Smoking Ban

[YourBigEvent 0]

I have never smoke a cigerette in my life but have 20 plus years of passive smoking, which is appartently worse than smoking itself.

I know that smelling of fags in part of the job, which is why some nights I have to have a shower at 4am before I go to bed.

Us older DJ's will remember when speakers, and light boxes were carpeted, I had an old Escort van which stank of fags because the smell of the carpeted speakers.

[OK KARAOKE 1]

What about (us non-smokers) offering a discount to non-smoking venues??

[YourBigEvent 0]

QUOTE

What about (us non-smokers) offering a discount to non-smoking venues??

http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/wallbash.gif

 

I don't play football but each football club won't get a discount for thier annual dinner and dance.

 

Discount, I believe, is knocking the price down. Why would I want to do that ?

[Ian Stewart 0]

As a non smoker I will welcome any smoking ban that is enforced, and I honestly believe that the ban WILL be imposed in public areas because of health & safety issues

 

 

[ChrisPointon 0]

Amazing isn't it, that foods containing Sudan 1 were removed from the shelves of Supermarkets within 24 hours because they were Rumored (but never proven) to cause cancer. However i'm sure that you'll find a wide variety of ciggies still openly available in most supermarkets and these are proven to increase your chances of cancer!. Double Standards?. Why not just label the foods with a Government Health warning?.

 

I had this conversation with a friend (a smoker) who argued that Children could mistakenly eat Sudan 1 products and increase their chance of cancer in later life, to which my reply was 'And you and your wife smoking around them doesn't?' http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/188.gif

 

I agree with Ian, the sooner a non smoking ban comes into force in Pubs and venues, the better.

 

QUOTE

Please don't take this the wrong way mate, but surely being a DJ, means that smelling of ciggy's / dealing with smokers, is an occupational hazard?

 

If you worked in a factory, with obnoxious fumes, then you would be given protective clothing and perhaps some form of mask. Very soon, I can see a link between smoking related diseases and passive smoking actually being proven, and then employers will suddenly become liable for illnesses caused to their bar / waiting on staff through working in such an environment. Thus, Managers and landlords will have no real option but to ban smoking in their venues in order to protect themselves against liability claims. You think that this may be far fetched?, well, 10 years ago in the UK, nobody even knew what 'No win, No fee' meant http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/smile.gif

 

Ever seen the fan and insides of your lighting effect after a years work?, and the sticky tar residues on the PCB's and heatsinks of your Amplifier?, well you are working in the same environment and at exactly the same venues as your gear!, so the chances are, that you are breathing in the same matter.

 

QUOTE

No doubt these law makers have large vested interests in large multi-national chemical / oil companies who are doing more damage to people by damaging the very place we live.

 

Actually there are Green fuels freely available in almost every medium - large town. Eco-Diesel which is partly made up of waste vegetable oils works in almost every modern diesel and TDI without modification. My nearest service station is in Leek, Staffordshire, however oridinary diesel is priced at 83.4p a litre, and green diesel is 82.9p - little saving = little incentive for people to change, now had it been priced realistically at say 65p a litre then watch the queues form!. And for petrol vehicle owners, there is always LPG conversion.

 

BUT, one point that is often overlooked, is that everybody including non motorists are penalised for the pollution of vehicles. Supermarkets are not magically stocked by pixies (apart from in some parts of Derbyshire!) most goods these days arrive by road and that means an increase in fuel prices is clawed back by an increase in the price of goods - so we all pay. This is why for me the Cigs vs Motorist argument never carries any weight, because effectively I am paying one tax as a motorist, and paying another tax when I buy goods which have been transported by road!. Smokers only pay the one tax on their 'pleasure', when they buy tobacco. However, if I go for a Sunday drive and pick up a loaf of bread on the way back - i'm effectively paying twice towards motoring pollution.

[Kingy 0]

I too would welcome a total ban on smoking in public places.

 

It annoys me that when you go for a meal and are sat in the non smoking area you still smell other peoples smoke. Why cant people last a couple of hours without a drag? Its a disgrace.

 

Maybe, diners who smoke should pay a surcharge for the priviledge....

[C.S 0]

Dont understand the problem up here in little old smoke free Norway ! Mind you theres a lot of fart smelling clubs around !

[Kingy 0]

QUOTE (C.S @ Mar 11 2005, 11:29 AM)

Dont understand the problem up here in little old smoke free Norway ! Mind you theres a lot of fart smelling clubs around !

LOL! http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Old School Disco 0]

QUOTE (Chris_Pointon @ Mar 11 2005, 10:14 AM)

If you worked in a factory, with obnoxious fumes, then you would be given protective clothing and perhaps some form of mask. Very soon, I can see a link between smoking related diseases and passive smoking actually being proven, and then employers will suddenly become liable for illnesses caused to their bar / waiting on staff through working in such an environment. Thus, Managers and landlords will have no real option but to ban smoking in their venues in order to protect themselves against liability claims. You think that this may be far fetched?, well, 10 years ago in the UK, nobody even knew what 'No win, No fee' meant http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/smile.gif

I agree with your views to a certain point, but knowing the risks involved with your potential job, would you take it, if offered??

 

I honestly believe that we are being manipulated by certain pressure groups and governments into thinking that some things are more serious than the problem actually is.

 

OK, motorists pay tax on fuel etc... but the amount of carcinagens in Diesel fuel is many times higher than found in cigarettes, but we are expected to put up with this in town centres (effectively and enclosed area!) Many buildings in London are being damaged by fuel emissions, but little is done to stop it. Asthma in children is on the increase (I know, all 3 of mine are) and a link has been established to vehicle emissions, but have the authorities run with this particular baton?? Speed cameras were introduced to reduce road deaths, but are now a cash cow for the authorities. How long before fines are introduced for smoking where you shouldn't??? It'll probably happen, and you probably know it!!

 

If we let this type of legislation go through, where will it end??

 

Finally, I suspect there is more money spent by the NHS on treating alcohol related injuries / deaths. When was the last time we heard of a smoker high on nicotine beating 7 bells out of someone after falling out of a smoking room at 2am in the morning?? When was the last time you heard of someone being nicked for smoking and disorderly??? Are we going to have a drinking ban as well?? (We already have warnings on the ads about drinking responsibly!!) Perhaps we should? That would allow the Police to spend more time on arresting burglars and rapists etc....

 

So, it's ok to go and get bladdered and risk killing someone on the way home in your car or beat the crap out of someone or vandalise your town centre, just don't get caught having a crafty smoke.

 

A little over the top I know, but if we let people dictate to us, and effectively brainwash us, then where will it all end???? I apologise for being over the top in my examples, but we have to be aware of what will happen if we let people walk all over us. From small acorns....etc etc

[Old School Disco 0]

On the subject of LPG. My car runs on that and there is talk of the government increasing the taxation on that as well, so again, why bother?????

 

They want the money!!, Can you imagine your income tax if all of these green options were a fraction of the price of regular fuels. Even more so if people give up the ciggies. Oh my god, how much would a pint cost??? Arrrrrrrrrrrgh That's my only pleasure since I gave up the fags 5 years ago http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/sad.gif

[Award Entertainment 0]

My favourite quote on this topic was:

 

"Having a 'no smoking area' in a bar or restaurant is like having a 'no peeing area' in a swimming pool!"

 

I'm thrilled that the smoking ban came into effect here in New Zealand back in early December 2004 as I've done many years of forced passive smoking. The inner-city pubs don't seem to be suffering from too much visible downturn, but then its summer here, so it's not too bad standing outside having a puff.

 

Winter will certainly be a test for some of them; however I'd expect to see the same thing happening here that happened in California. The bars and clubs had a substantial downturn in business for the first 9 months, but then found that their profit margins sprung back to better than before because a new group of patrons were coming out of the woodwork in addition to their existing group.

 

One bar owner I spoke to recently said he had a lunchtime group of young mothers and their babies in the bar for 2 hours and they each ordered expensive meals and soft-drinks while they were there. He said he’d never considered that group as people who would never go to a smoky bar/café.

[OK KARAOKE 1]

Almost every addict will self-excuse his/her addiction usually along the lines of "Freedom of Choice", "it`s my right", "it`s the only pleasure I get" etc... but what they really mean is; "I can`t get along without it/them and if it means you gotta suffer, then so beit".

When I smoked (40 to 60 a day) I NEVER smoked in cafes or restuarants where people were eating. And I wouldn`t tolerate someone smoking next to me when I was eating - to the extent that on a couple of occasions I stubbed out the person`s cigarette in their tea / coffee.

I smoked for 44 years and have to say that I spent more than 20 of those years desperately trying to pack `em in.

Now I`ve done it I don`t want to breathe someone else`s stink so yes, I will give a 10% discount for a booking at a non-smoking venue.

---

Go to a smoker`s house (or the local pub/club). What colour is the ceiling?? It ain`t white, is it? (unless it`s just been painted). It`s yellow or brown - that`s the smoke. And that`s what your lungs are like.

 

[C.S 0]

Update 1 year and 3 months on.

 

Norway - over 300 establishments with drinks licences gone bankrupt or closed in the last 6 months.

As a dj its great not to have clubs filled with smoke but its not great to be balancing on the edge all the time knowing that if you play the wrong record then at least half your dancefloor will be off out the door for a fag. On days with bad weather, clubs are nearly empty as people prefer to party at home. In fact in Norway where there is a high percentage of smokers this is expected to hail the closure of at least another 25% of todays existing clubs\pubs\restaurants and many places now choosing to save money by opting not to not hire djs,remove dancefloors and install computer systems which play pre programmed music (not illegal here) . Only the best djs are working as much as before and in some towns the price of dj entertainment is falling . Mind you I do smell nice when i get home at night !

Edited August 22, 2005 by C.S

[Award Entertainment 0]

Update, New Zealand, 9 months after the law change and in the middle of Winter. No really noticeable effect on bars or patronage. I'm not aware of any bars that were previously going well that are now struggling. My Winter residency is every bit as busy as last year.

 

People seem happy so sit outside in the cold, so many bars have outdoor seating where possible and have obviously had to invest in outdoor gas heating to keep the smokers warm. Many bars and function centres are now installing particle-sensing smoke alarms, so fog machines are rapidly dying out too.

 

I'd say the law change has been an exceptional success here and it's been generally very well received.

[damo1023 0]

QUOTE (Chris_Pointon @ Mar 11 2005, 10:14 AM)

QUOTE Please don't take this the wrong way mate, but surely being a DJ, means that smelling of ciggy's / dealing with smokers, is an occupational hazard?   If you worked in a factory, with obnoxious fumes, then you would be given protective clothing and perhaps some form of mask. Very soon, I can see a link between smoking related diseases and passive smoking actually being proven, and then employers will suddenly become liable for illnesses caused to their bar / waiting on staff through working in such an environment. Thus, Managers and landlords will have no real option but to ban smoking in their venues in order to protect themselves against liability claims. You think that this may be far fetched?, well, 10 years ago in the UK, nobody even knew what 'No win, No fee' meant :)   Ever seen the fan and insides of your lighting effect after a years work?, and the sticky tar residues on the PCB's and heatsinks of your Amplifier?, well you are working in the same environment and at exactly the same venues as your gear!, so the chances are, that you are breathing in the same matter.   totally agreed with you on this chris, if you work in a garage you need protective equipment by law. you choose to be there however you dont expect to be injured or have illness caused where it is avoidable. why should it be any different when it comes to smoking related problems. i worked in a niteclub 4 sometimes 5 days a week and being a non smoker in a non smoking house i couldnt bear the smell of it on certain nights. it sits on your clothes and your person.   my brother is quite a heavy smoker and he has payed the price for doing it in front of his equipment. the build up of crap on his mixer and amp have caused all sorts of problems resulting in him needing new equipment over the years.   a ban on smoking in all public places may not be the way forward and yes it may have an impact on the businesses that rely on the custom of smokers. how ever i think that even one smoke free night a week would be a positive thingas the smell coming from some pubs in the evenings is enough for me to want to pack up and go home.   i am quite anti smoking partly due to having asthma and seeing how much grief my parents went through to give up after being long term smokers.

[jackcu 0]

I have this discussion in my local pub almost every time I go there. It's an old coaching inn, over 400 years old - low ceilings, quite small, and it's a nightmare when people smoke. You can be there for 5 mins and reek of the stuff. Just to put my cards on the table, I used to be a 40 a-day smoker but gave up 15 years ago.

 

At present I adopt the attitude of "I know the place is smoky and no-one forces me to go there", therefore I don't stand at the bar coughing and complaining. However, the ban WILL happen - in Scotland it looks like it will be more across the board than in England and Wales.

 

When the subject comes up, the owner always gives me the "doom and gloom" stories about how most of his regulars are smokers and how it will kill his business. However, most of his regulars NEVER drink at home. They are from the generation that believes only alcoholics drink at home. They are happy to sit in the pub 7 nights a week spending hundreds of pounds a week, but would frown at anyone who has a few cans of beer in the fridge. There is no way these people are going to stop going to the pub - it is their life. But like I said, discussing whether it is right or wrong is becoming futile - it's going to happen anyway. Will it affect trade? Probably. But consider this - I know loads of people who never go into the local pubs because they are so smoky, but are happy to take their kids into some of the non smoking pubs in town. Some smokers may stay at home, but some people who currently stay at home will come into the pubs. They just need to make people want to come out.

 

Personally, I think the biggest threat to pubs and clubs is the cheap prices of alcohol in supermarkets. Where is the huge "anti-supermarket" lobby?

 

A final thought - smokers are in the minority - at most of the gigs I've played at in the last few years, I would say smokers have made up no more than 10% of the guests. Maybe it's different in pubs and clubs, but at private parties I'd say 10% is the most I've seen - so where's the problem?

 

Cheers,

 

Jack.

[High Fidelity 0]

I've really really tried to keep my mouth shut on this, honest. But I just can't keep it in any longer.

 

http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/1106.gif

At the moment I am a smoker and I for one have brought up the point of smoking and non-smoking areas in pubs before. How come, when I go into the local town centre pub which has a large non-smoking area and a little smoking area, that I can't have a seat because the smoking area is full and the non-smoking area is nearly empty. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/533.gif All it needs is proper ventilation. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/wallbash.gif http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/wallbash.gif

 

I recently did 2 weddings at the same venue about 4 weeks apart.

 

The first one was a fantastic night with all the guests staying right to the end. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/thumbup.gif

 

When I came to do the second one, the management had decided to make the room no-smoking. I spent most of the night playing to a half empty room because they were all outside. Not just the smokers, but their friends as well, so they could continue their conversations. Ended the night with only about 10 guests left. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/wallbash.gif http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/wallbash.gif

 

The last thing I'm going to rant about is the Holier Than Thou reformed smoker. There's nothing worse than someone who has packed in, then calls anybody that does smoke. It really gets up my nose. (excuse the pun)

 

Off Rant

 

As it happens, from this Saturday the 27th. I will be a non-smoker http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/thumbup.gif (with the help of Zyban and the smoking cesation clinic at the doctors). I'm doing it for my health first, and the money second.

 

But I will never try to force my will as a non smoker on to somebody else who does smoke.

 

I would expect people to be civilised as I am at the moment. ie: don't smoke in somebody elses house unless they do, don't smoke near people eating, try to keep my smoke away from others that don't smoke.

 

Oooh, I feel worn out now, think I better get back to work for a rest.

[jackcu 0]

I hope I didn't come across as "holier than thou".

 

I stopped smoking because I knew that if I didn't do it when I did, that I would smoke for the rest of my life and my health would suffer. I have absolutely no problem with anyone who smokes in a bar - like I said, my local is a VERY smoky place and I CHOOSE to drink there, because I like the place and I like the people that drink (and smoke) there. I will say one thing, however, about the mentality of some smokers. I was on holiday in Spain a few weeks ago and spent a few nights in the hotel's night club. It was AMAZING to see the number of smokers stubbing their fags out on the carpet and the dancefloor. Even when sitting at a table with an ashtray in front of them I saw several people choose to drop their fag on the carpet at their feet. I know it's not all smokers - I'd never have done this when I was smoking, but I just wonder what is going through these people's minds?

 

Preaching will never make anyone stop - when friends / family used to challenge me about my smoking it made me smoke more. You can only ever stop because you want to stop.

 

Good luck with quitting :)

 

Jack.

[High Fidelity 0]

QUOTE

I hope I didn't come across as "holier than thou".

 

Certainly not Jack.

 

QUOTE

Preaching will never make anyone stop - when friends / family used to challenge me about my smoking it made me smoke more. You can only ever stop because you want to stop.

 

Nagging and mithering won't either. Encouragement and support are the best way.

 

So what did my wife say to me tonight:

 

"I hope you'll have this room all finished when I come home after the weekend. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/wallbash.gif http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/wallbash.gif

[Award Entertainment 0]

QUOTE (High Fidelity @ Aug 24 2005, 01:18 AM)

the smoking area is full and the non-smoking area is nearly empty. All it needs is proper ventilation.

I respect your opinion on all of those points, but as I said earlier, having a no-smoking area in a room (regardless of ventilation) is exactly the same as having a no-peeing section in a swimming pool. It's that simple.

 

QUOTE (High Fidelity)

The last thing I'm going to rant about is the Holier Than Thou reformed smoker. There's nothing worse than someone who has packed in, then calls anybody that does smoke.

Why does that bother you? the ex-smoker (not 'reformed' smoker) has been where you are now and has now experienced both sides of the problem. Shouldn't the ex-smoker be absolutely best person to have a balanced opinion? Does it bother you that they've managed to get the monkey off their backs and you are still to go through that challenge perhaps?

 

QUOTE (High Fidelity)

I will never try to force my will as a non smoker on to somebody else who does smoke.

And yet it's OK to expect non-smokers to have smoke forced upon them in a social environment? Seems a little contradictory, don't you think?

 

Good luck with getting off the habit. It's not easy and I think the biggest tip I could give is to work out what your exact smoking triggers are and replace a smoke with something else while you go through the early stages. I discreetly smoked a pencil for a couple of weeks, but it helped get me out of the need to hold something during those trigger moments.

[ian 0]

I've been reading this discussion and I'm starting to think that I might be a bit unusual. Most of my friends do not smoke so if we're going out for a meal, for example, it's easy for us - we only go to places which are non-smoking. I can't remember the last time someone's been smoking near me when I'm eating.

 

When I'm DJ-ing, most venues seem to have few smokers there either. In fact, a promoter I DJ-ed for on Saturday night actually brought in a no smoking policy at all his events about a year ago. He said that he got several complaints when he started doing it, but numbers haven't really changed and even a lot of the people who complained still turn up. He feels his events are better than the competition and so people will put up with a no smoking policy at his events.

 

Thinking about this a bit more, I tend to play more in clubs/bars than in halls or pubs, so there's probably more space for the smoke to go to, plus air-conditioning. Another thing is that I'm usually right next to the dancefloor and most places I play have a no drinks and no smoking on the dancefloor policy. So most of the smoking happens in the bar area, away from me.

 

But I also think things need to be kept in perspective. I know many people who don't smoke because they say they care about their health, but are fairly overweight, which can cause the same shortening of their life that smoking can!

[jackcu 0]

QUOTE (ian @ Aug 24 2005, 09:53 AM)

But I also think things need to be kept in perspective. I know many people who don't smoke because they say they care about their health, but are fairly overweight, which can cause the same shortening of their life that smoking can!

That's true to some extent, but when I saw my doctor before I stopped smoking I made great play of the fact that I was taking exercise (marathon running), was eating healthily, had my weight under control, etc. He told me to stop kidding myself - I think the way he put it was, "that's like a man who plays Russian roulette twice a day, every day for 20 years telling me he's safe because he's a vegetarian." In other words, you can't really equate the risks. Sure, being obese will make loads of health dangers more likely, but the damage caused by smoking outweighs them by a huge margin.

 

Consider this - 50% of all smokers will die because of their habit.

 

Damn - I said I wouldn't do that LOL.

 

Good luck to anyone who wishes to quit - it can be done :)

 

Jack.

[Eskie 0]

QUOTE (ian @ Aug 24 2005, 10:53 AM)

But I also think things need to be kept in perspective.  I know many people who don't smoke because they say they care about their health, but are fairly overweight, which can cause the same shortening of their life that smoking can!

Yeah but a fattie who keeps stuffing jam tarts down their gob every day ain't gonna kill everyone around 'em is it http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/rolleyes.gif

 

 

...well, unless he falls on 'em http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/whistling.gif

Edited August 24, 2005 by Eskie

[ian 0]

QUOTE (jackcu @ Aug 24 2005, 03:39 PM)

QUOTE (ian @ Aug 24 2005, 09:53 AM) But I also think things need to be kept in perspective.  I know many people who don't smoke because they say they care about their health, but are fairly overweight, which can cause the same shortening of their life that smoking can! That's true to some extent, but when I saw my doctor before I stopped smoking I made great play of the fact that I was taking exercise (marathon running), was eating healthily, had my weight under control, etc. He told me to stop kidding myself - I think the way he put it was, "that's like a man who plays Russian roulette twice a day, every day for 20 years telling me he's safe because he's a vegetarian." In other words, you can't really equate the risks. Sure, being obese will make loads of health dangers more likely, but the damage caused by smoking outweighs them by a huge margin.   Consider this - 50% of all smokers will die because of their habit. Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying it's okay to smoke if you go running every night - or anything like that. I was just noting that obesity can take as many years off your life as smoking (according to some researchers). There seems to be, for the first time, a decline in predicted life expectancy in the US due to increasing rates of obesity.

[ChrisPointon 0]

Believe it or not, One of the biggest health risks and indirect causes of premature death, reduced quality of life and ill health is actually STRESS, but it is also still one of the least publicised.

 

Research recently commissioned by the International Stress Management AssociationUK (ISMA) and Royal & SunAlliance (R&SA) reveals that 70% of UK adults have experienced stress in the workplace. Nearly half (49%) of those who experienced stress at work, indicated that it had increased over the last 12 months.

 

ISMA's Carole Spiers, Chair of the National Stress Awareness Committee, said: "This is the third year that we have conducted research on UK stress levels, and the figures of seven out of ten working adults experiencing stress at levels likely to impact their health make shocking reading.

 

Research has also found a ten-fold increase in stress related disorders including sleep related and digestive disorders. A third of absences from the workplace are also said to be directly stress related.

 

What people need to understand is that stress isn't something that will simply go away if left to its own devices, and many people may not even recognise the warning signs.

 

One of the interesting findings of the research, for example, is that if young people are suffering from stress, one in three of them will call a friend to talk about it - a vital coping strategy that anyone could benefit from. Yet these figures fall to less than one on ten as people get older - indicating that stress is something that they are reluctant to admit to. That simply can't continue if we're going to tackle stress effectively