Nnnnooooo! Not Another "pro Dj"!

[exbutlinred82 0]

I'm 51 at end of month.

 

If Im lucky i've got 5 or 6 years left before people will be expecting Tea Dances or Singalongs from me.

 

Wouldnt like to be in my 20's or 30's with this as my only income.

 

 

[D.X 0]

so time has come to hang the head phones

 

More gigs for us now. Ta very much :Thumbup:

[DJTREV 0]

Having been a member of this forum for many years it never ceases to amaze me how the same things come up year in year out.

As long as I can remember we have had people on here moaning about £60 Sid or telling us how good they are,how they can command big mega bucks,how good their website is,how good they are at marketing and sales and at selling themselves.

As a customer you couldnt give me anything that I would consider paying £3/400 for.

As a dj I wouldn't consider telling a potential customer why they should pick me over somebody else.

I have the equipment,a reasonable selection of music,if they want me, they know the price,the decision is theirs.End of.

In fact I sometimes think that it would be good to just turn up at one of these mega bucks discos and just see what they have to offer that they think is worth that sort of money.

[D.X 0]

As a dj I wouldn't consider telling a potential customer why they should pick me over somebody else.

I have the equipment,a reasonable selection of music,if they want me, they know the price,the decision is theirs.End of.

 

This I don't understand. People, DJs in particular, need to realise that DJing is a business and the whole point of a business is to make money. You should be screaming from the rooftops why clients should pick you and not me.

 

 

[McCardle 1]

This I don't understand. People, DJs in particular, need to realise that DJing is a business and the whole point of a business is to make money.

 

Fully agree.

 

Anybody care to join me with a cup of calming nettle tea??

[TonyB 0]

This I don't understand. People, DJs in particular, need to realise that DJing is a business and the whole point of a business is to make money. You should be screaming from the rooftops why clients should pick you and not me.

 

I think that this is often the case with DJ's, they don't see it as a business. They don't sit down and do proper accounts to see how much each gig is costing them. If they have bought the equipment, they then think that anything they earn goes in their back pocket.

 

Simple example, DJ's rig has cost about £5000 to buy all the bits and pieces. DJ's part time doing about 20 gigs a year. To actually earn enough to recover the outlay over 3 years would be about £80 per gig.

 

Add other costs such as music (£20 per month) £240.00 PA, PLI £75.00 PA, PAT £120 P.A, Transport/fuel (£10 per gig) £200 per year =£635 divided by 20 gigs = £32.

 

Total cost per gig now £112.00. Charge £150 less £112 = £38.00. Less 25% tax/national insurance =£29.00 for the back pocket.

 

Charge £60 and its costing money to go out each time!

[disco4hire 1]

In fact I sometimes think that it would be good to just turn up at one of these mega bucks discos and just see what they have to offer that they think is worth that sort of money.

I think you should, not all discos are the same, some fit into a Fiesta and go out at £100 or so, others need a LWB panel van and a road crew to transport and go out for £1000. It all depends on the clients needs and budget.

 

[DJTREV 0]

This I don't understand. People, DJs in particular, need to realise that DJing is a business and the whole point of a business is to make money. You should be screaming from the rooftops why clients should pick you and not me.

 

No not quite.To pro's it's a business,to others,like me,its an extra way of making money.not the be all and end all.

I bought all my gear over to Portugal and despite handing out cards I have hardly had anything.Tough.No good losing sleep over it,but,I did have a job during the day.

 

 

I think you should, not all discos are the same, some fit into a Fiesta and go out at £100 or so, others need a LWB panel van and a road crew to transport and go out for £1000. It all depends on the clients needs and budget.

 

Yep.Then when you put Agadoo and the Birdie song on you become very ordinary.

.

 

[Kingy 0]

No not quite.To pro's it's a business,to others,like me,its an extra way of making money.not the be all and end all.

 

 

.

 

Still makes it a business!!

[DJTREV 0]

I think that this is often the case with DJ's, they don't see it as a business. .........other stff

 

 

Charge £60 and its costing money to go out each time!

 

I think the point here is that £60 Sid puts all the money in his back pocket.He is not legit,he gets away with everything he can.

Surely thats why he charges £60,even some of those that charge in the hundreds will be cutting as many corners as they can get away with.

 

[UKHero 0]

I think you should, not all discos are the same, some fit into a Fiesta and go out at £100 or so, others need a LWB panel van and a road crew to transport and go out for £1000. It all depends on the clients needs and budget.

 

I dont think the guy from NZ uses a LWB transit and commands that sort of fee.....

 

Nik

[Kingy 0]

I dont think the guy from NZ uses a LWB transit and commands that sort of fee.....

 

Nik

 

Do I feel a L1 Bose comment coming on.... :devil:

[UKHero 0]

Do I feel a L1 Bose comment coming on.... :devil:

 

not from me... DAN!!!! lol

 

Nik

[D.X 0]

No not quite.To pro's it's a business,to others,like me,its an extra way of making money.not the be all and end all.

I bought all my gear over to Portugal and despite handing out cards I have hardly had anything.Tough.No good losing sleep over it,but,I did have a job during the day.

 

 

It's still a business. Anything involving services for recompense is a business whether it's your main business or not. You do it to earn money, surely the more you earn the better. It's in your best interest to convince as many clients as possible to book you instead of me.

 

I'm not surprised you haven't got any work mate, you seem very laid back in your approach to getting gigs.

[DJTREV 0]

 

I'm not surprised you haven't got any work mate, you seem very laid back in your approach to getting gigs.

 

That's just the point.I dont look on it as a 'business'.If I get the gig all well and good but its not the end of the world if I dont.It means I can have a night in with the wife and I dont have all the hassle of loading,unloading,setting up,setting down,loading and then unloading again.

As I said in a previous post I have the gear why waste it.Its there if somebody wants to hire me.

Quite frankly,after doing it for 30 odd years there are just so many rules and regulations and added costs nowadays that it is rapidly loosing its appeal

 

[McCardle 1]

I think that this is often the case with DJ's, they don't see it as a business. They don't sit down and do proper accounts to see how much each gig is costing them. If they have bought the equipment, they then think that anything they earn goes in their back pocket.

 

Exactly, just ask a business orientated question here which isn't related to buying equipment or talking about it, I guarantee you'll wait for hours to get a reply, if indeed you ever do and it'll never get the interest that this thread as got. Just yesterday Dukesy asked a question in relation to hiring equipment, I think it got one reply, several hours later and probably as a result of sympathy , how many people dry hire equipment here?, probably approaching double figures, and what about all of those captains of industry professing earnings of big bucks, or those involved with other activities such as choccie fountains and bouncy castles, surely THEY can answer a simple question on liabilities?, where are both of these examples when it comes to answering a question which must surely include them or research that they have done or at least their vast experience would deem that they are likely to know the answer to?. Maybe if the full timers were quick to answer these types of questions more often it would set a distinct example to the part timers?.

 

That's just the point.I dont look on it as a 'business'.

 

Of course you don't, and neither do a lot of others and for a lot of people its just a hobby, but thats not to say that they don't take it seriously or don't have many years worth of happy clients to back up the quality of service they provide. For them they are not to bothered about reclawing back the cost of their 'hobby' i.e the equipment any more than somebody who spends £3000+ on Scuba Diving Equipment, Golf Clubs, Hang Gliding or Ski's. Plenty of people spend a lot of cash on various specialised equipment in order to persue something that they enjoy and if they get back even a small fraction of that outlay then its a bonus and far better than other pastimes or hobbies which essentially pay back nothing at all. But again, I stress that doing something as a hobby doesn't mean that those doing it don't take it seriously or aren't good at it, after all if you don't take the other hobby examples like hanggliding or scuba diving seriously, you'll die :scared: , of course you can take an hobby seriously!.

 

Some may even consider it an investment!. After all, you buy £4000 of equipment and if you are lucky you start getting back £100, £200 or £300 per gig from that investment from the very next weekend. You won't get that from investing the £4000 at TSB, even if the risks are lower.

 

However one thing to remember, and that is whether or not you consider what you do as a hobby or an occupation, the laws and rules (in the UK at least) on things like consumer law and tax requirements apply in just the same measures whether you made a loss last year or £150,000, and the client is protected by the same laws in the event of any complaint or non turnout the fact that you charge a fee for providing a service to a client makes you a business whether you like it (or accept it) or not. Its when those obligations are not followed that people become unstuck, and that applies to both full and part time deejays, the law does not discriminate in this respect.

 

Basically part of the frustration comes down to the fact, that there is absolutely nothing those of us who are full time can do about it, other than to diversify and find ways of making our service more attractive and that is why these types of topics keep appearing.

Edited April 13, 2009 by McCardle

[disco4hire 1]

Just yesterday Dukesy asked a question in relation to hiring equipment, I think it got one reply, several hours later and probably as a result of sympathy , how many people dry hire equipment here?, probably approaching double figures, and what about all of those captains of industry professing earnings of big bucks, or those involved with other activities such as choccie fountains and bouncy castles, surely THEY can answer a simple question on liabilities?

 

I saw the question but choose not to post a reply because any reply would be a matter of opinion and not a matter of fact, and to post my opinion as a statement of law is not in anybody's interest. I doubt any member of this forum is in a position to make a definitive statement of fact, they're too many variables. Personally I'm reasonably sure I've covered myself with my hire contract which is signed by every hirer, but I may prove to be mistaken if it ever came to a high court case. As far as I'm concerned, it's a risk I'm prepared to take. If you are averse to all of life's risks, you will never do anything. I take all reasonable precautions to avoid mishaps, but I'm not prepared to let fear of the consequences of a one in a million occurrence dictate my life. I doubt if any retailer of equipment worries about an uninsured purchaser uses the item foolishly and causes injury, unless the item is faulty, it's not their problem.

[McCardle 1]

Sorry, I wasn't singling out anybody in particular nor asking for justification, I was just making an observation generally and that was one thread that was still fresh in my mind, there are many others I could have used as i've asked business and marketing questions in the past that I hoped others could answer or would spark a decent thread and have been unsuccessful on both counts, as have others, yet on various small business forums similar questions are answered routinely and discussed openly everyday and in some depth on a goodwill basis from other business owners rather than lawyers. I just think that more could be achieved if as much effort was put into discussing various business related activities as is put in with soap opera styled threads or talking about nice lights and technology, then maybe we'd all get somewhere as an industry and win back some of the respect that some think is lacking, part and full timers alike :Thumbup: but if we don't give it a go we'll never know.

Edited April 14, 2009 by McCardle

[DJTREV 0]

Sorry, I wasn't singling out anybody in particular nor asking for justification, I was just making an observation generally and that was one thread that was still fresh in my mind, there are many others I could have used as i've asked business and marketing questions in the past that I hoped others could answer or would spark a decent thread and have been unsuccessful on both counts, as have others, yet on various small business forums similar questions are answered routinely and discussed openly everyday and in some depth on a goodwill basis from other business owners rather than lawyers. I just think that more could be achieved if as much effort was put into discussing various business related activities as is put in with soap opera styled threads or talking about nice lights and technology, then maybe we'd all get somewhere as an industry and win back some of the respect that some think is lacking, part and full timers alike :Thumbup: but if we don't give it a go we'll never know.

 

Sorry McCardle but you have been thumping this particular drum for so long now.Does it not seem that probably the overwhelming majority of dj's on this site actually do prefer soap opera threads,nice lights and technology.They may well have this as a 'business' but are more interested in the nuts and bolts of their hobby.

This is not meant to be a personal attack on Jose of AAADISCO but when I read his post about selling himself I just thought what a load of bull.As a customer I would know what I want.I will have seen him and heard him all that I needed to know now would be the price.If the price is right,job done.

Edited April 14, 2009 by DJTREV

[aaadisco 0]

DJ Trev,

 

I don't wish to get in to an argument and you are welcome to your opinions.

 

I'm sorry you thought my post was bull, it is funny how people always hate salespople and think what we say is rubbish. Must just be luck that my business is going well.

 

I thought the idea of this forum was to share ideas and help one another and that is why I took the time to bother writing the post thinking it could help someone.

 

Let's end this post here, next time just ignore what I say if you don't like it.

 

Thanks

 

[DJTREV 0]

Jose

I didnt intend this to get to any argument.My point is that you dont have to sell yourself to me as a customer over the phone.I will already know whether I like what you offer.It all comes down to cost and value for money.

 

'it is funny how people always hate salespople' well I am afraid that its like the £60 Sids of the disco world.They tarnish the image that DJ's like yourself are trying to convey,just in the same way that pushy salespeople tarnish the reputation of geniune hard working guys in sales.

 

Someone recently told me I was a cynical and miserable old sod.But do you know Jose,I worked for the same company for46 years,paid all my dues and demands,but when I needed a little help from this country they said on ya bike.They preferred to put their,my money,to better use helping minority groups that wanted to escape the oppressive regime they were escaping from.Bitter,you bet I am.

 

Sorry about the rant and going off topic.

 

I am truly glad that youtr business is going well and long may it remain so

[aaadisco 0]

Trev - I've sent you a PM..

[UKHero 0]

Jose

I didnt intend this to get to any argument.My point is that you dont have to sell yourself to me as a customer over the phone.I will already know whether I like what you offer.It all comes down to cost and value for money.

 

But Trev this is not always the case. I work all over the UK where people have not seen me or even know me. Many other DJs on here I know do the same. Many people enquire about my cost and I never hear from them again but others show an interest in me and the services I provide and yes pay a higher premium for those services. I see my market split into two main groups, The Ipod group (whom I would suggest you cater for) who just want music no other interest in the DJ what so ever. Then there is the group i Call the valueists whom I aim myself at they show an interest in me, my services, the music and understand the value that a good DJ and show brings to their receprion or party. Both have their place in our market but since I have targeted the "Valueists" I have increased my turnover and lowered my work load.

 

A few years back I was working for £120 a gig my average is now about £300 some gigs in the week paying £190 and some on a weekend paying £450+

 

I am happy with what I do as you are with what you do so thats cool but please dont say its not a business.

 

I would take it from your comments you dont keep books and so wont be paying income tax on the disco earnings as its not a business or maybe dont have PLI or PAT????

 

Nik

Edited April 14, 2009 by UKHero

[DJTREV 0]

 

 

I would take it from your comments you dont keep books and so wont be paying income tax on the disco earnings as its not a business or maybe dont have PLI or PAT????

 

Nik

 

As it happens Nik,because there is virtually no work going here in Portugal,for whatever reason,I have neither PAT or PLI.No gigs,no income tax.I have given it all up until I return to England.Even then It is all likekly that I will call it a day.

Apart from that you should know better than to ask that question or insinuate it on a public forum

 

 

[Dream Catchers 0]

Can everbody please make themselves aware of the forums acceptable use policy here.

Inparticular the section on questioning others business practices.

22) Do not publicly start threads or post questioning the business integrity of another colleague or member. Doing so is totally unprofessional and may appear to the casual observer to be "sour grapes" on your part.

If you have any genuine, provable grounds to question another persons business ethics or integrity or if you are a client involved in a dispute with one of our members or have grounds to complain against another member or retailer, then please privately contact a member of the Moderator Team with the details of your complaint and we will try to assist.

 

Jim