What Would You Have Done?

[spinner 0]

I have done it already so this post is not asking what I should have done but I'm interested to know what others would have done in similar circumstances.

 

I had an enquiry a while ago for a wedding at a venue I know, which is not cheap. The times were less than my standard 4 hours.

 

I sent a brochure and received a reply saying what an excellent service package, how professional etc etc etc then telling me the available budget was 89% of my standard (up to 4 hours) charge. It then asked for a quote to include background music for 21/2 hours plus disco for 4 hours adding that if a price could be negotiated a booking would be made without delay.

 

The correct price for what was requested is 34% more than the stated budget figure. If I had offered to do it for the stated budget price it would have meant giving a discount of over 25%.

 

What would you have done?

 

 

[funkymook 0]

If the B&G were genuinely strapped for cash and I knew they had to do everything on a tight budget, and I really liked them, then I would consider helping them by giving a discount.

 

But as you've stated it's not a cheap venue then I'll assume this isn't the case, so I wouldn't offer any discount at all. They are haggling over a few hundred pounds at the most (I don't know your charges so guessing here) which considering the cost of the wedding overall is a tiny percentage.

 

I'm going to hazard a guess and say they won't risk losing you by asking for discount more than once and have agreed to pay your non-discounted rate.

[vokf 0]

Look at how hungry I was for the gig. This could mean, wanting to get into the venue (for promotion reasons), short notice, or simply wanting to fill the date.

 

The B&G finances are of little concern once they start messing about.

Looking at what's been posted re:details.

 

So you (Steve) have a rate for a 4hr service. They wanted less time. Assuming they said 3hrs, then it could be possible to shave 1/4 or 25% off the rate, and realistically be out of pocket.

Ok, now this leaves your charge at 75% of your normal charge (within their 89% budget)

At this point, my quote would show this discount with a note to explain by agreement due to times required and budget constraints we are delighted to provide a 25% discount.

 

They THEN need background music for 2 1/2hrs and a requote for a 4hr disco.

I would quote the disco at full rate, with a token discount for background.

I expect they would be trying it on. Either they want "me" as a DJ, with my service, or they are looking for the cheapest quote and probably expecting 4hr disco+2 1/2 background for their budget.

 

At this point, I would pick up the phone, I would not simply re-quote via email.

Ultimately, the decision will be based on if I want the job.

 

 

Haggling/Negotiating is a legitimate practice, its just that most don't do it well.

 

Buyers in companies "haggle" with suppliers (all supermarkets do this), and most of us try to shave cash off a used car.

[wizard 0]

I would not have given discount in the first place, I have had a few try but I always say it is unfair on everyone else who has paid the full price. So far I have never lost a gig over it.

 

The only extra they could have asked for from me would be after midnight. If they changed the times it would be changing the contract, MY T&C state that can only be done if agreed in writing by both parties, they would then have to pay the after midnight rate.

 

So what did you do ??

[Dukesy 0]

There are several ways i'd look at this. First of all the timescale between the negotiation and the actual function, if its a year or several months away, then i'd examine the likelihood of being booked by another client who would be willing to pay the usual rate, or not demand so much of a discount. However if it was a week before the event, and I still wasn't booked and business was otherwise quiet, then i'd also examine the philosophy that any business is better than no business at all, assuming that the discounted price did actually make a profit, but at the same time i'd try to find a halfway ground between that 25% - possibly 10 - 15% and ask the client to essentially meet me halfway in the negotiations.

 

I'd also subtly try and encourage the client to perhaps look at making part or all of her / his saving elsewhere, A 25% discount off a DJ's fee is quite a significant cut (whatever the fee happens to be) especially as given the other costs involved with a wedding usually means that even an expensive Dj would still essentially be at the lower end of the expenses scale compared to a Venue, Catering or a Honeymoon!. It would be far easier essentially for a venue already quoting in four or five figures for the actual Wedding Hire, to knock £50 - £100 off that £5000 - £10,000 fee than to expect a DJ to knock the same £50 - £100 off their £250 - £500 fee!, economies of scale etc etc.

 

Often a polite reference to 'Will you and your guests also be saving 25% off the price of their drinks all night when the bar matches my discount' can be a lighthearted way of putting a point across, if I wasn't going to be offering a discount.

 

I'd also bear in mind that you also have to examine how quickly you accept to work at a discount, should you snap the clients hands off too quickly and accept a lower fee, without trying to negotiate your own corner, may leave the client thinking that you accepted the reduced fee far too eagerly and so you must have been overpriced in the first place. The client may also have many friends and contacts to whom she / he recommends you too, at her 'discounted' price obviously, could you afford to work at 25% below your normal fee on several different occasions, if the word-of-mouth opportunity arose from that one gig?.

 

I also believe in negotiation, but 25% is one hell of a discount for a client to expect. If you were to get a car dealer or double glazing sales person drunk one night, i'm sure that it would come out that these typically 'negotiated' industries often build in a small extra % profit margin on top of their goods price in order to counteract a client coming onto the forecourt and wanting to negotiate a discount. In the case it happens, the dealer knocks his additional 'negotiation factor' to please the client, yet gets his original pre-mark up asking price and the client goes away bragging about how he 'knocked down' the dealer on the price of his latest bargain, so everybody is happy and gets what they wanted. If the client pays the screen price, then more fool him / her and the dealer gets his mark up plus the additional 5% - 10% built in negotiation factor, so the dealer is chuffed and plans a night out.

 

At the end of the day, its all at the discretion of the person running the business and handling the financies. I must admit that there have been times when i've stood my ground and stated that due to distances, timescales etc it would be impossible to offer any discount, then wrote off the gig only for them to contact me a day or so later asking if I was still available and went on to book anyway :shrug: .

 

However, in relation to a thread I posted on yesterday i'm not surprised that clients are getting more and more asute and confident at negotiating a discount or looking at Wedding savings, because this year especially almost every Wedding Magazine has encouraged the practice by running a double / treble page spread in an issue, entirely dedicated to listing tips in dealing / negotiating with Wedding suppliers and also as to where and when actual services can be cut out of the equation. (I won't mention words like I-pods as it upsets people).

 

 

 

 

[spinner 0]

I should have added that, whilst my base price is almost 24% higher than the clients' budget before adding extra for background music, they did say that they were prepared to exceed their budget if there was room for negotiation.

[spinner 0]

I would not have given discount in the first place, I have had a few try but I always say it is unfair on everyone else who has paid the full price. So far I have never lost a gig over it.

 

The only extra they could have asked for from me would be after midnight. If they changed the times it would be changing the contract, MY T&C state that can only be done if agreed in writing by both parties, they would then have to pay the after midnight rate.

 

So what did you do ??

 

Just to reiterate:

 

The original enquiry was to play from 21:00-24:00. My base fee is for up to 4 hours. I charge £60 per hour after that. For background music before the main event I charge £30 per hour.

 

I sent a brochure, with prices and the clients responded to say that they had budgeted for 88.5% of my base fee but they were prepared to stretch it if there was room for negotiation. They went on to say they would like the main disco from 20:00-24:00 with background music from 17:30-20:00.

 

I responded quoting my normal fee for 20:00-24:00 and offering a separate background music system (powered speaker and minidisk or mp3 player) which the best man could operate (press "play" in other words), for a nominal £25 - a saving of £50.

 

Clients booked, on the basis that they may have to forgo the background music system and just have the disco at the standard price.

Edited September 10, 2010 by spinner

[Norfolk DJ 0]

 

Personally I too would have negotiated a deal for gig if I had been the B&G.

 

Lots of different options here, but it comes down to whether you are prepared to

[spinner 0]

Personally I too would have negotiated a deal for gig if I had been the B&G.

 

Lots of different options here, but it comes down to whether you are prepared to

 

 

But the question was what would you (as a DJ not a B&G) have done?

[Paul The Party DJ 0]

Discounting is always a difficult decision - for me how far in advance and how desirable the date was. If I liked the venue and the client I would have gone with it, if the date was a long way in advance and likely to get booked anyway I probably would have declined the booking.

 

Cheers, Paul

 

[Robster 0]

If a customer emailed me back saying" i have budgeted 88.5% of your base fee" I would think they were very precise and analytical and slightly strange to be honest .

 

if the emailed me our budget is £X and your base price is £x that would suggest they are interested but after a deal .

 

I would have gone to see them face to face and thrashed out a deal that worked for all of us, I really don't like doing deals without seeing the people involved, I can gauge if it is worth my while or if they are the type that strike a price but then want more for nothing and push it to the point of bare faced cheek or they are genuinely on a tight budget and will be grateful you have been flexible. If they want a direct answer via email or the phone the answer is sorry no.

[spinner 0]

If a customer emailed me back saying" i have budgeted 88.5% of your base fee" I would think they were very precise and analytical and slightly strange to be honest .

 

That's not what happened.

 

if the emailed me our budget is £X and your base price is £x that would suggest they are interested but after a deal .

That is what happened.

 

I would have gone to see them face to face and thrashed out a deal that worked for all of us, I really don't like doing deals without seeing the people involved, I can gauge if it is worth my while or if they are the type that strike a price but then want more for nothing and push it to the point of bare faced cheek or they are genuinely on a tight budget and will be grateful you have been flexible. If they want a direct answer via email or the phone the answer is sorry no.

The enquiry was from 95 miles away. Would you have gone that far?

 

 

[Dukesy 0]

If they want a direct answer via email or the phone the answer is sorry no.

 

Do you do the same regardless of whether its a Wedding Client or a Pub based client?

 

The reason I ask, is that I know from my own Wedding just how much there is to arrange and to remember and just how limited the time is of most working Brides and Grooms. Even organising and getting fitted for the dress can take the Bride several hours and several visits to the shop to make the adjustments etc not to mention writing and sending out hundreds of invitations. Lets assume that all of the Wedding Services which the Bride and Groom need to book, all refuse to negotiate fees before they actually have arranged a meeting with the B&G personally?, thats a hell of a lot of meetings and a burden on their time and I wonder in essence just how many Bride and Grooms would actually have that amount of time to spend indulging and meeting with the service providers personally, before they even had a ball park figure from the supplier.

 

Of course there is always a risk that the client was totally set on this price / budget and would refuse to budge, in which case organising and arranging a meeting would also be a waste of my time and fuel, even more so for me, as despite moving to Derbyshire some years ago, I still have a very active client base 220 miles away in Essex & Kent

 

Can you imagine what it would be like if Disco Shops refused to publish prices or negotiate deals over the phone and tell us the price of a piece of sound and lighting equipment, until we had actually taken the time to drive over to the shop and spoken to the manager and demo'ed the equipment .

[Robster 0]

If a customer emailed me back saying" i have budgeted 88.5% of your base fee" I would think they were very precise and analytical and slightly strange to be honest .

 

That's not what happened.

 

Thought that sounded funny

 

if the emailed me our budget is £X and your base price is £x that would suggest they are interested but after a deal .

That is what happened. guessed that was the case :dukesy:

 

I would have gone to see them face to face and thrashed out a deal that worked for all of us, I really don't like doing deals without seeing the people involved, I can gauge if it is worth my while or if they are the type that strike a price but then want more for nothing and push it to the point of bare faced cheek or they are genuinely on a tight budget and will be grateful you have been flexible. If they want a direct answer via email or the phone the answer is sorry no.

The enquiry was from 95 miles away. Would you have gone that far?

 

Nope ..I don't , I purposely set up my stall for local area only for issues like this. My website etc states I only do the local area.

 

Wasn't having a go just stating what i would have done given the information in the post.

 

 

 

Do you do the same regardless of whether its a Wedding Client or a Pub based client?

 

 

Most of the time

 

The reason I ask, is that I know from my own Wedding just how much there is to arrange and to remember and just how limited the time is of most working Brides and Grooms. Even organising and getting fitted for the dress can take the Bride several hours and several visits to the shop to make the adjustments etc not to mention writing and sending out hundreds of invitations. Lets assume that all of the Wedding Services which the Bride and Groom need to book, all refuse to negotiate fees before they actually have arranged a meeting with the B&G personally?, thats a hell of a lot of meetings and a burden on their time and I wonder in essence just how many Bride and Grooms would actually have that amount of time to spend indulging and meeting with the service providers personally, before they even had a ball park figure from the supplier.

In the above case they had a ball park figure and the OP knew the customers budget and additional requirements a local face to face meeting would have sorted that but now we find it is 95 miles away lets say the customer was 2 miles away and not 95 miles that would have made a lot of difference to how you could have dealt with the customer and is why i only do local gigs. I have never had a Bride and groom ever refuse a meeting because they were busy etc they obviously know the ball park figures before a meeting ,i will do meetings any day and any evening apart from when i am working.

 

Of course there is always a risk that the client was totally set on this price / budget and would refuse to budge, in which case organising and arranging a meeting would also be a waste of my time and fuel, even more so for me, as despite moving to Derbyshire some years ago, I still have a very active client base 220 miles away in Essex & Kent

 

Again why i only do local gigs

 

Can you imagine what it would be like if Disco Shops refused to publish prices or negotiate deals over the phone and tell us the price of a piece of sound and lighting equipment, until we had actually taken the time to drive over to the shop and spoken to the manager and demo'ed the equipment .

I have worked in electrical stores where competitors have a price match , never knowingly under sold policy so we did not have prices on stock so they couldn't price match!

I was a Bose home audio dealer and they had an agreement (yes was on dodgy cartel lines) that you only advertise recommended prices. we always said pop down and you will get a good deal. This was common practice in brown goods retail. We were told by management never to quote discount prices for Bose over the phone .

 

 

 

[spinner 0]

 

The enquiry was from 95 miles away. Would you have gone that far?

 

[/i]Nope ..I don't , I purposely set up my stall for local area only for issues like this. My website etc states I only do the local area.

 

 

 

The venue is 15 minutes drive away.

 

The clients are 95 miles away

[Robster 0]

 

 

The venue is 15 minutes drive away.

 

The clients are 95 miles away

 

now when i get an enquiry i do ask both where they live or can be contacted and the venue but that is a situation i haven't come across to be honest anyway gotta go or i'll be late for tonights gig cya later guys

Edited September 11, 2010 by Robster

[Dukesy 0]

I have worked in electrical stores where competitors have a price match , never knowingly under sold policy so we did not have prices on stock so they couldn't price match!

I was a Bose home audio dealer and they had an agreement (yes was on dodgy cartel lines) that you only advertise recommended prices. we always said pop down and you will get a good deal. This was common practice in brown goods retail. We were told by management never to quote discount prices for Bose over the phone .

 

I can see the logic in this, after all management had to justify the rent, lighting and heating of those shops, and also the wages of salespeople like yourself. If customers just used the phone and bought by mail, then they'd just need a few people answering phones and taking orders in a central call centre and a DHL account, and they could get rid of the shop, and excess staff.

 

I suspect that this type of thing is on the wane these days, with the growth of mail order and the internet. One of the reasons why big businesses are investing millions into comparison site shopping like Kelkoo is to enable customers to see and actively compare prices and get the best deal on a wide range of goods and services with the minimum of fuss

 

On a personal note, I actually hate setting foot in a retail outlet these days. Far too much pressure when you are interested in buying something to spend more by taking out 3 and 5 year extended warranties or get yourself into debt with high interest finance agreements. The same applies to banking, I long for the days when you can walk into a bank to deposit or move money without having to sit through a lecture about mortgage rates, and other services from insurance to financial services or go back at a later date for a meeting with their advisor!. Its not surprising that I don't subject myself to this torture and do most of those things online.

 

Its not unreasonable therefore to expect a client to do the same thing in respect of finding their Wedding Services and so search Google in order to find a DJ, then shortlist a cross section of those DJ's based on their first impressions of the websites, whether they were impressed with description, services offered etc, usually then the initial contact will eventually be made with all of the businesses on that list in order to get further information along with a quote, which is then usually followed occasionally with a further second contact if the price isn't quite within their budget, in order to negotiate possibility of a discount etc.

 

In most cases you won't be the only business quoting the client at that stage, and indeed the client may even be attempting to do nothing other than to 'dutch auction' one or several businesses against each other, in order to obtain the lowest possible price available.

 

Bear in mind that the client hasn't actually engaged your services at this point, nor even had confirmation of whether you would even consider giving them the stated discount nor is there any indication that they will go to book you regardless of the outcome of any meeting. I wouldn't arrange a meeting with the client prior to them actually booking (unless it was logistically viable and done entirely at the request of the client). IMO any meeting with the client at this stage, especially one which is deliberately set up with a purpose to discuss price and discounts could largely be seen as a high pressure sales opportunity from the prospective of some clients and be off putting, having somebody turn up on your doorstep in order to talk about and justify their price etc etc.

 

Often a Bride and Groom will usually need time to go away and discuss the matter with other parties, perhaps its an old fashioned family where one or both sets of parents pay for the reception costs, or maybe they just want to talk it over with friends, other couples etc. Personally, in the first instance I prefer to just give them a price, tell them a little more more about my business and then answer any questions / concerns they may have and then and let them go away in order to consider the quote and anything i've told them and allow them make the decision in their own time and on their own terms.

 

In relation to offering a discount, I can usually decide there and then as to whether a discount is viable and quote the client an accurate figure based on their exact requirements. After all, no personal meeting with the client will change the distance to the venue, travelling time, fuel costs, insurance costs, material costs like CD's and all of the other factors which i'm already aware of from the initial enquiry and will all combine to determine how much I can reasonably work for, on that basis there really isn't anything to discuss further. In fact, even the actual process of going to a pre-booking meeting is actually increasing the cost of their function, as soon as I leave the house and turn the ignition key, its costing something, so a direct contrast with the savings they hope to achieve.

 

If the client is currently also in the process of negotiating with several other DJ's, who are willing to discuss prices and give a more accurate quote there and then, what would make the client want to go to the effort of setting up a meeting and take an hour out of their weekend just to meet up in order to discuss basic price information that others can give over the phone / by email, and they can just book there and then.

 

I'm all for the personal touch when it comes to clients and meetings where Wedding Receptions are concerned, however I always do this when contracts are exchanged in order to meet them and discuss their individual requirements and running order, as opposed to just meeting to bartering price. If I arranged to meet every single client who was just shopping on price or who contacted me with a view to wanting a cheaper quote than the other 8 DJ's who had quoted before me, i'd never get any time with the family.

[spinner 0]

now when i get an enquiry i do ask both where they live or can be contacted and the venue but that is a situation i haven't come across to be honest anyway gotta go or i'll be late for tonights gig cya later guys

 

 

I often get enquiries for weddings locally where the clients are miles away.

 

The furthest was Africa.