you this right)...

No qualifications are needed to be a dj so no qualifications are needed to find the one that fits my venue!

 

 

 

 

 

QUOTE

ukhero YES I do still dissagree with everything you say.

 

Just about sums it up really doesnt it http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/533.gif err was that EVERYTHING i said or MOST of everything i said?

 

QUOTE

chrispy So to take your point. You idea would work, provided all venue operators were as genuine as you, and paid their DJ's a living wage. However some venue operators are fresh out of Junior Management schools where they have been brainwashed by accountants and number crunchers and certainly don't have the hindsight of being in the DJ Industry themselves and so will still mosey on along believing that whilst there are still DJ's who will work for less than £100 a night, why should they pay out any more

And therein lies part of the problem ,djs who under price ! If djs are willing to work for a pittance can you blame someone for hiring them ,especialy if the dj is good and is only doing it for the love of djing and not as a job .

 

 

Lastly as an event manager i would put together a package that suited a certain kind of wedding that would function at my venue ,so it would be a take it or leave it option but of course with all the cards on the table from day one.

Edited October 12, 2006 by C.S

[Jimbo55 0]

QUOTE

with all the cards on the table from day one

 

No doubt on etheir side and everyone understands the conditions and limitations

 

Jimbo

 

 

[ChrisPointon 0]

The good news is that the Musicians Union have now been sent all of the information i've gathered, and have taken the matter seriously enough to forward me a legal pack for me to fill in so they can persue the matter on my behalf. I'll let you know how I get on.

[Paul Smith 0]

QUOTE (Chris_Pointon @ Oct 12 2006, 05:43 PM)

The good news is that the Musicians Union have now been sent all of the information i've gathered, and have taken the matter seriously enough to forward me a legal pack for me to fill in so they can persue the matter on my behalf. I'll let you know how I get on.

http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/goodjob.gif even a letter from them to the hotel may be enough to make them examine their practices http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/scared.gif

[UKHero 0]

QUOTE (C.S @ Oct 12 2006, 02:51 PM)

QUOTE uk hero Hotel owner who has decided that DJ a is Good and DJ b is not so good... (What qualification gives you this right)... No qualifications are needed to be a dj so no qualifications are needed to find the one that fits my venue!           QUOTE ukhero YES I do still dissagree with everything you say.   Just about sums it up really doesnt it http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/533.gif err was that EVERYTHING i said or MOST of everything i said?   QUOTE chrispy So to take your point. You idea would work, provided all venue operators were as genuine as you, and paid their DJ's a living wage. However some venue operators are fresh out of Junior Management schools where they have been brainwashed by accountants and number crunchers and certainly don't have the hindsight of being in the DJ Industry themselves and so will still mosey on along believing that whilst there are still DJ's who will work for less than £100 a night, why should they pay out any more  And therein lies part of the problem ,djs who under price ! If djs are willing to work for a pittance can you blame someone for hiring them ,especialy if the dj is good and is only doing it for the love of djing and not as a job .     Lastly as an event manager i would put together a package that suited a certain kind of wedding that would function at my venue ,so it would be a take it or leave it option but of course with all the cards on the table from day one. Yes Everything and we can all be creative with selected quotes...   Nik

[C.S 0]

Sorry really dont know what you are talking about with that comment.

The last part of my post that you put up as a quote was a statement from Chris p and a comment from me, there is nothing quoted that you havent said earlier on the thread. I think it is best we agree to disagree because to be honest you and I seem to be in two completely different worlds and certainly of different opinions .

I hope i have provoked some thought with my comments and that we can see it from the venue\hotel owners side aswell as the djs side.We have a responsibility for our own image and its all too easy to sit back and blame others for how people look at us, i see a few comments on this thread treating venue owners in exactly the same way ! Would also like to add that i never have owned or managed the type of venue discussed and with that i withdraw from the thread.

Edited October 12, 2006 by C.S

[PEDJ 0]

QUOTE (Chris_Pointon @ Oct 12 2006, 05:43 PM)

The good news is that the Musicians Union have now been sent all of the information i\'ve gathered, and have taken the matter seriously enough to forward me a legal pack for me to fill in so they can persue the matter on my behalf. I\'ll let you know how I get on.

About time they did something for DJs

[UKHero 0]

QUOTE (C.S @ Oct 12 2006, 06:13 PM)

Sorry really dont know what you are talking about with that comment. The last part of my post that you put up as a quote was a statement from Chris p and a comment from me, there is nothing quoted that you havent said earlier on the thread. I think it is best we agree to disagree because to be honest you and I seem to be in two completely different worlds and certainly of different opinions . I hope i have provoked some thought with my comments and that we can see it from the venue\hotel owners side aswell as the djs side.We have a responsibility for our own image and its all too easy to sit back and blame others for how people look at us, i see a few comments on this thread treating venue owners in exactly the same way ! Would also like to add that i never have owned or managed the type of venue discussed and with that i withdraw from the thread.

Oh right I see what you mean...

 

So I as a DJ and a Business man who has gone out and spent a lot of money on quality Sound, Lighting, Dress and Music. Has spent years building up a reputation, learning my trade as a DJ and who knows what he is doing... Should say to any bride who has paid me a substantial amount of money, sorry I dont do play lists or requests cause then im not in control of my business and if you give me a c http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/censored2.gif p playlist you could ruin my chances of more work with the people you have invited to your party... All Makes Sence Now Cheers http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/533.gif

 

MMM I think I will add that to my T & Cs today, I'm sure I will get so much more work http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/thumbdown.gif

 

 

Nik

 

[C.S 0]

Completely disagree with your attitude and everything you say . Lets get back on thread.

Edited October 13, 2006 by C.S

[mikeee 0]

Gentlemen, can you PLEASE kiss and make up.

[Dukesy 0]

Actually Mike, I think the guys can disagree if they want!

Anyway, no handbags or paces have been mentioned yet!

 

As much as I love the guys, please, don't start kissing one another!!!

http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/071.gif

[mikeee 0]

Um, sorry. But I was losing the plot of the original thread http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif And there were starting to sound a bit like a husband and wife http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/laugh.gif

[C.S 0]

http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/071.gif

[Paul Forsyth 0]

This has been a very thought provoking thread, and now I remember what I've been missing (not being around for a while).

CS makes a very valid point and one most would understand, that said, the venues that I have come across that enforce an in house DJ have come from the other side of the fence. Their motives have nothing to do with maintaining standards or reputation, and as in the topic case, they do not make the fact that they dictate choice of DJ, upfront. To make things worse they do not even admit that they dictate to the client, they invent excuses such as "we have to name DJ's to get our music licence from the local authority"

It would be interesting to know if anyone has experience of a venue that actually operates the way CS describes.

 

http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/beer.gif

 

Vinnie

 

 

[UKHero 0]

QUOTE (C.S @ Oct 13 2006, 06:20 AM)

Completely disagree with your attitude and everything you say . Lets get back on thread.

And I yours... Shame you could not make a valid argument... I do not take things on here personal just state my views please or offend.. It seems I have offended and I am sorry for this.... As to my attitude you do not know me so please do not question my attitude.... And I will no longer question yours..

 

How ever I do think I have a valid point on your business model and mine where is the difference your Hotel Manager would seem to be a control freak and so does my portrail of a DJ who would not play requested playlists etc...

 

 

i agree with Vinne come on guys who know of a venue where they truly hire a DJ on merit not on price give some examples where they have knowingly gone for the higher priced Jock over the cheaper one.... I want to be proved wrong on this...

 

I to like CS have worked the big hotels in London and some in Europe and not one has been conserned first and formost on the proffesionalism of the DJ First and formost is the price....

 

Again CS if I have upset you in anyway I do appologise but as with all my post they are truly from the heart and I would be the first to admit that I am wrong if proven to be so...

 

 

Nik