What Kit?

[mac 0]

Hi All

 

If you havent read my introduction, I am the Chair of our local TARA and we run several events during the year but due to costs we have to limit them, we have secured funding from a housing society to buy our own Disco equipment that we hope to get the older youths or young adults involved, which we hope they will then actually do our events and give them a possibility of taking things further be it there own mobile disco, dj work or maybe they wish to pursue further education within the music and entertainment curriculum

 

at the moment we mainly do Family/childrens parties but we wish to extend this to Teenager and also events for the elderly within our area

 

we need advice on which equipment we should buy to do Disco's, Karaoke and announcing. we wont be travelling so dont need transport. we will be staying within our community centre which can hold upto 180 people average attendance can be 80-100 but we have seen asteady increase in numbers

 

anyway down to kit we are looking at, maybe everyone can help us make a decision, we cannot decide between two kits we did get our grant on the basis of kit two and the extras but then people tell me not to go for the active use passive i have recieved some advice from our introduction which is great thanks for replying

 

See list of items here

 

Thanks

 

Mac

Edited December 29, 2009 by Abuse Controller

[Robster 0]

I think any system you buy should try to accommodate as many users of the hall as possible out of the two kits you have shown the second with CDG option is probably the best out of the option you listed IMHO.

 

I do think a fixed booth is the way to go . at our community centre everyone uses the central PA system , they get quite a bit of revenue from the weekly aerobics ,bums and tums classes where the lady turns up with a mp3 player and plugs in . They use the system as a background music system also for the centre then it is powerful enough for the discos when they need it to be.

 

The use i see for your centre is probably not what us guys would buy or use. you may end up with a great Disco setup that is useless for the rest of the centre but good for the budding mix dj.. if you went for a two channel scratch mixer for example.

 

I personally would get a flexible mixer one with enough inputs that you can label.. so all the different users know which knob , button or slider to use. Active or passive system wouldn't be an issue what ever the best is for the money , what would be an issue would be how easy will they be to install in the hall , is there power where i want active speakers to go? As i mentioned previously i would put speakers on brackets out of the way to reduce trip hazards etc and also so people use the gear , there is nothing worse than a centre or a school with decent gear that never gets used as setting it up is too hard or time consuming , a installed system will get used. when it comes to set up i would rather than take the mobile dj approach take the permanent club approach. especially with the disco lights.

 

I am purposely being vague and not saying what i would actually buy , because i am trying to throw other points up before you spend the cash and possibly make a bad buying decision. Most Dj's now do not use cd's or karaoke CDGs from my experience ( queue the backlash of oh yes they do lol) they use some sort of media player whether it be a hardware player or laptop. This will be a hard task to accomplish with your budget but with a flexible mixer with lots of inputs this is something that can be added at a later date.

 

I would go to the local paper and ask them to print an appeal for help from people for a equipment and knowledge in your little project , you never know a few tradesmen ie a sparky and a carpenter (to build the booth) would be very useful , i would also look at freecycle and ask the local schools etc for any old gear they have lying around , my local schools have so much stuff in there music departments that they eventually throw out its criminal!

[MintyDave 0]

Hi Mac

i agree with robster on some issues also you need think about the actual users. unless the gear is bombproof and monitored carefully accidents can and will happen. Until not long ago i worked in a youth club and we had a small installation. i used to dj some of the disco's but the majority was done by the yp. I offered training sessions for all budding dj's on how to use the gear safely if nothing else but countless number of times music would come belting out at max volume as somebody had tinkered with faders switces etc and the flick of a switch burst the kit to life with all the faders on max. Blew a few drivers.

 

As regards to the giraffe stand etc - they are too flimsy for such an environment like robster said if you ask about somebody will have a chippy relative. A lockable cupboard would be very advantageous. securing the lights on wall brackets hard wired would be a far better option, costly in the imediate but far more secure.

 

as far as sound systems go then biger the better - you will get a cleaner sound and stand less chance of popping drivers as somebody tries to achieve the prodigy effect.

 

To save a few quid try looking for used gear. There is pleanty advertised on here and you can grab a bargain. I myself will be having a clearout soon and will list my gear asap.

 

Where are you btw out of interest as you may find a local forum member to pop in for a chat.

 

Anyway good luck with the quest and i assume you will be volunteering some time and effort for the good of others so good on you

 

Best wishes

Dave

[mac 0]

Thanks for the advice it would be great to buy a system that we could fit permanently and get maximum usage out of it.however we do not have full access to the building as it is a Town council run property. we get so many free hours and any thing else discos and family nights we have to hire it the same as everyone else.

 

It may be a community centre but to us in the community it feels like a HALL for hire. Thats why we were looking at a mobile setup adding karaoke was just another way for us to use it more.

 

we have a fixed budget as its from a grant thats why we was considering a ready made kitfor £1000-£1300 then extras like Starcloth,dual wireless mics,mastermix Karaoke 30 disc box set then some different genre master mix discs.

 

now im considering forget the kit with stand use a table (got one)possibly keep the starcloth get sperate cdplayers(cd,cdr,mp3)still to decide which.

 

Citronic Pro 3 Channel USB DJ Mixer(3 channel, 9 input mixer - 3 phono, 3 line, 2 USB, 1 mic)which will allow connection of different equipment

 

maybe a seperate karaoke player or dvd still with dual mic and cdg collection.

 

still looking at amps and speakers set ups theres still the question mark on passive or active

 

thanks again for all the help

 

mac

 

 

goalpost truss with 4 - 5 lights

 

and a range of music cds like the now stuff or 101 and other compilations this is to start

 

[Teez 0]

Thanks for the advice it would be great to buy a system that we could fit permanently and get maximum usage out of it.however we do not have full access to the building as it is a Town council run property. we get so many free hours and any thing else discos and family nights we have to hire it the same as everyone else.

 

It may be a community centre but to us in the community it feels like a HALL for hire. Thats why we were looking at a mobile setup adding karaoke was just another way for us to use it more.

 

we have a fixed budget as its from a grant thats why we was considering a ready made kitfor £1000-£1300 then extras like Starcloth,dual wireless mics,mastermix Karaoke 30 disc box set then some different genre master mix discs.

 

now im considering forget the kit with stand use a table (got one)possibly keep the starcloth get sperate cdplayers(cd,cdr,mp3)still to decide which.

 

Citronic Pro 3 Channel USB DJ Mixer(3 channel, 9 input mixer - 3 phono, 3 line, 2 USB, 1 mic)which will allow connection of different equipment

 

maybe a seperate karaoke player or dvd still with dual mic and cdg collection.

 

still looking at amps and speakers set ups theres still the question mark on passive or active

 

thanks again for all the help

 

mac

goalpost truss with 4 - 5 lights

 

and a range of music cds like the now stuff or 101 and other compilations this is to start

 

Plenty of posts on here supporting Active. In your situation I think active will be the simplest and one less piece of kit (amp) to think of/plug in/blow up etc.

[HiSound 0]

I work in a Community Centre very much like being discussed here and would suggest (from experience) passive is a better option. You can lock the amplifier(s) in a cabinet with what i consider an essential piece of equipment, a limiter, to prevent people twiddling knobs and trying to make it louder than it is supposed to go.

 

Not so easy with active speakers as the controls are on the back and it is almost guaranteed that someone will turn then fully up and blow them!

[vokf 0]

I work in a Community Centre very much like being discussed here and would suggest (from experience) passive is a better option. You can lock the amplifier(s) in a cabinet with what i consider an essential piece of equipment, a limiter, to prevent people twiddling knobs and trying to make it louder than it is supposed to go.

 

Not so easy with active speakers as the controls are on the back and it is almost guaranteed that someone will turn then fully up and blow them!

 

 

Good tip from HiSound :Thumbup:

 

Actives should have a built-in limiter, but it won't be as good as a decent limiter module.

 

Passives should be easy to fix when a driver is blown, and amps are quickish to acquire/hire (Maplin are open on Sundays for emergencies!)

 

If budget is a problem, then using an existing table is fine. Its amazing how many DJ's don't have their own stand (most gigs I've done this year have offered a table to put my gear on!).

Get some black cloth from ebay/local shop and find someone to hem it for you to stop it fraying. You can lay this on the table, draping the end over the front to hide the cables.

 

This will look fine - again, I've seen gig pics where DJ's are using a venues table with no cloth to hide the cables.

 

 

I'm not too sure about the mixer. Try to see what Hire companies use.. they'll be reliable and easy to use,

Also, 2nd hand could be a good route. I found a nice 5U, 5 channel mixer with 2 mic inputs for £45 last year. It still works fine (its now a backup) and was a good deal.

 

Again, check what hire companies use. Many DJ's work with CD's only and don't need/want MP3 CD's. On the cheaper end of the market, the MP3 based CD players really won't have the display/interface to deal with 100+ tracks on a CD (with ease).

 

 

[mac 0]

Well Ive found a Dj/disco store not to far away from us had a good chat about what we want to do,veiwed some lights with the smoke going to get the full effect.could spend hours in there and a small fortune.

 

the owner has advised for the type of things we wish to do to go for the following

 

Citronic CD1-X Dual Karaoke/CD Player

Citronic CDM3-1 Mixer

Alliminum Case

KAM 600 watt Amplifier

1pr 250 watt(rms)Speakers

1 pr KAM Radio Microphones

1 T Stand

4 LED lights( 2 small, 2 big)

 

This all comes in under budget, I have looked on the net some cheaper elsewhere some not, but it does balance out over the whole lot

 

Still leaves enough to consider upgrading the lighting to goalpost truss and two more lights.Starcloth for the table, speaker stands.

 

then enough for a nice load of compilations and karaoke discs

 

Whats everbodys opinion on this? or do I need to think bigger,better,best

thanks

mac

 

 

[gadget 0]

What 250w rms speakers did they specify? (make/model/driver size?)

 

Also, what KAM microphones? I've got the KWM11 (VHF) and tbh they started off OK, but they're not so good now - cut out at really short distances... In the same hall 18 months previous you could walk all the way to the other end and would still work. Probably doesnt help someone dropped one of them though :damn:

 

 

Edited January 4, 2010 by gadget

[mac 0]

Will have to phone and get make & model for speakers I do know they are 15in Drivers

 

same for the microphone all he wrote on the qoute is 1pr Kam radio microphones

 

so will get back to you on that,

 

As for dropping equipment that is my worry to, I was thinking if there is such a thing as extension cable for microphones then use wired ones which are cheaper and get a couple of stands,

[vokf 0]

Forget cheap wireless mics. You'll need to keep spare batteries, and the mic is easy to lose.

Potential problems with interference, and will be less quality than a wired mic.

If anyone wants a wireless mic (ie dance instructors etc) they can plug into the mixer.

 

 

Find the price on the Kam radio mic, and try to get them to supply a wired mic to the same value.

I use mainly wired, with a fairly long pink (ie visible!) cable.

 

 

[mac 0]

Thats sounds like a good idea apart for one thing,I hate PINK no offense meant,(its a father/daughter thing) So will try to find another bright colour

Thanks

[vokf 0]

Lol!

 

My coloured cable came from a local DJ store saying they had "loads" of XLR cables, and when I turned up - there was only 1.... :damn:

 

I took it anyway, and its now my mic cable. Pink isn't my colour either, but coincidently I used at a pink & black themed 13th birthday. (and so had a matching pink shirt...!)

 

Cables are fairly cheap, and a spare will be useful. If you need to run the mic to the middle of the floor, then the spare cable can be plugged in as an extension- or otherwise safely stored away.

 

[Dukesy 0]

Hi Mac

 

Difficult!

 

Disco equipment can be and is somewhat personal. When I started mobile, I concentrated on acquiring the 'right' sound system (which sounded clear at max for the number of max audience I expected to entertain), and then concentrated on disco lighting. I spent back then a small fortune but the gear served me well for several years.

I once purchased a brand new light and was so gutted when a fellow DJ showed me what he'd bought second hand for the same amount I'd spent, I vowed I'd never buy a brand new light effect again! LOL!

 

I've tried to follow the "How many times a month / year I intend to use 'X,Y,Z' " philosophy. If the gear is going to take a hammering, then I'll budget for a product that I won't have to keep replacing every 5 or 6 gigs, etc. Obviously, top quality products usually go hand in hand with top price, so perhaps this is where you could consider buying a mixture of second hand with new, as opposed to buying all new.

 

Regardless of whether the hands-on kit is taken out for mobile use, or not, I'd still flight-case. The presentation is obviously better and will help ensure the gear is protected during storage and shifting around.

 

You probably know that any speakers mounted on a tripod will obviously sound different to floor positioned speaker. For karaoke use, you ideally need the head height and sometimes slightly above for optimum performance, clarity, etc, however bass frequencies will be slightly reduced when positioned off the floor.

From experience, I found the EV range of speakers ideal for mixture of karaoke and disco usage. For same usage, I've heard RCF speakers which had a better 'bass' sound on the tripods, but were not too great on higher frequencies.

 

Speaker sound is extremely personal. If you want a good, 'all round' reliable workhorse, then EV's are worth a look at in my opinion. However it is worth investigating whether the terminal connectors inside EVs need a slight alteration, i.e. bending, as their 'positioning' can place strain on the connectors when the speaker driver is well driven. Not easy to repair when broken, and quite costly for like-for-like EV speaker driver replacement!

 

To strike a 'happy medium' for disco and karaoke, you could add a single sub base speaker to any satellite speaker set-up, but do seek advice, check the ratings, etc before purchasing to make a 'customised' sound system from someone who is highly experienced in speaker sound systems.

 

Like I said before, disco equipment can be and is somewhat personal. There are great passive and active sounds out there, but what sounds great to one will be different to another. Purpose is all important. If you get the opportunity, do try to listen to speakers which are mainly intended for vocal use and then listen to disco speakers.

 

Now, what percentage of work will largely dominate the use of the kit - disco use or karaoke use? If the latter, then consider purchasing a system which is not likely to blow when someone is shouting and screeching out their version of a song, when holding the microphone in front of the speakers, etc! I've heard karaoke on dedicated disco systems and they can sound quite awful.

 

If the kit is only going to be used say 12 to 15 times a year by a small number of individuals, then consider keeping the initial purchase costs as low as possible, buy back-up items, flight case the lot and perhaps concentrate on building a good broad music collection (which should come in handy as a resource for the education purpose you previously mentioned, but don't forget that there are libraries out there!).

If the kit is going to be needed over the next three to five years for a diversity of use by a diversity of users, then I'd seriously look deeper into kit with great non-price benefits of quality and reliability.

 

Karaoke wise, the KAM lead mics are reasonable and cheap enough to replace when damaged and abused! Consider purchasing quality mic leads as they make a lot of difference, and the KAM mic leads (they come supplied with) can be used for emergency back-up, if ever required.

 

If you're looking for a quality radio mic, then personally, I can not speak about KAM as I have no experience. If you really 'need' one, then a looked after second-hand Shure Radio Mic will be great, but obviously, it depends what kit you are plugging into! Personally, a Radio Mic would not be that high on my shopping list initially, as it is not that much of an essential item, and more for the benefit of the individual user. I'd suggest purchasing a Radio Mic once everything else has been acquired. Personally speaking again, I have experience with Soundlab Radio Mics and am not impressed. The weight and feel of the Mics were ok, but sadly, they just never worked! :lol2:

 

Having seen the LED par can lights from KAM, I can say they were indeed bright, but I won't be rushing out to buy a second hand set! For me, I'm un-convinced that lighting effects which use 250W bulbs are completely redundant, and you can still pick up some great light effects for mere tens of pounds as opposed to splashing out thirty tenners for a new LED one! LOL!

[mac 0]

It sure is a difficult decision, it proberly would be easier if it was a personal decision,then again Im sure you would all say not.

 

Last year when I decided to try to get this project together little did I know what it would involve, however I cant wait to set it up and get the PARTY STARTED.

 

We managed to get the grant application in within two days notice. normally you have to buy what you state however with all the advice that I have recieved here. changes will be made,I will just tell them have recieved expert advice from professionals(Thats you guys).But even then its not my decision as I have a committee to answer to and they must get there say

 

Then I have to get permission to carry out the changes but the amount I recieve wont change or I have to wait six months for the decision.

 

Ive got some of the older youths and young adults asking me whens it coming? I just say when it comes I cant rush it.but we are aiming to do our first disco for Valentines Day this Febuary

 

mac

 

 

[vokf 0]

...but we are aiming to do our first disco for Valentines Day this Febuary

 

 

Psst? Wanna buy a glitter ball? lol!

 

 

I think we all wish you all the best with this project. You're approaching it in the right way by asking for advice and comparing prices, and I hope the committee will see that.

 

Jason

[mac 0]

unfortunatly Glitter Ball wasnt on the list needed so we cannot afford it.

 

However at every meeting I am well known for saying

 

"ALL DONATIONS ARE GREATLY APPRECIATED"

 

HAHAHAHA

[mac 0]

got the specs through for the speakers that I was quoted for from our local shop they are

 

KAM Z Series MKII Full Range Speakers

A range of passive 8 Ohm speakers featuring; wooden cabinets, ellipse tweeters, black carpet finish, full metal grilles, dual speakon and jack connections, integral polemounts. The RMS outputs for each speaker range from 100w to 350w and the peak outputs are double that.

 

Z1504MKII - £199.99/pair, 15 in Driver,250w RMS

 

are these ok?if we purchase just these should we buy stands?

are they ok on there own or should we consider a set two bass and two tops with different amp?

 

mac

[fester 0]

I've never heard the Z1504 MkII's but if you do decide to buy them then you can get them a lot cheaper, a quick look on djkit shows them @ £165.99/pair.

 

I may be wrong but I understand the Z1504 is discontinued now and has been replaced with the ZP15 which you can get a lot cheaper too - £154.99 inc. delivery from djstore.

[mac 0]

Well I have started to recieve some qoutes back from from dealers, gave them my list and said How much? varying prices have come back that wasnt to far outof the budget or just under.

 

The one thing I have noticed though is a few have swapped the

Citronic CD1-X dual CD/karaoke, Citronic CDM3-1 mixer, 2-4-2 Flightcase

for a

Numark KMX02 & Case

 

has anyone used any of the above? any opinions welcome,

 

Is it better to use a seperate mixer or not? as I know we can attach further things to a mixer can the same be done for the KMX02?

 

Thanks for helping

 

Mac